The Definitive B/E Upgrade Complaint Thread

Old May 8, 10, 12:32 pm
  #16  
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Originally Posted by asnovici View Post
I don't understand what is this thread about.
To me, it'd be the use of tape to rope off seats and placing service items in the seats. It is a bit tacky.

NWAFA wouldn't it be just as easy to leave the seats empty and address the person that would have the nerve to try to grab that seat?
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Old May 8, 10, 12:50 pm
  #17  
 
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Originally Posted by domyoji View Post
So I am taking DL634 out of NRT to SFO on May 11. I checked seat availability and 21 seats are open in Biz Elite (I imagine some of these are sold, but unassigned). Anyone wanna give some pointers on how I might weasel my way up there from a upper row Coach ticket?
Upgrade your fare to a M,B or Y and use mileage to upgrade.
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Old May 8, 10, 4:02 pm
  #18  
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I am in agreement and speak as a DM, if the DM in the back was on a low Coach fare he sat exactly where he should have been sitting.
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Old May 8, 10, 4:14 pm
  #19  
 
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...

maybe it's just me, but this is how i look at it.

excluding a discussion of the current SM rules, upgradeable fares, etc... here's my .02:

Having that empty BE seat is just STUPID. Most people who are willing to actually "pay" for BE service aren't chasing the upgradeable fares... it's people who (for some reason or another) - just don't give a damn how much the fare costs.... either someone else is payin' the bill...or $$ just means nothing to them...

Sell those empty BE seats at the gate to the highest bidder - start the bidding at $500 and lower it down until they are all gone - with the caveat that you have to be a diamond/platinum to upgrade.

As long as this wasn't tied to "fare class" or some other silliness... it would net delta an extra $2-$3k on each and every BE flight... instead of the seats being empty...

for that matter - i'm surprised they don't do the same thing on domestic first class. me for one (even as a lowly PM) - would not blink to pay $50-$100 for a 3-6 hr domestic flight.... even if it came out of my own pocket.


doug
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Old May 8, 10, 4:16 pm
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Originally Posted by batdude View Post
maybe it's just me, but this is how i look at it.

excluding a discussion of the current SM rules, upgradeable fares, etc... here's my .02:

Having that empty BE seat is just STUPID. Most people who are willing to actually "pay" for BE service aren't chasing the upgradeable fares... it's people who (for some reason or another) - just don't give a damn how much the fare costs.... either someone else is payin' the bill...or $$ just means nothing to them...

Sell those empty BE seats at the gate to the highest bidder - start the bidding at $500 and lower it down until they are all gone - with the caveat that you have to be a diamond/platinum to upgrade.

doug
Lets go back to Business 101 here; if Delta did this, what would be in the incentive for ANYONE to pay full fare Business? These people who "just don't give a damn", as you so aptly put it, wouldn't need to spend their money and Delta would lose a substantial amount in the long run.
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Old May 8, 10, 4:17 pm
  #21  
 
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Originally Posted by NWAFA View Post
Just off the top of my head, DL has to block 4 BE seats for crew rest if bunks are not available.
I haven't been on an A333, but the 763s have four seats just behind 6A/B reserved for this purpose. There aren't numbered and are never sold.

764s don't have them. Is there a downstairs cabin with bunks on the 764s or is that just the 777s?
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Old May 8, 10, 7:45 pm
  #22  
 
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..

i am not going to start a thread war over this. i've made my point - empty seats in BE gains ZERO income for the company and doesn't do any of the premium travelers any good.

what would be in the incentive for ANYONE to pay full fare Business?

well, like i stated in my post - it's my OPINION that most people in BE on these flights are going to PAY (dearly) for that seat. They aren't the type to gamble on getting/not getting a seat at the gate, simply b/c the Y cabin is below their tier on the social ladder.

It's also my OPINION that a solid majority of BE pax don't care about saving $1200 on a fare... it's just not worth their time.

what i wanted to convey is that *IF* there are empty BE seats when the door is closed, it behooves Delta to sell those seats... perhaps to the highest bidder - but only Diamonds/Plats/Golds should be offered that opportunity.

We'll call this new perk:

SKYUPINFRONTODABUS.

LOL.

doug
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Old May 8, 10, 7:52 pm
  #23  
 
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Originally Posted by batdude View Post
maybe it's just me, but this is how i look at it.

excluding a discussion of the current SM rules, upgradeable fares, etc... here's my .02:

Having that empty BE seat is just STUPID. Most people who are willing to actually "pay" for BE service aren't chasing the upgradeable fares... it's people who (for some reason or another) - just don't give a damn how much the fare costs.... either someone else is payin' the bill...or $$ just means nothing to them...

Sell those empty BE seats at the gate to the highest bidder - start the bidding at $500 and lower it down until they are all gone - with the caveat that you have to be a diamond/platinum to upgrade.

