Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > Delta Air Lines | SkyMiles
Reload this Page >

DL ask DOT for them to delay SEA-PEK and ATL-PVG Service to 2011

DL ask DOT for them to delay SEA-PEK and ATL-PVG Service to 2011

Old Apr 22, 10, 7:08 am
  #1  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: DTW
Programs: DL - PM, (NW - Plat), AA - Gold, Marriott - Plat, Avis - First
Posts: 831
DL ask DOT for them to delay SEA-PEK and ATL-PVG Service to 2011

Yesterday DL submitting a filing to the DOT asking to delay some of the new China flights planned for 2010 for another year.

SEA-PEK delay 2x weekly flights from 6/15/10 to 6/15/11, plan to start with 5x weekly flights this year on 6/15/10

ATL-PVG delay start completely from 9/1/10 to 9/1/11

Don't have the link to the DOT filing, but the summary is listed here http://www.airlineinfo.com/ and subscribers can access the article.

Updated: SEA-PEK will still start on 6/15, but only be 5x weekly, not daily.

Last edited by DTWflyer; Apr 22, 10 at 7:52 am
DTWflyer is offline  
Old Apr 22, 10, 9:32 am
  #2  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Seat 1A
Programs: DL; AA; UA; CO; LHLX; NZ; QR; EK; BA
Posts: 6,712
Originally Posted by DTWflyer View Post
Updated: SEA-PEK will still start on 6/15, but only be 5x weekly, not daily.
Actually, SEA-PEK was always going to be at 5x weekly. See the initial route announcement from October 2009 below:

http://news.delta.com/index.php?s=43&item=776

Region Route Effective* Aircraft Frequency
------ ----- --------- -------- ---------
Trans- Seattle to Beijing, June 4, 2010 Boeing 767-300 Five times
Pacific China weekly

NW was awarded SEA-PEK daily, hence DL now has to apply to the DOT to defer the remaining two frequencies.
ClipperDelta is offline  
Old Apr 22, 10, 10:39 am
  #3  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Hopefully on a plane...
Posts: 6,580
They are delaying ATL-PVG for another year?
WBurcham is offline  
Old Apr 22, 10, 10:43 am
  #4  
fti
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: MN
Programs: Lots of programs, dirt on all of them!
Posts: 11,901
This is a very common tactic by most US airlines - apply for, then get a route. Then delay and stall tactics. The DOT should say, "Operate the route or we will give it to another airline."
fti is offline  
Old Apr 22, 10, 11:00 am
  #5  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: DTW
Programs: DL - PM, (NW - Plat), AA - Gold, Marriott - Plat, Avis - First
Posts: 831
ATL-PVG isn't coming back anytime soon. It would canabalize DTW-PVG and both routes would suffer.

Keep in mind I think just about every airline has deffered China routes that they fought so hard to acquire in recent years.

AA ORD-PEK
US PHL-PEK
UA SFO-CAN

It is not the boom town that everyone once thought for all the proposed new service.
DTWflyer is offline  
Old Apr 22, 10, 11:12 am
  #6  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: LAX; AA EXP, MM; HH Gold
Posts: 31,790
Originally Posted by fti View Post
This is a very common tactic by most US airlines - apply for, then get a route. Then delay and stall tactics. The DOT should say, "Operate the route or we will give it to another airline."
In normal times, I'd agree, but there are currently dozens of unused China frequencies and nobody is applying for them. 14 new frequencies became available last month and nobody applied - DOT didn't even open a docket. 14 more become available next March and more in 2012.

ATL-PVG didn't make sense when Delta applied for it, as there are only several daily O&D passengers to China from Atlanta. Same thing with AA's proposed DFW-PEK that it abandoned during the application process. Not enough O&D to make it work.

When DL applied for ATL-PVG, however, it didn't have NW and its international strength, so ATL was about the only gateway that Delta had and it desperately wanted to get a route to China. Given the DOT's preference to new entrants (US also won its PHL request), DL probably could have asked for any gateway city and it would have been granted.

