Winkdaddy

I assume you own your own business? I can't imagine anyone ever using miles for a last minute biz trip when their company would/should simply pay the ticket cost for them.

Air Brian

I would accept the merger excuse if .dumb hadn't been a POS since changing its interface a few years ago. The fact that DL would choose its IT platform and user interfaces over NWA seems incomprehensible.

raehl311

Yes, it's easy to find award redemptions that beat 2 CPM, if you restrict yourself to award redemptions that beat 2 CPM.

But if the only way to get to 2 CPM is last-minute travel on the busiest travel day of the year and only if you refuse to connect, well, that's not exactly a ringing endorsement for the value of miles.

Jaimito Cartero

NW had put a mileage cap on RTW awards, but kept the mileage the same. I think DL popped it from 220k to 280k, but had no mileage cap, and I think you can use other partners (MH, AS, etc), that you couldn't on NW.

After being transferred to the RTW desk last month (when they were closed), I haven't tried to ticket it, or get any info. All the info on the current DL award is from posts here on FT.

Jaimito Cartero

Sure, I wouldn't spend 20k out of my own pocket for a RTW biz ticket. I also wouldn't spend 2k for a domestic FC ticket. One costs 280k on DL, the other is 45k or 50k. I'll take one RTW biz ticket instead of 6 domestic FC tickets, any day. Of course, with the old NW of a couple years ago, it would have been even less miles.

Again, if DL works for you, great. Of the 100's of FT'ers I've met personally over the last 6 years, less than a handful used their miles more for domestic trips than international.

GUWonder

25,000 or 32,500 miles for a roundtrip domestic trip where the alternative is costing me less than $221? That is a lousy value, but that is exactly the kind of value DL miles provide for ATL-WAS trips departing today and returning on Wednesday including hotels.

Reference to that dynamic has been mentioned on this forum many times over and until now in application to the apologist behavior for DL management's hostile ways against the very SkyMiles customers who continue to defend DL management's ways despite the battering those customers have repeatedly received by way of the devastating blows landed against the value of miles accumulated in their accounts.

My posts in this thread do not defend DL management's customer-abusing ways, and so your gratuitous assertions really are without merit. Nor do I have any material interest in defending DL's customer-abusing ways.

I have no interest in any investment position with regard to DL airlines which is perhaps why I am not a willing subject to the syndrome espoused above in your post. It is also why I do not hesitate to warn off customers from DL's customer-abusing ways. Fortunately Jaimito Cartero's posts also did just this:

".... provide fair warning about what DL management was doing with SkyMiles, and -- in contrast to some other posts -- .... were not built upon a desire to be fleeced or see others fleeced in the pursuit of material selfish-interest."

redtailshark

Gosh! That's even MORE THAN TWO J awards from NRT-SIN at 225k a pop!!

And you could even redeem for the Holy Grail of Deltified travel...

SDF-LIS in J at 550k SM!!

Probably you should do it now before the new five-tier award "calendar" appears.

mnredfox

I've only burned miles domestically (with exception to Mexico once and Canada a few times). It's more a function of not going international though. But redeeming awards to Hawaii and especially Alaska and Canada have been great at 25K. Not to mention I've had great luck getting UG's on award tix. 25K to sit in F RT isn't bad. Though I'm sad the NW EUA system for PE's on W tickets is going away, as we used to hit the top of the BF UG list.

mooper

I do, however, coining the example as a "business trip" was simply for illustrative purposes. People travel on short-notice for many reasons. I can think of trips I've booked where the passenger was traveling for a funeral, a spontaneous getaway weekend vacation, and various medical procedures or visits to someone else having one, in addition to the aforementioned (and most common) business trip example. Regardless of the reason, the point is that many people travel on near-term fares (not necessarily the next day - sometimes the next week or two) that would need to be purchased otherwise but yield superb CPM values when obtained through Delta's low/saver domestic award options. I book dozens of these for my and others' travel, so I can relay substantial first-hand experience with the superb value it provides.