As long as this wasn't tied to "fare class" or some other silliness... it would net delta an extra $2-$3k on each and every BE flight... instead of the seats being empty...

for that matter - i'm surprised they don't do the same thing on domestic first class. me for one (even as a lowly PM) - would not blink to pay $50-$100 for a 3-6 hr domestic flight.... even if it came out of my own pocket.


doug
And the one or two people who dont buy J fares just cost DL more than the $3K that was made selling seats this way.
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Old May 9, 10, 12:25 am
  #24  
 
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Originally Posted by AndyTLe View Post
To me, it'd be the use of tape to rope off seats and placing service items in the seats. It is a bit tacky.

NWAFA wouldn't it be just as easy to leave the seats empty and address the person that would have the nerve to try to grab that seat?
It avoids a confrontation. I know from personal experience that after giving someone the OK to sit in a crew seat under the condition that they would have to leave when crew breaks start, they then refuse to vacate the seat. Then we have to see who has more pull, the working crew member or someone sitting in a seat that they weren't assigned to.

Originally Posted by 18sas View Post
I haven't been on an A333, but the 763s have four seats just behind 6A/B reserved for this purpose. There aren't numbered and are never sold.

764s don't have them. Is there a downstairs cabin with bunks on the 764s or is that just the 777s?
The PMNW FAs have different work rules compared to PMDL FAs. The company has to honor our contract. In the case of crew rest, if our contract is not followed, each working PMNW FA gets an additional 4 hours of flight pay. If the company sells a crew seat, the working crew gets an additional 2 hours of flight pay on top of the 4 hours.
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Old May 9, 10, 7:39 am
  #25  
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Originally Posted by DLATL777 View Post
Lets go back to Business 101 here; if Delta did this, what would be in the incentive for ANYONE to pay full fare Business? These people who "just don't give a damn", as you so aptly put it, wouldn't need to spend their money and Delta would lose a substantial amount in the long run.
Actually they would. And that's the point. My speculation is that most fliers in J are with company business, and they can fly there because their are on business. Hence business elite. I don't think that those same people would hold back purchasing J tickets because of a possible upgrade later.

It's the people that pay on their own dime that would hold back. Or you might get those that did hold back to cough up something if you dangle a carrot that's cheaper than the original one.
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Old May 9, 10, 2:07 pm
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Originally Posted by DLATL777 View Post
Lets go back to Business 101 here; if Delta did this, what would be in the incentive for ANYONE to pay full fare Business? These people who "just don't give a damn", as you so aptly put it, wouldn't need to spend their money and Delta would lose a substantial amount in the long run.
Sorry, I have to disagree. Plenty of people who want to be assured of a J seat would pay the full fare. They would not want to take the risk of sitting in the back.
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Old May 9, 10, 2:28 pm
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Originally Posted by LibFlyer View Post
Sorry, I have to disagree. Plenty of people who want to be assured of a J seat would pay the full fare. They would not want to take the risk of sitting in the back.
Even if "plenty" or even "most" of those that fly in J would continue to pay full fare doesn't mean that giving away J wouldn't hurt revenue. Even if one person that would otherwise pay for it decides to gamble, then revenue is lost.

At the end of the day, if the upgrades come, then people will stop paying for J (look at the pretty much complete lack of domestic F demand). If the upgrades don't come, then it isn't really a benefit, is it? There is simply no way to use free upgrades to drive demand without reducing your demand for paid J.
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Old May 9, 10, 4:46 pm
  #28  
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There is a way to do this, buy the appropriate fare and use miles or SWU's, or go and pay the difference between your T fare or whatever and the lowest BizE fare available. Personally I want those four seats (or whatever) to stay empty, I love when people try to justify crzy int'l talk from their domestic experiences.

The only permutation which could work in such circumstances is what BA had for a few years, paid upgrades onboard, at the CSD's judgement, BA would sell upgrades onboard for certain set prices, you paid then and there by credit card. They never promoted this heavily on purpose, but I would think judging by the tone of most "why am I not upgraded from a T fare" type posters, that they wopuld balk at $1000-1500 RT for upgrades in this manner.
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Old May 9, 10, 5:44 pm
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Thumbs up

Originally Posted by hfly View Post
There is a way to do this, buy the appropriate fare and use miles or SWU's, or go and pay the difference between your T fare or whatever and the lowest BizE fare available. Personally I want those four seats (or whatever) to stay empty, I love when people try to justify crzy int'l talk from their domestic experiences.

The only permutation which could work in such circumstances is what BA had for a few years, paid upgrades onboard, at the CSD's judgement, BA would sell upgrades onboard for certain set prices, you paid then and there by credit card. They never promoted this heavily on purpose, but I would think judging by the tone of most "why am I not upgraded from a T fare" type posters, that they wopuld balk at $1000-1500 RT for upgrades in this manner.


Cheapskates that don't belong up front. Don't try to bring facts of devaluation of the product into it...they don't want to hear it. They just want us all to know how valuable they are on their T-fare elite status.
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Old May 9, 10, 6:11 pm
  #30  
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Originally Posted by bubbashow View Post


Cheapskates that don't belong up front. Don't try to bring facts of devaluation of the product into it...they don't want to hear it. They just want us all to know how valuable they are on their T-fare elite status.
Ok how about the fact that the BE cabins have been running rather empty as reported here a number of times. The underly issue TO ME is the price of the M fare - these seats can still be revenue controlled, and bring in a few more thousand per flight.
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