Booking / Award search engine updated [18 May]
May 18, 2010, 7:30 am
#31
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 15
Please post examples here
ATL- ACC non-stop economy - 80K 09/2010
ATL-ACC via KLM Business class - 120K 03/2011
ATL-MBJ non-stop economy (3 people) 35K each 07/2010
Okay the one that I really would like to do is ATL-JNB for June 2010 but it is still showing RED RED RED = 190k for coach!!! I guess no world cup for
me
ATL- ACC non-stop economy - 80K 09/2010
ATL-ACC via KLM Business class - 120K 03/2011
ATL-MBJ non-stop economy (3 people) 35K each 07/2010
Okay the one that I really would like to do is ATL-JNB for June 2010 but it is still showing RED RED RED = 190k for coach!!! I guess no world cup for
me
May 18, 2010, 7:35 am
#32
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: on the path to perdition
Programs: Delta, United
Posts: 4,782
May 18, 2010, 7:40 am
#34
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 15
May 18, 2010, 7:45 am
#35
Join Date: Oct 2008
Programs: NWA Tears
Posts: 979
Looked at award options for several potential trips through end of year. 0 low, 29 med, 32 high.
SMI:
1) Use NWA.com as a model and give us that functionality and UI.
2) Increase award availability to something reasonable.
SMI:
1) Use NWA.com as a model and give us that functionality and UI.
2) Increase award availability to something reasonable.
May 18, 2010, 7:52 am
#36
Join Date: Oct 2009
Programs: Delta - GM
Posts: 171
Interface has changed slightly; suckiness of award inventory remains intact.
Desired award flight: IAD-AMS in C; 6/16 departure, 6/30 return. Would have been a lead-pipe cinch on NWA.COM, and which would have also included AF and KL inventory.
DL's meager offerings (and only DL flights appear; I guess Skyteam exists only in theory and not in practice) range from a low of 150k with a 7-hour layover in JFK, to a high of 225k connecting in ATL. In between are mostly flights where the first leg is in Y, to include one via MSP with another 7 hour layover. Gee, how about a direct KL flight, or AF via CDG?
I hope there wasn't a lot of effort put into this; the results don't reflect it.
Desired award flight: IAD-AMS in C; 6/16 departure, 6/30 return. Would have been a lead-pipe cinch on NWA.COM, and which would have also included AF and KL inventory.
DL's meager offerings (and only DL flights appear; I guess Skyteam exists only in theory and not in practice) range from a low of 150k with a 7-hour layover in JFK, to a high of 225k connecting in ATL. In between are mostly flights where the first leg is in Y, to include one via MSP with another 7 hour layover. Gee, how about a direct KL flight, or AF via CDG?
I hope there wasn't a lot of effort put into this; the results don't reflect it.
According to expertflyer AF does not have award availability on those dates. Therefore the Delta award engine doesn't show those flights. Can't look up KLM.
May 18, 2010, 7:56 am
#38
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 401
LAS--FAI/ATL/AMM/JFK are no different than last week.
To get best routings to FAI on AS, still have to use the multi-city tab.
To JFK in December, using the green boxes on the calendar still yields 32.5K or 40K awards.
One routing to AMM in December shows a low of 125K awards on the first page, but then shows 105K when I complete the itinerary. Also, it shows AF having a flight CDG--AMM, but no return on several different days. By contrast, I have no problem going to CO and pulling up 75K going through LHR and connecting to BD.
In sum, I don't see improvements in inventory, the accuracy of the calendar or including partner airline flights without going to multi-city and running through a matrix of possiblities.
But it was nice to dream for at least a few days.
To get best routings to FAI on AS, still have to use the multi-city tab.
To JFK in December, using the green boxes on the calendar still yields 32.5K or 40K awards.
One routing to AMM in December shows a low of 125K awards on the first page, but then shows 105K when I complete the itinerary. Also, it shows AF having a flight CDG--AMM, but no return on several different days. By contrast, I have no problem going to CO and pulling up 75K going through LHR and connecting to BD.
