Award Goes from Low to Med as PM
#31
FlyerTalk Evangelist & Ambassador: China
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: DEN
Programs: DL DM/MM, UA 1K, AA Exp, HH Dia, WOH Glob, IHG Plat, Marriott Gold, NA EE, Hertz PC
Posts: 17,412
Well same itin seems to be semi working today. Right now logging in has NO effect on award avail on all the medium and high days. At least right now I'm the same as a PE compared to DL dirt...
#32
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: BZN
Programs: AA:LT Platinum DL:LT Gold UA:1P MAR:LT Titanium
Posts: 8,289
While I can't speak to international redemptions and I am aware (as are we all) that there are bugs in the system, it does work well enough for domestic redemptions that I've been able to redeem dozens of awards with relative ease over the past year. Given the choice between a system that functions "well enough" for domestic redemptions and not having one at all until it is perfectly functional, I'd take the former.
#33
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: SAN
Programs: DL MM, Marriott LT Titanium, AA EXP, Avis Chairmans
Posts: 1,399
While I can't speak to international redemptions and I am aware (as are we all) that there are bugs in the system, it does work well enough for domestic redemptions that I've been able to redeem dozens of awards with relative ease over the past year. Given the choice between a system that functions "well enough" for domestic redemptions and not having one at all until it is perfectly functional, I'd take the former.
I think it's strategic plan by DL to make award redemption so unsavory or use so many miles that it limits redemption or they get more miles for the same seat. The only other option is that DL IT staff and management are so incompetent that they can't make the system work, in which case, they should all be fired.
#34
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: BOS, PVG
Programs: United 1K and 1MM, Marriott Ambassador
Posts: 10,000
But the problem is that CLEARELY DL does NOT want to fix the problem. It's been ongoing for YEARS, and I think has gotten worse. This is not launching the space shuttle; it's tweaking the back-end systems. If they really wanted it working, a team of programmers could be put on the problem I bet most issues worked out in a couple of months or less.
I think it's strategic plan by DL to make award redemption so unsavory or use so many miles that it limits redemption or they get more miles for the same seat. The only other option is that DL IT staff and management are so incompetent that they can't make the system work, in which case, they should all be fired.
I think it's strategic plan by DL to make award redemption so unsavory or use so many miles that it limits redemption or they get more miles for the same seat. The only other option is that DL IT staff and management are so incompetent that they can't make the system work, in which case, they should all be fired.
Many DL flyers live near DL hubs. They are nice people. They take whatever DL gives to them, and put up with this for so long.
Or they fly mainly domestic and there isn't too much to complain about. DL's domestic upgrade and saver award availability seem all quite good.
You see they don't complain much.
After the merger, it's NW flyers (many of them fly int'l) who discovered such crap going on and started complaining on this board.
#35
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Inland Empire!
Programs: NW Plat (formerly), UA 1K, Hilton Silver, Hyatt Plat
Posts: 2,917
But the problem is that CLEARELY DL does NOT want to fix the problem. It's been ongoing for YEARS, and I think has gotten worse. This is not launching the space shuttle; it's tweaking the back-end systems. If they really wanted it working, a team of programmers could be put on the problem I bet most issues worked out in a couple of months or less.
I think it's strategic plan by DL to make award redemption so unsavory or use so many miles that it limits redemption or they get more miles for the same seat. The only other option is that DL IT staff and management are so incompetent that they can't make the system work, in which case, they should all be fired.
I think it's strategic plan by DL to make award redemption so unsavory or use so many miles that it limits redemption or they get more miles for the same seat. The only other option is that DL IT staff and management are so incompetent that they can't make the system work, in which case, they should all be fired.
And for this PM, I get ONLY super high redemptions, if there are any at all for flights to both Europe AND Asia in BE, on the order of 285K+ per ticket (up to 460K ), even using the NW calendar, trying different cities and dates.
