Dovster

Was SkyPesos planned? If it wasn't, then Delta was blind to what it is doing.

I made this post in 2003:

mshachar

8.you get to run through the security ringer

StayingHomeIsBetter

Prescience... Ladies' man and prognosticator. I am increasingly in awe of your reputation. How much of it is true?

Dovster

Everything except the good parts.

elitetraveler

Well I was trying to book my daughter JFK-ARN-JFK with SP and DL wanted 180,000 miles in Y as a 'Medium' Level. I retrenched and got her a 60k RT award on BA with multiple flights to choose from on her day of departure.

Does anybody know what a 'High' RT Y US-Europe would be? It seemed a bit crazy. Glad I am down to 60k miles left w DL.

GUWonder

STO-NYC-STO trips this summer have cost me less than $650 all-in for the roundtrip coach ticket, even on ARN-JFK-ARN itineraries with all flights operated by DL.

180,000 miles for a simple roundtrip covering the same flights is a rip-off, but this is DL management doing what it does.

MisterNice

You forgot the TSA drill.

MisterNice

majorwibi

Lets not just be one sided on this
1. Increasing fuel costs
2. Increasing labor costs
3. Glut of new LCCs to the market

FreequentFlier

Regarding the OP's "conspiracy", I'm not so sure it's really a conspiracy. The ability to redeem low mileage awards seems to reflect the Skypesos theory.

N231LA

Other than fuel costs, I think you will find that labor costs per seat mile have actually gone down because of increased productivity, i.e. one gate agent instead of three, Bangladesh reservation centers, etc.

And as far as the LLC's, the frequent flyer programs were initiated to counter the low fares of LLC's by trying to build loyalty albeit at higher fares, i.e. PeopleExpress 1981, DL FF Program 1981, etc. The LLC's have always sold price, while Delta sells a higher fare with supposed higher service and a reward for loyalty. Diminishing the reward diminishes part of the reasoning for charging higher fares than the LLC's.

So, bottom line - DL sells itself as a premium product but continues to slide into being nothing but a Lower Cost Carrier.

ffI

Whatever you may say, the LCCs are not for me. Where else can I get a F seat domestically for the cost of a T fare?
Even my son (gifted SM) has been upgraded from WAS to SFO. This tells me the economy is really bad and that DL (and other legacies) are still hurting and the best time to be an elite is right now.

If I earn double the miles even from flying as a GM+ (and 25% more with DM) I expect to spend a bit more in miles for the free tickets. If I earn in Pesos I should expect to spend in Pesos.
I am also not sure if the whole structure of the FF programs based on miles flown was well thought out and the legacies have raised the expectations so high that they are having problems and DL is trying to wean FF gradually.

Onepass was known as Nonepass and we shall see if the new 800 lb gorilla agrees with DL or stays the same. US already has a 3 tier structure. I have been on US and given a choice of a nonstop will always go DL. I stayed with US as the upgrades were free and got double miles for any *A flight (nonstops are more from WAS), but may jump to CO for free upgrades and status match this year.

LALAland

One thing I don't get with most folks here that throw around terms like skypiles and skypesos (funny as they are) are the same ones who are always advising posters to demand miles for broken seats and what nots... if they are so worthless then why bother? I demand ecerts, and almost always get them. I totally agree that SMs have been devalued on purpose by DL, but like another poster pointed out, DL is selling seats to folks who don't want to 'waste' miles. The 'waste' is to not use them. That is what DL wants you to do. If you "earn" 100,000 miles a year simply by using a credit card, then don't fret about spending them. You were going to charge that gas anyway, right? And if you "earn" 3,900 miles sending flowers you had to send anyway, that's 'free' miles. I think that some people look at their milage balance and forget (as in my case) half the miles were free, and then they discombobulate in their head that they really "earned" all those miles. So (in my case) if the reward tix I want is 50,000 miles, I just remind myself that the 100% mark up is them taking back my free miles... so what. It is a state of mind.

Another poster pointed out that DL knows the flights are full, which is mostly true. So if you owned DL, wouldn't you do the same? If most of your flights were full of paying PAX, wouldn't you be happy?

My point is that DL, like every other huge company, simply doesn't care. AND look at who is DL favorite bedfellow -- the nastiest hooker on the (wall)street -- AMEX; who, by the way, wrote the playbook for DL on how to cheat the customer and devalued SMs and are now even devaluing the whole system with MQM give-a-ways. Hell, I can literally make GM status without ever flying even a inch. Why do you think they came up with the DM level? Because, thanks to AMEX too many SMs were making GM and too many GMs were making PM. So thay had to add DM to make us have to fly DL more if we wanted top tier and be able to trump the next guy on the UG list. What a bunch of 'fake cheese' most just gobbled up.

But we all continue to play the game, why? Because we think a policy is a promise and the next "promise" they make, we will all expect them to keep it, WHICH THEY WON'T. Then we will have something else to gripe about and forget that they 'done this before'. Take rollover miles... my guess is that will either get canceled or changed with a new policy over time -or- a Y seat from ATL-MEM will cost 500,000 miles. In the end, just don't call their program policies "promises" and you will all sleep better at night. Meanwhile, take what you can and if you don't like it move on. Like I said, DL simply doesn't care so long as we continue to play (and pay) with them. And let's face it, most of us are too drunk on the DL punch to drive to the next terminal and get on another airline ---which truth be told, is doing pretty much the same thing as DL.

Personally, I'm saving up my miles to go out with a bang -- like take my whole family of 7 on a 777LR in FC to Sydney, or something crazy like that -- I won't even care how many miles I'm spending. With the thin margins on most flights, 7 non-rev FC seats on a run like that will likley make the difference wheather or not that flight made any profit. Then it is adiós to the pesos.

Seriousness aside... the thing I love most about FT is there is still humor in world... there is some seriously funny posts on this thread!

RealHJ

Miles gotten on credit card spending are certainly not free though. SMs one gets on AmEx spending carry a heavy opportunity cost. One could have used the far superior US Bank FlexPerks CC (and save a lot of headaches of not having to deal with AmEx's awful anti-customer service, if it ever comes to that) and have gotten actual valuable FlexPoints that carry a $0.01-$0.02 CPP value and are good for any flight on any airline: a lot more valuable, and flexible, than SkyPesos.

AmEx and DL know that. Heck, even AmEx's own reps tell their customers how bad SkyPesos are and try to entice them to switch to a non-DL AmEx card! That is why so many MQMs are given away by AmEx, which is the only reason that's likely keeping most people hooked on an otherwise not-worth-very-much card and program.

pmaddock

Any tips you'd like to offer here? I just had a quadruple incident on my last flt and they offered 14K miles. When I read your comment suddenly I realize that maybe I should push back.

milst1

I'd jump ship in a second if I could, but ST dominates NYC-AMS non-stop. I got the status match from CO but I've only managed to fly CO once because the times don't work for me as well.

I should hit DM later this year, but all of my travel is TATL, so I get fewer upgrades than a SM who flies domestically. Ick, indeed. I know, I get access to the amazing lounges, complete with the stale cookies as in BOS on Sunday.

Do any airlines offer the occasional TATL upgrade? At this point I would be ecstatic if I scored 1 upgrade out of 20 TATL legs, just as a sop. Like a free shrimp cocktail after buying 100 burgers. Last year I got op-upped on about 7 out of 40 TATL legs. This year, nada, 0-for-about 20. I don't know, maybe DM will help. Will it?