In sum, I don't see improvements in inventory, the accuracy of the calendar or including partner airline flights without going to multi-city and running through a matrix of possiblities.
But it was nice to dream for at least a few days.
Last edited by gogreyhound; May 18, 2010 at 10:08 pm
May 18, 2010, 8:10 am
#39
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Chicago
Programs: UA 1K, HH Diamond
Posts: 2,055
Remember there are two main categories to the award calendar issues:
1. overall actual award availability
2. the award calendar IT problems and search functionality issues
It seems Delta may be tinkering with the interface/functionality first.
1. overall actual award availability
2. the award calendar IT problems and search functionality issues
It seems Delta may be tinkering with the interface/functionality first.
May 18, 2010, 8:17 am
#40
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,531
What a sick joke. Sample bookings for Tues-Tues and Weds-Weds in March 2011:
"Green Dates" offer me DTW-AMS in C for 140,000 via ATL, the first leg in coach.
"Yellow Dates" offer me DTW-ATL-AMS in C for 100,000.
Of course, I can have DTW-AMS non-stop for 200,000
Pathetic
"Green Dates" offer me DTW-AMS in C for 140,000 via ATL, the first leg in coach.
"Yellow Dates" offer me DTW-ATL-AMS in C for 100,000.
Of course, I can have DTW-AMS non-stop for 200,000
Pathetic
May 18, 2010, 8:19 am
#41
Join Date: Nov 2007
Programs: DL GM, WN AL/CP, UA Silver, Marriott Lifetime Titanium
Posts: 1,483
I have been running some mock award reservations since the release of the WSJ article and have noticed that a few days after the story broke the availability of low price international awards have increased significantly.
The increase in availability seems to extend six months into the future but not beyond...
I tested the new award reservation system today and they are still there - good job Delta - hope it continues
The increase in availability seems to extend six months into the future but not beyond...
I tested the new award reservation system today and they are still there - good job Delta - hope it continues
Available for 25k most every date on AA, UA, CO.
May 18, 2010, 8:36 am
#42
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: JFK,ATL,LGA (the rest of the world follows)
Programs: DL KM/DM/2MM (NH Plat emeritus, CO Plat emeritus, and no place like home)
Posts: 3,190
Rolling changes feedback
Good morning SMI, and other following DL/skymiles insiders.
I did notice the change, and tested it along with few fellows. The engine seems to be more stable. Thank you. Now, I do not need to hit 'restart' several times. However, I have to second and repeat several previous concerns:
***Is it available? The answer is no:
I have to second the concern regarding the awards availability. It is notable that the awards availability is limited to medium/high on several routes (TPAC,TATL, middle east) regardless of the point of origin for the travel.
As a matter of fact, you have been 'charging' more miles for a JFK-CDG then you charge for Asia-CDG. Something like 160,000+ miles. As a matter of fact, the engine seems to charge even more than the common charges for a RTW trip. Half a cynical idea: maybe one should start using miles to book back-to-back round the world tickets and would get cheaper award seats...
***The mileage calculation charges needs a revisit to avoid charging BE (over priced, if I may add) rate for a coach seat:
The award calender marks (And charges) segments as BE award, when they are coach. My favorite, charging 245K for a TLV-ATL-JFK, where the ATL-JFK is in first, and the TLV-ATL is in coach (sorry, corrected a typo from before...) . It shows up once selecting a BE award request, and it shows up even if I mark "I am one of the passengers" (medalliion). It also happens on TPAC flights.
