The thread is sticky because one of the two defining characteristics of the SM program is the complete lack of competitiveness on Int'l UGs. For most frequent international flyers, UGs are incredibly important and most of the other threads on the posts are of very little interest or importance.

Guess you don't fly international much or else do it in J on someone else's nickel!

Guess you do not read much, have never looked a decade back before your own registration on FT in 2009, or have any clue as to what I have posted on this subject ad nauseum. My position over that tme has always been clear. I do not wish to see those on LUT fares ever get a crack at upgradng on int'l flights (op up's are okay) I would lke it if DL knocked down the fare class by a peg or two for long haul int'l travel, but that is it.

Regarding the rest of your rant, I fly DL long haul transatlantically and regularly since they had a TA network probably more than anyone else on this board and have never let a 991, PMU, SWU or other international upgrade instrument lie unused and use them more often then not on my family and personal trips. Then again had you really ever taken the trouble to know this board and the history of this subject you would not need me to tell you that.

Well, this has been a disappointing read.

I've flown 6 TATL and 2 TPAC in the last 6 months on DL with the hope that I would figure out the secret incantation to start getting upgrades only to read this thread and realize I've been flying the wrong airline this whole time.

All of these flights are for business, but it's my company, and I can't justify spending Delta YBM-fare prices with the amount the rest of my team and I travel.

I did SFO-FCO last week and it cost me $1200 for T, M was around 3k and Y at 4 so I don't understand folks saying upgradeable fares are only slightly higher.

I think this thread is an excellent idea, as it make for a single place for these posts to go, instead of some people hijacking every other thread over with rants on the need for LUT SWUs.

Otherwise, I'm with hfly.

So tell us the secret. What routes, when, how much in advance did you book, what was the fare and fare basis. When you fly for business, what fare does your company pay for? What is your upgrade percentage when you are not on a J fare? If there is a way to fly business on DL without spending a ton of money, all of us would like to hear it.

Spurious questions I see. What is a ton of money? It would seem to many in this debate that $1 over a T fare is a ton of money........I do not think I ever have things bought and paid for more than 14 days out, let alone 7, so as has been proven time and time again in these threads the M fare is generally as good or better deal that UA or CO in such situations. If I were a teacher or something , flew once a year and could buy my tickets 9 months in advance it would not be the progrm for me, then again in such circumstances I probably would not have the status nor miles to be able to get upgraded anyway.

Routes, many, fares? Anything from J on down. I get it that you think you fly a lot and know a lot because you are DL GM 2MM and UA whatever, but please do realize that that's peanuts compared to many on this board.

I don't really have an opinion on and have never thought about whether I know more than others. But if someone believes DL provides good value on their SM program and is able to use it to fly at reasonable prices in business class on international, I would be very interested in hearing the details and would probably fly a lot more DL. I used to fly NW on business class and with a combination of J fares and upgrades on discount economy fares, I averaged about $1700 for an RT TPAC. On UA, last year I bought only discount economy, averaged $1200 per RT and got upgraded 95% of the time (19/20) on the TPAC segments. If I could do that on DL or even get close to the $1700 average I used to pay on NW, I'd be flying mostly DL. I usually book about 2 weeks out. I'm not trying to prove a point, but there are a lot of posters claiming the DL SM program is fine. If that's the case, someone has bad information. If it's me who is misinformed, I'd like to know the specifics so I can take advantage of it and make better use of DL for my travel. I think that's the whole point of the forum.....to share useful information.

Useful, not fanciful. What was available on NW is not really relevent, that airline no longer exists, was flawed in many ways and was taken over by Delta (yes we can get into the niceties of who is the CEO, how much cash was in the bank at the time, etc, howere at the end of the day the airline is now all Delta) not to mention that DL was primarily a TA airline and NW a TP airline.

"About two weeks out" is purposefully nebulous as the difference between 15 days and 13 days can be exponential, and generally worse on UA. I do not think that everything is "fine" however on the other hand there is rarely any balanced discussion of this on these boards, as the exact extreme of, "why can't I get upgraded from a T fare because there is an empty seat in Business" idiocy.

K Fare on LAX-JFK - No Z inventory
 

Normally, I buy the cheap T or U fares between LAX & JFK. However, for a flight this summer the lowest fare was a K, so I bought it thinking at least I can get some use out of my systemwide upgrade certs. However, when I called to upgrade there was no Z inventory. Anyone have any insight on the inventory management for the transcon routes. I know early comp upgrades are next to impossible since they switched to this aircraft with B/E, but I was surprised they didn't even have one Z seat available (on one flight all seats in B/E show as being available). My questions are:
- If I'm on the upgrade request list, will I be automatically upgraded if Z inventory is made available or will I have to monitor this and call?
- Has anyone had any experience with timing of release of Z inventory on LAX/SFO - JFK routes (e.g., 1 month out, 2 weeks out)?

It is all about perspectives.

Apparently you think the trade-off of possibly not sitting in J class on a long haul flight occasionally worth the difference between a Delta M fare and a lower priced upgradeable ticket on UA (as you said, 95%).

I am personally not willing to take that risk (on AA or UA or any other airline including Delta), and I have found availability of advance upgrade seating (at least on AA where I have SWUs) generally unavailable. I can generally find the Z availability on Delta on one routing or another.

To DLConvert

I would call DL on a regular basis, and start calling daily at the 2 week out mark (before other upgrade windows open).
(but normally I won't book unless the upgrade is available)

DLConvert, I think you mean there were no G upgrades available. Z buckets are for international upgrades.

It looks like I've requested Business (Z) in my itinerary...maybe because this is BusinessElite on the transcon flights now and not the standard domestic metal?

DL seems to be treating all nonstop transcons as BE -- regardless of the metal flown. If you want a high probability of getting upgraded then buy a connecting flight.

So a question, and I would really like to know the answer. Assuming I am buying M fares typically about 2 weeks out and have not much flexibility on dates, would I be 100% certain of always being able to get an upgrade using miles or SWUs on DL.