#36
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: BZN
Programs: AA:LT Platinum DL:LT Gold UA:1P MAR:LT Titanium
Posts: 8,289
But the problem is that CLEARELY DL does NOT want to fix the problem. It's been ongoing for YEARS, and I think has gotten worse. This is not launching the space shuttle; it's tweaking the back-end systems. If they really wanted it working, a team of programmers could be put on the problem I bet most issues worked out in a couple of months or less.
Domestic redemptions - which I suspect represent the vast majority - work quite well. Buggy, yes, and certainly not as good as AA's calendar, but good enough to suit most purposes. I can speak from experience - I've redeemed dozens of domestic award tickets at the low/saver level for a variety of routes and time frames and seat classes over the past few years - with very few frustrations. International and complex routings do not appear to have the same track record, and this is certainly a legit complaint. So, to fix the minor domestic and presumably major international bugs, how much money should be spent, and when? I hire and manage programmers for similar (though not airline-related) projects in the course of running my company. Trust me - it isn't cheap nor quick. Delta could be looking at hundreds of thousands of dollars or more, and a team of people working for months. That doesn't mean they shouldn't do it - it just means that they must weigh carefully how bad the problems are versus what it will cost to fix them. Timing is a serious issue too. My guess is that they were ready to progress in fixing many of the problems a couple years ago, but then the merger news came around. It certainly doesn't make sense to spend massive sums of money to fix something that you know will be radically changed over the coming couple of years and will likely negate all the work (or at least make it inefficient). My hope is, and what I think would be logical for Delta, would be to invest heavily as soon as the systems are fully merged... maybe sometime this spring... to get it running as "best in class" along with many of their other offerings.
#37
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada
Programs: UA*1K MM
Posts: 23,274
This is ideal rather than have people be able to redeem for high-value premium cabin international awards.
And the argument that it would cost too much money to fix it, the merger is to blame, etc etc. bullocks. DL is simply much happier people redeeming for low-value domestics and maybe even hooking a sucker or two for extortionate, out of thin air mileage, international awards.
#38
Join Date: Mar 2006
Programs: AA EXP, UA 1K, F9 Elite, Hyatt Diamond, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Gold
Posts: 1,319
This inflationary mess with SkyPiles started when DL sold what was LEFT of its soul to AMEX. It's pretty sad that DL still can't manage to run an excellent program the way AA has. AA has Citi practically printing its own AAdvantage miles and yet the redemption opportunities are still great with AA. Of course, AA isn't allowing Citi to offer millions of 'free' EQM/MQM to kettles that never step foot on a plane...
#39
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: BZN
Programs: AA:LT Platinum DL:LT Gold UA:1P MAR:LT Titanium
Posts: 8,289
And the argument that it would cost too much money to fix it, the merger is to blame, etc etc. bullocks. DL is simply much happier people redeeming for low-value domestics and maybe even hooking a sucker or two for extortionate, out of thin air mileage, international awards.
However, I take issue with your "inflationary" assertion, unless you are being specific. Again, I wont speak to international much, as I don't have much experience or knowledge of it, but domestically I'm wondering what data you have that backs up your claim of inflation. In my experience with domestic redemption, availability might have even improved - not worsened - over the past couple of years. With NW integrated, options are even better, and I'm able to secure dozens of routes (especially last minute ones for business travel that give me an enormous value) . The Amex/Delta partnership has been a gold mine for me, Delta, and Amex, as far as I can tell.
#40
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: MSP
Programs: Fallen Plats, ex-WN CP, DYKWIW; still a Hilton Diamond & Club Cholula™ R.I.P. Super Plats
Posts: 25,415
But the problem is that CLEARELY DL does NOT want to fix the problem. It's been ongoing for YEARS, and I think has gotten worse. This is not launching the space shuttle; it's tweaking the back-end systems. If they really wanted it working, a team of programmers could be put on the problem I bet most issues worked out in a couple of months or less.
I think it's strategic plan by DL to make award redemption so unsavory or use so many miles that it limits redemption or they get more miles for the same seat. The only other option is that DL IT staff and management are so incompetent that they can't make the system work, in which case, they should all be fired.