***Connections are broken. Its a failing grade:
The combinations for the awards are still in the unsatisfactory level. It would take a lot to convince me that the only availability on a connecting flight from ATL to LGA, for any reason, shape or form (three months into the future) would be with 20, 18 or even 12 hours connection time. I doubt it is even an issue of inventory release. I tend to believe it is an issue of the calender. If it is a revenue mgt/seat release issue, then the problem is far greater than we, as passengers are aware of. In such case, bring the revenue mgt people to the table. Having zero seats availability for award connections on ATL-LGA mid day, 3 months+ into the future suggests a big problem. I asked a fellow whether this problem seem to exist also for other hubs (i.e. ATL-MSP). Seems that the answer is positive.
***I do not trust the cost calculation, AKA- The missing/hidden costs:
Clearly, there are hidden costs associated with charges on travel in other airlines booked through the award engine above and beyond the partner airline fee and taxes. Travel on AF, on top of the miles charges, goes for $250
+ in taxes and fees. I look for the same combinations on BE for payment and the taxes do not near the same amount. If you have doubts, try booking (selected examples); JFK-CDG-TLV-CDG-JFK, JFK-ATL-CDG-TLV-CDG-JFK, etc. You have a hidden fee of approximately 110 dollars if not more in certain combinations. It is not the first time I see that. It makes the fees structure questionable.
***Hidden costs (#2): Charging different rates (miles) for medallion and non medallion members.
I get different rates on various routes (i.e. TLV-JFK-TLV, or vice a versa), direct and with connections, on DL and through partners, for a RT BE award. When I am logged in, I am offered in several cases a higher price (in miles), though lower in fees. So, the calender seem to account well for booking fee. But, either you have a hidden higher cost of miles for medallion passengers, or a 'glitch' in the engine. Either one does not seem to be acceptable, and it is a repeating problem. SMI has stated that it is a bug and that there is no hidden policy about it. But, at the moment, I have examples of more than 55,000 additional miles requested. Here is one of them:
Not logged: TLV-ATL-JFK-AMS-TLV (May/20,June/2/2010), 120,000 miles and 253 dollars in fees.
Logged: TLV-ATL-JFK-AMS-TLV (May/20,June/2/2010), 175,000 miles and ~105 in fees.
I would keep testing the award calender (both logged in as a medallion and not logged in).
I thank you for working on it, but these errors hurt the credibility of the skymiles rewards. Please work them out to assure the growth of the program.
DLroads (this week, only trains, though)
I did notice the change, and tested it along with few fellows. The engine seems to be more stable. Thank you. Now, I do not need to hit 'restart' several times. However, I have to second and repeat several previous concerns:
***Is it available? The answer is no:
I have to second the concern regarding the awards availability. It is notable that the awards availability is limited to medium/high on several routes (TPAC,TATL, middle east) regardless of the point of origin for the travel.
As a matter of fact, you have been 'charging' more miles for a JFK-CDG then you charge for Asia-CDG. Something like 160,000+ miles. As a matter of fact, the engine seems to charge even more than the common charges for a RTW trip. Half a cynical idea: maybe one should start using miles to book back-to-back round the world tickets and would get cheaper award seats...
***The mileage calculation charges needs a revisit to avoid charging BE (over priced, if I may add) rate for a coach seat:
The award calender marks (And charges) segments as BE award, when they are coach. My favorite, charging 245K for a TLV-ATL-JFK, where the ATL-JFK is in first, and the TLV-ATL is in coach (sorry, corrected a typo from before...) . It shows up once selecting a BE award request, and it shows up even if I mark "I am one of the passengers" (medalliion). It also happens on TPAC flights.
***Connections are broken. Its a failing grade:
The combinations for the awards are still in the unsatisfactory level. It would take a lot to convince me that the only availability on a connecting flight from ATL to LGA, for any reason, shape or form (three months into the future) would be with 20, 18 or even 12 hours connection time. I doubt it is even an issue of inventory release. I tend to believe it is an issue of the calender. If it is a revenue mgt/seat release issue, then the problem is far greater than we, as passengers are aware of. In such case, bring the revenue mgt people to the table. Having zero seats availability for award connections on ATL-LGA mid day, 3 months+ into the future suggests a big problem. I asked a fellow whether this problem seem to exist also for other hubs (i.e. ATL-MSP). Seems that the answer is positive.
