The Definitive B/E Upgrade Complaint Thread
#751
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Programs: DL DM
Posts: 5,292
Discounted J does not offer the flexibility of a Refundable Ticket. Also discounted J has advanced purchased rules. I often travel on tickets purchased a week prior to travel, at that point only full J fares are available which is easily double what my refundable Y fare is.
#752
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Programs: DL DM
Posts: 5,292
Are all you really that thick-headed? The disparity in price is not that great. Again, if you find DL's highest YBM fare and compare against UA's lowest upgradeable, then your weak argument holds water. And then again, factor in all the benies you DONT get on that cheap UA fare. Now I am really done with this argument!
#753
Join Date: Sep 2009
Programs: UA GS>1K>Nothing; DL DM 2MM; AS 75K>Nothing>MVP
Posts: 9,341
I think the real answer as to why people so passionate in defending this can be found in this thread. For a small minority of Biz travelers, who do NOT pay the tab, they are working for companies who don't care what they spend or are not sophisticated enough to realize they are being ripped off by employees "flying coach" yet paying J prices.
I feel sorry for the companies who have people with so little regard for the shareholders $$. That seems to me to be the driver here. Direct aisle access? Really? If I am paying the bill I am NOT paying $3500 so my employee can not be bothered to shift to the right and let the person on the window out.
I feel sorry for the companies who have people with so little regard for the shareholders $$. That seems to me to be the driver here. Direct aisle access? Really? If I am paying the bill I am NOT paying $3500 so my employee can not be bothered to shift to the right and let the person on the window out.
#754
Join Date: Sep 2009
Programs: UA GS>1K>Nothing; DL DM 2MM; AS 75K>Nothing>MVP
Posts: 9,341
What a total red herring. If I need to make a schedule change, I can throw away my W fare on UA, buy an new ticket and I'm still better off than if I had bought an M fare on DL. It's pretty obvious who's flying on OPM.
#755
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Programs: DL DM
Posts: 5,292
I feel sorry for the companies who have people with so little regard for the shareholders $$. That seems to me to be the driver here. Direct aisle access? Really? If I am paying the bill I am NOT paying $3500 so my employee can not be bothered to shift to the right and let the person on the window out.
#756
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: SUX
Programs: BA Silver; HHonors Gold; SPG Gold; Points but dirt with everyone else
Posts: 8,050
In my link from above, DL106 and DL140 are all still 767 seatmaps. Delta.com Flight Schedules also show these as 767s, with flatbed icons. If you book on delta.com, you also get to select seats from a 767 seatmap. On Expertflyer, aircraft type is listed as "76W'...Expedia.com shows aircraft being "76W" when you book, etc. Where are you seeing 752s and 752 seatmaps?
#757
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: VA
Posts: 144
I don't even purchase my tickets, just give the dates/destination and it is booked.
#758
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: ICT
Programs: AA EXP, UA Plat, DL G, Marriott Gold
Posts: 1,330
I think the real answer as to why people so passionate in defending this can be found in this thread. For a small minority of Biz travelers, who do NOT pay the tab, they are working for companies who don't care what they spend or are not sophisticated enough to realize they are being ripped off by employees "flying coach" yet paying J prices. The FACT is: you CAN (and I do) fly J for 1/3-1/4 the price of a DL M fare every time. The key is the repeated "but you dont get bonus miles if you fly UA W for $1700 and use a FREE SWU to upgrade". As an employer I frankly do not care if you get your 150% MQMs.. If I am good enough to let you book an upgradeable W fare on UA (typically $200-300 more than lowest)you darn well better not bit&h about not getting your bonus as well.
I feel sorry for the companies who have people with so little regard for the shareholders $$. That seems to me to be the driver here. Direct aisle access? Really? If I am paying the bill I am NOT paying $3500 so my employee can not be bothered to shift to the right and let the person on the window out.