I think it's strategic plan by DL to make award redemption so unsavory or use so many miles that it limits redemption or they get more miles for the same seat. The only other option is that DL IT staff and management are so incompetent that they can't make the system work, in which case, they should all be fired.
#41
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada
Programs: UA*1K MM
Posts: 23,274
I wouldn't redeem international awards even if I was obtaining, say 8+ CPM. Domestically, however, I'm thrilled to redeem at 2+ CPM (often equates to 3+), as I obtain my miles cheaply (anywhere from free to 1 CPM) and I'd need/want to spend tens of thousands of dollars annually on domestic travel if I weren't redeeming miles. In other words, saving myself a few thousand dollars annually at 2+ CPM domestically than spending on something I don't need/want much at 8+ CPM (for example) internationally.
One is simply stating the numerical facts that you yourself have outlined. Lots of 2+CPM awards, practically impossible to redeem those 8+CPM awards (unless they are at double/triple points)
Therefore, mathematically, DL is intentionally lowering the CPM value of redeemed awards by forcing people to redeem low value (2-3cpm) domestics or double priced internationallys vs those high value (8+cpm) ones you used to be able to get and can still get with other airlines.
Chances are, I will not travel Delta anymore apart from an upcoming $300 to Europe deal over Xmas (see MR forum) booked a long time ago, simply because the miles are well, as uselss, as the 100 trillion dollar note I picked up in Zimbabwe last year ....
I should just for kicks call Delta and ask how many miles would my itinerary I booked on nwa.com in October at 110k in Business cost.... lax-svo-lhr-cdg-evn/del-svo-nrt-lax
#42
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: BZN
Programs: AA:LT Platinum DL:LT Gold UA:1P MAR:LT Titanium
Posts: 8,289
My fault for putting too much emphasis on the CPM. When you said, "low value domestic awards", you are presuming that domestic awards have lower value than international ones. Going purely by CPM, this would be correct (and I just fed into the misconception by focusing on it), but CPM isn't everything. I get a better value out of a 2+ CPM domestic award ticket that I would have otherwise needed to purchase than a 5+ CPM international one for a trip I really don't care to take. Using an analogy outside of the airline industry: If you were a an avid golfer but hated skiing, would you rather redeem the same award (one you aren't going to sell) for a $1,000 club or a $2,000 pair of skis? My point is that CPM isn't everything... plenty of us have much more value in lower-CPM domestic redemptions than higher-CPM international ones, and perhaps they are purposefully catering to us because we are more common or they otherwise feel it is in their business interest to do so?
#43
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: HNL
Programs: DL PM/1MM, BW DE (lifetime), HH DE, Marriott PE (lifetime), National Emerald Executive
Posts: 7,195
But the problem is that CLEARELY DL does NOT want to fix the problem. It's been ongoing for YEARS, and I think has gotten worse. This is not launching the space shuttle; it's tweaking the back-end systems. If they really wanted it working, a team of programmers could be put on the problem I bet most issues worked out in a couple of months or less.
But, of course the powers that be at Delta chose not to go the obvious route, as that would (gasp!) result in a better level of service to customers, whom Delta has worked so hard to lower and continually lower the expectations of.
#44
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 41,824
#45
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Inland Empire!
Programs: NW Plat (formerly), UA 1K, Hilton Silver, Hyatt Plat
Posts: 2,917
The solution to this was easy: drop delta.com and change delta.com --> nwa.com, including, of course, the booking system.
But, of course the powers that be at Delta chose not to go the obvious route, as that would (gasp!) result in a better level of service to customers, whom Delta has worked so hard to lower and continually lower the expectations of.
But, of course the powers that be at Delta chose not to go the obvious route, as that would (gasp!) result in a better level of service to customers, whom Delta has worked so hard to lower and continually lower the expectations of.
Wasn't that "high" award supposed to open up inventory that included the last seat on the flight????