Burj

Wow...that is a pretty sweet commute for ANY profession!

So at airports that have lots of mainline AND regional staff, do they inter-mix/mingle at all?

I know at DTW there are separate crew lounges for mainline, Mesaba, and Pinnacle!

A set of SkyWest FA's once told me that when they work SkyWest operated flights for United to/from ORD they would use the employee cafeteria there (which they claimed has GOOD and AFFORDABLE food) and would sometimes get some odd looks/stares but everyone was always cordial, if not friendly...

raehl311

Have not had the time to read the whole 2p2 thread yet, but great material there and here, so thanks a bunch for that!

The problem is, pilots don't "matter". You mentioned in the 2p2 thread that you can teach most generally competent people to fly. And there are a LOT of people who want to be pilots - you've mentioned in this thread that there are way more qualified pilots who want to be mainline pilots than there are spots for them.

So no, it doesn't make sense to pay pilots much, because there's huge demand for the job from a large pool of qualified applicants.

In contrast, the best athletes are irreplaceable.

Also, it doesn't make sense to pay pilots more because while people will pay more to see the best of the best athletes, no one will pay more for an airplane ticket because they've got one of the best pilots.

Another way to look at it is the cook at Denny's can kill you, but he might just break minimum wage.


Not to come down on pilots, but wages have nothing to do with importance.



(On the flipside, I do think CEOs are overpaid - pay there doesn't seem to be determined by market forces but mainly by a select group of people on boards of different companies who have figured out how to set each other's salaries.)

tkey75

W0X0F, thanks for such a great thread both at 2+2 and here. It wa a long read, but a great one for any air travel enthusiast. I felt like I was sitting in the cockpit with you just shooting the breeze about airplanes.

W0X0F_2p2

If there's any interest, I could post some pics from places I've been. Here's one of me with a couple of other crew members on a camel tour of the pyramids in Cairo:

Gargoyle

So you also have FAA certification for the Dromedary-ER? I understand the navigation system is not user friendly, but maybe it's been upgraded. I like the seat pitch, but I wonder, how's the on-board service? How often to pax get bumped?

johnincolumbus

Perhaps W0X0F_2p2 should start a new thread, this one specifically dedicated to questions for him about being a pilot, flying for DL, flying the 767-300ER, etc... The mods could even make it a sticky if they wanted to.

Burj

Cool picture! Pictures of your travels would be great! You get to go to places that most of us will never have a chance to see for ourselves!

W0X0F_2p2

As you guys all know, if you fly often enough you'll occasionally have the "day from hell." Yesterday was mine.

I flew the red-eye from JFK to Bogota Saturday night. I was the 3rd pilot on this leg and it was only recently that Delta added a 3rd pilot for this flight at the urging of ALPA. This was done for safety reasons: backside of the clock flying; critical terrain airport; weather issues usually encountered (due to ITCZ). After making this flight (my first time), I think adding a pilot was an excellent move. It's the most demanding flight I can recall making in some time due to ATC issues and wx avoidance. Additionally, we had a medical emergency about 400 miles out of Bogota...possible heart attack which 'got better'.

Anyway, on this trip I was scheduled to deadhead back to JFK Sunday night (only 2 pilots needed for that leg), departing BOG at 11 pm or so, but I thought I'd get a day of my life back by deviating from the deadhead and just go right back home through Atlanta.

Thus, we landed at 0500 in BOG and rather than go with the crew to the hotel for the 15 hour rest, I stayed at the airport to take the 1030 to ATL and then continue home to D.C.

First of all, that 5 hour wait was excruciating because I was just dead tired and couldn't find anyplace to get comfortable. Minutes dragged like hours and I could appreciate how sleep deprivation is an effective interrogation technique. I'd have done almost anything for a comfortable bed at that point.

Got a first class seat to ATL and slept. Due in at 3:30 and my flight to DCA was 4:20 (I had the jumpseat reserved). Very bad wx in ATL and I realized my connection would be tight...I had forgotten I had to clear customs.

Got on the ground at 3:45 on the new runway...the one way to the west...and knew it would be a 10-15 minute taxi in. Checked "Next Flight" app on my iPhone (what a great app...get it if you don't already have it) and it showed my flight was delayed about an hour. "Great!", I thought, "I'll make it after all."