I feel sorry for the companies who have people with so little regard for the shareholders $$. That seems to me to be the driver here. Direct aisle access? Really? If I am paying the bill I am NOT paying $3500 so my employee can not be bothered to shift to the right and let the person on the window out.
And I think you're forgetting about people who fly J as per company policy. Thankfully, my company allows international travel on J for us executives. I do agree with you that if paying for a Y ticket, I couldn't care less about upgradeability, that's the employees problem, whereas mine indeed is watching out for the shareholders best interest.
DL J isn't priced much differently than UA J. Some people prefer one product over the other. I try to stick with DL as long as the price difference is minimal.
#759
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: LAX/BOS/HKG/AMS/SFO...hmm, I need a life.
Programs: United1K, AA ExPlAAt, DL MM/Gold, Hilton Diamond, Avis First
Posts: 13,316
I hope you're not referring to me here
And I think you're forgetting about people who fly J as per company policy. Thankfully, my company allows international travel on J for us executives. I do agree with you that if paying for a Y ticket, I couldn't care less about upgradeability, that's the employees problem, whereas mine indeed is watching out for the shareholders best interest.
DL J isn't priced much differently than UA J. Some people prefer one product over the other. I try to stick with DL as long as the price difference is minimal.
And I think you're forgetting about people who fly J as per company policy. Thankfully, my company allows international travel on J for us executives. I do agree with you that if paying for a Y ticket, I couldn't care less about upgradeability, that's the employees problem, whereas mine indeed is watching out for the shareholders best interest.
DL J isn't priced much differently than UA J. Some people prefer one product over the other. I try to stick with DL as long as the price difference is minimal.
#760
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,679
Discounted J does not offer the flexibility of a Refundable Ticket. Also discounted J has advanced purchased rules. I often travel on tickets purchased a week prior to travel, at that point only full J fares are available which is easily double what my refundable Y fare is.
Be that as it may, as someone that hasn't been in the Y cabin international in over a decade I will depart from some of this shareholder value nonsense other folks have said. I have are a very particular set of skills; skills I have acquired over a very long career. I fly J or Above. Don't like it, don't sign my contract.
I would also say that as a MSP based flyer we don't exactly see the nicer planes, or convenient routes anymore. And I'm under no illusion that someone if going to pick me up in a Porche or any of the other soft perks you get in JFK or ATL. Most of my international trips are usually 1-stop be DL, AA or UA/CO. The folks that are talking about product need to keep in mind because DL is not the same system wide. My experience is AA J is just as good as DL on the routes I've been flying as of late and usually cheaper.
#761
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Up in the Air
Programs: DL MM; UA MM/1K
Posts: 613
A view from the Troll's Vantage Point
I don't fly Delta any more, but I hold a MM status and I left Delta because the international upgrade policy did not meet my needs.
Delta made a business decision to ignore a certain market segment (people who travel a lot to international destinations for companies with restrictive travel policies). They lost some business, they got to sell some very expensive Y/B/M tickets and apparently they do not see a need to reverse the policy.
What I don't get is why are posters here so emotional about this?
And where do people get the "facts" they post here?
Happy Travels
DLP
Delta made a business decision to ignore a certain market segment (people who travel a lot to international destinations for companies with restrictive travel policies). They lost some business, they got to sell some very expensive Y/B/M tickets and apparently they do not see a need to reverse the policy.
What I don't get is why are posters here so emotional about this?
And where do people get the "facts" they post here?
Happy Travels
DLP
#762
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Boston, MA
Programs: AA EP, DL DM, DL 1M, Marriott Elite, Hilton Gold, SPG Elite
Posts: 140
I don't fly Delta any more, but I hold a MM status and I left Delta because the international upgrade policy did not meet my needs.
Delta made a business decision to ignore a certain market segment (people who travel a lot to international destinations for companies with restrictive travel policies). They lost some business, they got to sell some very expensive Y/B/M tickets and apparently they do not see a need to reverse the policy.