Correct - just as easy as restricting yourself to poor CPM redemptions, as was being done in the various posts I was responding to. Your assertion regarding travel this week is absurd, every week of the year provides a plethora of examples where 2+ (and sometimes 3+) CPM values may be had for many routes. If you think I'm full of it, call me out on it: If you'd like me to provide you with a handful a week from now, either PM or reply to this to remind me and I'll gladly look a few up.

That's precisely my point. Just as easily as someone can say, "My friends and I travel internationally-only, and I don't like the international reward redemptions Delta offers. They s*ck!", I can say "My friends and I travel domestically-only, and Delta provides the best award redemption experience of any airline. They rock!". Delta isn't focused on your situation or mine; they are focused on the overall picture. The reality is that the vast majority of miles are redeemed for domestic - not international - travel, so they weigh this into their business decisions. If you know of an airline that focuses more on the areas you prefer, then it is perfectly logical to give business to that airline instead.

Assuming this is true, you still may have other investment interests - direct or indirect - that may stand to gain from Delta bashing. If so, it would at least explain your incredible dedication to the cause.

moondog

It appears that the calculus could be different for DL hub captives (or those who have spontaneous needs to visit DL hubs), but from PDX $575 domestic round trips aren't all that common, but whenever I stumble upon them, it's almost a foregone conclusion that 25k award seats are not on offer. A friend needed to fly PDX-ORD last week and fares were close to $500 RT, so I tried to gift him some miles to help his cause,... but 40k + $75 to connect in SLC wasn't such an attractive deal.

Jaimito Cartero

I think this is a pretty silly statement on your part. GUWonder is bashing DL so he can make money on another stock? Uh, puhleeze.

I certainly recall a lot more messages over the last few years from him, than from you regarding the DL program. In fact, when you started posting so much, I was surprised that someone who had been a member so long, had such a low post count.

I got accused of being a NW cheerleader for a number of years. NW was a great program, and they treated their elites great. I was very loyal, and banked millions of miles instead of using them, since the RTW award was great and that's what I was saving up for.

I was not happy about the merger, but I was more than willing to give them a chance. I started burning award miles as a preventative measure, and waited until January/February to see what the new year would bring.

DL showed their hand by sneaking a huge change into a promotion email. That came on top of many other small downhill moves. I was willing to give up a number of things, but when you act in such a devious manner, it shows that you want to pull one over on me.

GUWonder

The explanation your words above provide is a ridiculously poor attempt at an explanation, as I have no investments that may stand to gain in value from criticizing DL for what DL management has done in their devaluation of the value proposition of using DL miles earned from flying for award flights (even on DL's own planes).

Or do you consider having miles in all the major airlines' programs to be an "investment"?

mooper

I didn't say he was making money on stock. I said he *may* be making money on an investment that benefits from Delta bashing. Absent this motivation, then his obsession with bashing Delta while remaining a customer exhibits some pretty extreme similarities to Battered Wife Syndrome.

Not sure how this is relevant to the merits of Delta's program, but FWIW, I was a lurker for several years, finally joined in 2004, and didn't post regularly until my flying picked up markedly in 2007.

yngdiego

I use award tickets for 4 domestic trips a year. Every ~2 years I use one J class ticket for a vacation.

GUWonder

See my post above about how you would be off target in that regard.

Not at all. See my above post, as it also indicates how your above claim would be wrong about such too. DL management has not been and is not in a position to abuse me because I paid attention to the warning signs of and escaped DL's customer-abusing ways.

There's no obsession with bashing DL, but there is a positive purpose to be had in directing due criticism to where it is deserved .... no less so where the due criticism is considered unacceptable in the face of materially-conflicted interests.

25,000 - 32,500 DL miles for a domestic roundtrip coach award ticket that is valued at less than $221 is a pretty lousy return for the overwhelming majority of customers who accumulate miles primarily (or even almost exclusively) from flight activity -- that's ATL-IAD-ATL this week for you.