***I do not trust the cost calculation, AKA- The missing/hidden costs:
Clearly, there are hidden costs associated with charges on travel in other airlines booked through the award engine above and beyond the partner airline fee and taxes. Travel on AF, on top of the miles charges, goes for $250
+ in taxes and fees. I look for the same combinations on BE for payment and the taxes do not near the same amount. If you have doubts, try booking (selected examples); JFK-CDG-TLV-CDG-JFK, JFK-ATL-CDG-TLV-CDG-JFK, etc. You have a hidden fee of approximately 110 dollars if not more in certain combinations. It is not the first time I see that. It makes the fees structure questionable.
***Hidden costs (#2): Charging different rates (miles) for medallion and non medallion members.
I get different rates on various routes (i.e. TLV-JFK-TLV, or vice a versa), direct and with connections, on DL and through partners, for a RT BE award. When I am logged in, I am offered in several cases a higher price (in miles), though lower in fees. So, the calender seem to account well for booking fee. But, either you have a hidden higher cost of miles for medallion passengers, or a 'glitch' in the engine. Either one does not seem to be acceptable, and it is a repeating problem. SMI has stated that it is a bug and that there is no hidden policy about it. But, at the moment, I have examples of more than 55,000 additional miles requested. Here is one of them:
Not logged: TLV-ATL-JFK-AMS-TLV (May/20,June/2/2010), 120,000 miles and 253 dollars in fees.
Logged: TLV-ATL-JFK-AMS-TLV (May/20,June/2/2010), 175,000 miles and ~105 in fees.
I would keep testing the award calender (both logged in as a medallion and not logged in).
I thank you for working on it, but these errors hurt the credibility of the skymiles rewards. Please work them out to assure the growth of the program.
DLroads (this week, only trains, though)
Last edited by DLroads; May 18, 2010 at 7:26 pm Reason: ADDED NOTE
May 18, 2010, 8:46 am
#43
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Phoenix
Programs: DL Million Miler, Skymiles GM, Marriott Lifetime Platinum Elite
Posts: 677
All hat and no cattle?
I appreciate the fact that someone at DL is finally getting around to addressing what has been a huge issue with the majority. However, I think we are all clamoring for SUBSTANTIVE change, not window dressing.
If the latest upgrade for the customer interface is simply putting a fresh coat of paint on the same condemned building, who cares? All this means is that I can get the same 200K miles "Low" award faster.
Let us know when the root cause is going to be addressed - the availability of Low awards as well as a 100% reliable means to access and book them.
May 18, 2010, 9:04 am
#44
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: AUS
Programs: AA Exec Platinum/MM, DL Gold/MM, Hilton Diamond, Accor Platinum, Hertz Presidents Circle
Posts: 6,960
We're still light years from the old NW booking engine. The changes, although mostly positive, seem trivial and cosmetic. We still cannot:
Not very impressive for the world's biggest airline (for now).
- Search by price/schedule on revenue flights. DL is the only airline that does not offer this functionality. All others have had this for years.
- Search for awards leg by leg and see the miles required for each leg.
- See the miles required for both F and Y awards at the same time.
- See a worldwide award mileage chart.
Not very impressive for the world's biggest airline (for now).
May 18, 2010, 9:10 am
#45
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Chicago
Programs: UA 1K, HH Diamond
Posts: 2,055
We're still light years from the old NW booking engine. The changes, although mostly positive, seem trivial and cosmetic. We still cannot:
Not very impressive for the world's biggest airline (for now).
- Search by price/schedule on revenue flights. DL is the only airline that does not offer this functionality. All others have had this for years.
- Search for awards leg by leg and see the miles required for each leg.
- See the miles required for both F and Y awards at the same time.
- See a worldwide award mileage chart.
Not very impressive for the world's biggest airline (for now).