What I don't get is why are posters here so emotional about this?
And where do people get the "facts" they post here?
Happy Travels
DLP
Delta made a business decision to ignore a certain market segment (people who travel a lot to international destinations for companies with restrictive travel policies). They lost some business, they got to sell some very expensive Y/B/M tickets and apparently they do not see a need to reverse the policy.
What I don't get is why are posters here so emotional about this?
And where do people get the "facts" they post here?
Happy Travels
DLP
I'll give the most peculiar example of how this system needs further work. This week I am on an BOS-NGO-BOS trip. On the way out, the flight had 48 empty BE seats and I did not get an upgrade as expected traveling Coach. Today, I get to NGO and find out I've been upgraded, most likely, because Coach is full. So, for the price of my $1300 ticket, I got half an upgrade. Great deal for my company, special circumstance nets me BE going home. However, if Delta had an upgrade policy conducive to BE upgrades, my company would pay $2500-3000 for the ticket, I would have been upgraded twice and Delta would have collected more revenue. This is of course one side of the coin, and I'm sure Delta has run enough macros to figure out their margin on this relative to Coach Y sales to non medallions and sales to YBM or BE. One thing Delta should do, if they continue to operate the BE upgrades as YBM - make them unlimited and automatic within 24 hours if you book that fare class. I think they will increase revenue and margin further. As a business, Delta has to operate on maximizing gross margin or they will be cutting other features we like.
I can see both sides of the argument, but at the end of the day, Delta wins on their current policy or they wouldn't operate it in this manner.
#763
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Fort Lauderdale
Programs: UA: 1K 1.5MM, DL: LTDM 3.5MM, JB: Mosaic4, LH: exSEN 1MM, Bonvoy LT Titanium Elite, Hertz PresC
Posts: 266
I like the current policy the way it is. Though, I would be singing a different tune if I was paying the fare for myself.
Company policy dictates we travel on the lowest refundable ticket, so a 95% my travel are on M+ fares. The restrictive SWU is beneficial for me as there is more of a opportunity for me to clear into BE The higher fare requirement effectively keeps the cabin open compared with UA.
I have yet to not clear at the gate using a SWU if I haven't been cleared prior to departure. My competition for the remaining seats is fewer and I'm usually at the top as a Diamond on a high fare class ticket. Unlike UA, where there are numerous tales of 1Ks and GS not clearing as Business is full. So now you paid a W+ fare and still sit in the back. I'll take my chances with DL.
When my travel days are over, I'll move to another airlines with an easier international upgrade policy, but until then, DL suits me fine.
Company policy dictates we travel on the lowest refundable ticket, so a 95% my travel are on M+ fares. The restrictive SWU is beneficial for me as there is more of a opportunity for me to clear into BE The higher fare requirement effectively keeps the cabin open compared with UA.
I have yet to not clear at the gate using a SWU if I haven't been cleared prior to departure. My competition for the remaining seats is fewer and I'm usually at the top as a Diamond on a high fare class ticket. Unlike UA, where there are numerous tales of 1Ks and GS not clearing as Business is full. So now you paid a W+ fare and still sit in the back. I'll take my chances with DL.
When my travel days are over, I'll move to another airlines with an easier international upgrade policy, but until then, DL suits me fine.
#764
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: NYC
Posts: 27,230
I think people aren't giving enough weighting to what I think is a very important market segment. The business traveler who flies Paid J for business but then wants to use the SWUs to take the family overseas in business class. Skymiles is a terrible program for these folks. AA is the best. UA is so-so (only 6 SWUs and possible fare premiums).
#765
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Meechigan
Posts: 1,006
I think people aren't giving enough weighting to what I think is a very important market segment. The business traveler who flies Paid J for business but then wants to use the SWUs to take the family overseas in business class. Skymiles is a terrible program for these folks. AA is the best. UA is so-so (only 6 SWUs and possible fare premiums).