I won't bore you with all the details, but ATL was full of cancellations and my flight cancelled. I was all over the airport checking DCA and IAD flights and getting no better information than you guys get during these IRROP events. (It's really irritating how they give information with an eye dropper, isn't it? Still, I'm sympathetic to the gate agents; they are dealing with an impossible situation and often don't have the information either.) Finally pushed back on a flight at 11:10 pm, took off at 11:30 and got to DCA at 12:45 am.

5.5 hour wait at BOG; 7 hour wait at ATL. Through it all I was very fatalistic about the events (not a word I usually like to use when talking about air travel, but you know what I mean)...I either get there or I don't. Not much I can do about it and it's no one's fault, so just roll with it. Like I said, if you fly a lot, this is going to happen from time to time. One of the joys of flight that Wilbur and Orville couldn't foresee.

Burj

Glad you (finally) made it back! It is a little re-assuring to know that information during IRROPS is just as bad for you as it is for normal pax...

If I understood your post right, NYC->Bogata = 3 pilots but Bogata->NYC = 2 pilots?

So is it really an issue of landing into Bogata at the end of a long flight that requires the pilot to be well rested? If there are 3 pilots than is there an official crew rest seat (or does the plane of a crew rest area?)

Again thanks for posting!

W0X0F_2p2

Yeah, I thought you guys might like that.

According to the regs, it is only the block time which determines how many pilots are needed and Bogota only requires two pilots. But ALPA persuaded the company that the leg down to BOG would benefit safety-wise from the addition of an extra pilot anyway (for all the reasons I mentioned in my first post on this).

The leg back is during the daytime after 15+ hours of rest and the critical airport is at the beginning of the flight so that was deemed to still be safe with just two pilots.

Interesting that you brought this up, because the plane did not have a crew rest seat. They simply blocked off 1A for us. The only difference between that and a crew rest seat is that the crew rest seat has a privacy curtain and a footrest, but it's still seat 1A (on the 757).

I thought the first class seat was adequate for my 1.5 hour break. If there is any requirement for a real crew rest seat on the BOG flight, it would be contractual, not regulatory.

Burj

When I took my Mom to California for her b'day we flew from JFK on a Biz-elite 757 and I booked her 1A. When she asked what the curtain was for I told her I requested it in case she wanted to sleep...so her snoring wouldn't bother anyone!

W0X0F_2p2

Well played sir. Well played.

Steamrabbit

W0X0F,

I read your whole thread on 2+2 (well, I skipped ahead to your posts) and I've got to tell you that you really could write an excellent book that quite a lot of people would read.

Pretty much all you'd have to do is grab all of your posts from that thread and start editing. Turn some of that stuff into 4 or 5 chapters, write up a brief query letter and send it out to appropriate non-fiction book agents. A book like that would easily be mentioned in every major newspaper's travel section and blogs would be all over it. It would sell and I bet you'd have a lot of fun along the way.

Burj

A book would be really great and I would totally volunteer to proof read!

If you do it, you should do it because it is FUN and interesting for you...

Unfortunately based on Patrick Smith's experience I'm not so sure it would sell in large quantities as it would be really interesting to a fairly small niche...

In one of his Salon articles he laments the fact that the book distribution system is very much stacked against niche markets. He pointed out that he had a hard (if not impossible) time getting even airport stores to carry his book since they have limited shelf space and would rather sell trashy novels...

I don't want to discourage W0X0F_2p2 from writing... Based on all his posts I am sure it would be a great book...it is just that the economics of it would be hard...

HOWEVER...perhaps going the e-book route would be a better approach. Without the expense of printing/binding/advertising...a publishing house would have little overhead to get it onto Amazon and frequent fliers have a much higher e-reader use than the general population...

Heck even doing a quick "copy/paste" of these various posts and making it a FREE e-book would get a lot of exposure and name recognition for a follow up, more detailed, book for sale...

BostonGuy

As a writer myself, I have to say that in addition to the great knowledge, you had some damn fine English teachers in high school.

I've really, really enjoyed your posts. As a somewhat nervous flyer, I find that knowledge helps a ton.