Too bad DL didn't apply for LAX as that's where the O&D to China is located and there are no US-based airlines serving LAX-China nonstop. I suspect that once the economy improves and traffic to China increases, UA, AA and DL will all apply for rights to fly LAX-PVG/PEK.
FWAAA is offline  
Old Apr 22, 10, 11:41 am
  #7  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Programs: AA Gold AAdvantage Elite, Rapids Reward
Posts: 34,395
Originally Posted by WBurcham View Post
They are delaying ATL-PVG for another year?
Yes, 1 year to be existed.
N830MH is offline  
Old Apr 22, 10, 11:52 am
  #8  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,223
Originally Posted by FWAAA View Post
In normal times, I'd agree, but there are currently dozens of unused China frequencies and nobody is applying for them. 14 new frequencies became available last month and nobody applied - DOT didn't even open a docket. 14 more become available next March and more in 2012.

ATL-PVG didn't make sense when Delta applied for it, as there are only several daily O&D passengers to China from Atlanta. Same thing with AA's proposed DFW-PEK that it abandoned during the application process. Not enough O&D to make it work.

When DL applied for ATL-PVG, however, it didn't have NW and its international strength, so ATL was about the only gateway that Delta had and it desperately wanted to get a route to China. Given the DOT's preference to new entrants (US also won its PHL request), DL probably could have asked for any gateway city and it would have been granted.

Too bad DL didn't apply for LAX as that's where the O&D to China is located and there are no US-based airlines serving LAX-China nonstop. I suspect that once the economy improves and traffic to China increases, UA, AA and DL will all apply for rights to fly LAX-PVG/PEK.
1) the APA stopped DFW-PEK
2) UA asked for LAX-PVG the last round but didn't get it.
Dawgfan6291 is offline  
Old Apr 22, 10, 11:55 am
  #9  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,223
Originally Posted by fti View Post
This is a very common tactic by most US airlines - apply for, then get a route. Then delay and stall tactics. The DOT should say, "Operate the route or we will give it to another airline."
Well they could do that, but then it just goes into the pool of 28 weekly rights that are sitting between US and China because no other airline wants them......no point in the DOT no giving Delta a year here, if someone wanted the right all they would have to do is object to it and the DOT would A) give Delta a year or say no, start ATL-PVG in sept 2010 or we pull the rights and give them to who objected. Like i said, no one will because they could just ask for rights from the pool.
Dawgfan6291 is offline  
Old Apr 22, 10, 1:09 pm
  #10  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: LAX; AA EXP, MM; HH Gold
Posts: 31,790
Originally Posted by Dawgfan6291 View Post
1) the APA stopped DFW-PEK
Depends on which side you ask. APA would say that AA refused to meet its reasonable demands in order to waive its contractual duty-day limitation.

In any event, DFW-PEK suffers from the same lack of O&D as ATL-PVG.

Originally Posted by Dawgfan6291 View Post
2) UA asked for LAX-PVG the last round but didn't get it.
True, but I don't think that UA's failure to obtain LAX-PVG in that round says anything about the viability of the route - rather, it was fifth on the list when only four daily flights could be awarded. As new entrants, US had to win its PHL request, as well as DL's ATL route. DOT determined that CO's second EWR and AA's second ORD routes were more appropriate at that time.

Now, my guess is that the first airline to request LAX-PVG/PEK will get it.
FWAAA is offline  
Old Apr 22, 10, 1:19 pm
  #11  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: LAX
Programs: UA Silver, AA, WN, DL
Posts: 3,965
Bummer, I was hoping to see if there was a chance in hell to get a C award seat for the PVG route.

Has the PEK route been released into the system yet? I guess probably not as they're still changing it.
luv2ctheworld is offline  
Old Apr 22, 10, 1:19 pm
  #12  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Programs: DL 1 million, AA 1 mil, HH lapsed Diamond, Marriott Plat
Posts: 28,192
Originally Posted by FWAAA View Post
Now, my guess is that the first airline to request LAX-PVG/PEK will get it.
Those sound like excellent uses of a DL 777-200ER.
3Cforme is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search Engine: