Award Goes from Low to Med as PM

Old Nov 15, 2009, 12:07 am
  #31  
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Well same itin seems to be semi working today. Right now logging in has NO effect on award avail on all the medium and high days. At least right now I'm the same as a PE compared to DL dirt...
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Old Nov 15, 2009, 7:43 am
  #32  
 
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Originally Posted by STBCypriot
So why doesn't DL just shut it down and put it back up when and if they ever fix it?
While I can't speak to international redemptions and I am aware (as are we all) that there are bugs in the system, it does work well enough for domestic redemptions that I've been able to redeem dozens of awards with relative ease over the past year. Given the choice between a system that functions "well enough" for domestic redemptions and not having one at all until it is perfectly functional, I'd take the former.
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Old Nov 15, 2009, 9:27 am
  #33  
 
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Originally Posted by mooper
While I can't speak to international redemptions and I am aware (as are we all) that there are bugs in the system, it does work well enough for domestic redemptions that I've been able to redeem dozens of awards with relative ease over the past year. Given the choice between a system that functions "well enough" for domestic redemptions and not having one at all until it is perfectly functional, I'd take the former.
But the problem is that CLEARELY DL does NOT want to fix the problem. It's been ongoing for YEARS, and I think has gotten worse. This is not launching the space shuttle; it's tweaking the back-end systems. If they really wanted it working, a team of programmers could be put on the problem I bet most issues worked out in a couple of months or less.

I think it's strategic plan by DL to make award redemption so unsavory or use so many miles that it limits redemption or they get more miles for the same seat. The only other option is that DL IT staff and management are so incompetent that they can't make the system work, in which case, they should all be fired.
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Old Nov 15, 2009, 10:22 am
  #34  
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Originally Posted by yngdiego
But the problem is that CLEARELY DL does NOT want to fix the problem. It's been ongoing for YEARS, and I think has gotten worse. This is not launching the space shuttle; it's tweaking the back-end systems. If they really wanted it working, a team of programmers could be put on the problem I bet most issues worked out in a couple of months or less.

I think it's strategic plan by DL to make award redemption so unsavory or use so many miles that it limits redemption or they get more miles for the same seat. The only other option is that DL IT staff and management are so incompetent that they can't make the system work, in which case, they should all be fired.
You hit the nail...

Many DL flyers live near DL hubs. They are nice people. They take whatever DL gives to them, and put up with this for so long.

Or they fly mainly domestic and there isn't too much to complain about. DL's domestic upgrade and saver award availability seem all quite good.

You see they don't complain much.

After the merger, it's NW flyers (many of them fly int'l) who discovered such crap going on and started complaining on this board.
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Old Nov 15, 2009, 10:37 am
  #35  
 
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Originally Posted by yngdiego
But the problem is that CLEARELY DL does NOT want to fix the problem. It's been ongoing for YEARS, and I think has gotten worse. This is not launching the space shuttle; it's tweaking the back-end systems. If they really wanted it working, a team of programmers could be put on the problem I bet most issues worked out in a couple of months or less.

I think it's strategic plan by DL to make award redemption so unsavory or use so many miles that it limits redemption or they get more miles for the same seat. The only other option is that DL IT staff and management are so incompetent that they can't make the system work, in which case, they should all be fired.
The problem must be that DL has instructed the IT folks to not fix the award engine. IT is now in the hands of former NW personnel that had a functional award engine before the merger. No doubt they have been instructed to ignore the travesty that is the DL award engine, to fix other more serious issues. Unfortunately, that excuse is just that, an excuse. I really don't care that this is a mega-merger... the fact that THEIR problem is OUR problem is inexcusable. In my job I am expected to make sure everything works right, and I have the same expectations for DL.

And for this PM, I get ONLY super high redemptions, if there are any at all for flights to both Europe AND Asia in BE, on the order of 285K+ per ticket (up to 460K ), even using the NW calendar, trying different cities and dates.
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Old Nov 15, 2009, 11:07 am
  #36  
 
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Originally Posted by yngdiego
But the problem is that CLEARELY DL does NOT want to fix the problem. It's been ongoing for YEARS, and I think has gotten worse. This is not launching the space shuttle; it's tweaking the back-end systems. If they really wanted it working, a team of programmers could be put on the problem I bet most issues worked out in a couple of months or less.
You are correct that a complete fix simply means investing enough in programming to get it done. You are also correct that the problems have been around for years (though some have been fixed, while new ones have arisen as a result of program changes). No one questions those two things, and no one would argue that it would be ideal to have the calendar work perfectly, and years ago. The question is: for the degree of problems that exist, how much does it make sense to spend fixing them, and when?

Domestic redemptions - which I suspect represent the vast majority - work quite well. Buggy, yes, and certainly not as good as AA's calendar, but good enough to suit most purposes. I can speak from experience - I've redeemed dozens of domestic award tickets at the low/saver level for a variety of routes and time frames and seat classes over the past few years - with very few frustrations. International and complex routings do not appear to have the same track record, and this is certainly a legit complaint. So, to fix the minor domestic and presumably major international bugs, how much money should be spent, and when? I hire and manage programmers for similar (though not airline-related) projects in the course of running my company. Trust me - it isn't cheap nor quick. Delta could be looking at hundreds of thousands of dollars or more, and a team of people working for months. That doesn't mean they shouldn't do it - it just means that they must weigh carefully how bad the problems are versus what it will cost to fix them. Timing is a serious issue too. My guess is that they were ready to progress in fixing many of the problems a couple years ago, but then the merger news came around. It certainly doesn't make sense to spend massive sums of money to fix something that you know will be radically changed over the coming couple of years and will likely negate all the work (or at least make it inefficient). My hope is, and what I think would be logical for Delta, would be to invest heavily as soon as the systems are fully merged... maybe sometime this spring... to get it running as "best in class" along with many of their other offerings.
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Old Nov 15, 2009, 11:14 am
  #37  
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Originally Posted by mooper

Domestic redemptions - which I suspect represent the vast majority - work quite well.
Ding ding ding! Exactly why Delta is intentionally not fixing the award booking engine, people spending their miles on low-value domestic awards on seats that would probably be empty otherwise, on Delta metal, which costs Delta very little.
This is ideal rather than have people be able to redeem for high-value premium cabin international awards.

And the argument that it would cost too much money to fix it, the merger is to blame, etc etc. bullocks. DL is simply much happier people redeeming for low-value domestics and maybe even hooking a sucker or two for extortionate, out of thin air mileage, international awards.
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Old Nov 15, 2009, 11:15 am
  #38  
 
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This inflationary mess with SkyPiles started when DL sold what was LEFT of its soul to AMEX. It's pretty sad that DL still can't manage to run an excellent program the way AA has. AA has Citi practically printing its own AAdvantage miles and yet the redemption opportunities are still great with AA. Of course, AA isn't allowing Citi to offer millions of 'free' EQM/MQM to kettles that never step foot on a plane...
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Old Nov 15, 2009, 11:37 am
  #39  
 
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Originally Posted by rankourabu
...people spending their miles on low-value domestic awards on seats that would probably be empty otherwise, on Delta metal, which costs Delta very little.
This is ideal rather than have people be able to redeem for high-value premium cabin international awards.
Perhaps if you feel you'd get a better value/use of miles for international awards, you should try another airline. However, you are out of line to dictate what value others assign to their domestic redemptions. For me - and I'm certainly speaking only for myself - I don't have much use for international redemptions. In most (not all) cases, I wouldn't redeem international awards even if I was obtaining, say 8+ CPM. Domestically, however, I'm thrilled to redeem at 2+ CPM (often equates to 3+), as I obtain my miles cheaply (anywhere from free to 1 CPM) and I'd need/want to spend tens of thousands of dollars annually on domestic travel if I weren't redeeming miles. In other words, saving myself a few thousand dollars annually at 2+ CPM domestically than spending on something I don't need/want much at 8+ CPM (for example) internationally. I'm describing my own situation, and perhaps I'm unique, but I suspect that there are others like me... perhaps even enough like me that Delta feels that domestic is more important. (Btw, don't forget that international isn't completely broken... even I've done a handful of such redemptions in the past couple of years at low/saver level, but admittedly with more of a hassle.)

Originally Posted by rankourabu
And the argument that it would cost too much money to fix it, the merger is to blame, etc etc. bullocks. DL is simply much happier people redeeming for low-value domestics and maybe even hooking a sucker or two for extortionate, out of thin air mileage, international awards.
I didn't argue that it would cost too much to fix, and I don't think I've seen anyone else argue this. I argued that the cost must be weighed carefully against the degree of problems, what the problems are and who they affect, and the timing of the fix especially given the merger changes.

Originally Posted by denCSA
This inflationary mess with SkyPiles started when DL sold what was LEFT of its soul to AMEX. It's pretty sad that DL still can't manage to run an excellent program the way AA has.
I agree with you on AA... I have the most superb experiences redeeming with them. Calendar is superb, low/saver availability is about on par with Delta, etc. I wish they'd serve more of the routes I use, but that's an economic issue that I can't complain about.

However, I take issue with your "inflationary" assertion, unless you are being specific. Again, I wont speak to international much, as I don't have much experience or knowledge of it, but domestically I'm wondering what data you have that backs up your claim of inflation. In my experience with domestic redemption, availability might have even improved - not worsened - over the past couple of years. With NW integrated, options are even better, and I'm able to secure dozens of routes (especially last minute ones for business travel that give me an enormous value) . The Amex/Delta partnership has been a gold mine for me, Delta, and Amex, as far as I can tell.
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Old Nov 15, 2009, 11:44 am
  #40  
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Originally Posted by yngdiego
But the problem is that CLEARELY DL does NOT want to fix the problem. It's been ongoing for YEARS, and I think has gotten worse. This is not launching the space shuttle; it's tweaking the back-end systems. If they really wanted it working, a team of programmers could be put on the problem I bet most issues worked out in a couple of months or less.

I think it's strategic plan by DL to make award redemption so unsavory or use so many miles that it limits redemption or they get more miles for the same seat. The only other option is that DL IT staff and management are so incompetent that they can't make the system work, in which case, they should all be fired.
Another quite viable option is for customers to accumulate miles on other airlines. Our CO miles accumulated earlier this year saved the day when I need to book an award ticket for my wife to join me in Sweden next month. The NW options (none, actually) and DL options were truly pathetic.
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Old Nov 15, 2009, 11:51 am
  #41  
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Originally Posted by mooper
I wouldn't redeem international awards even if I was obtaining, say 8+ CPM. Domestically, however, I'm thrilled to redeem at 2+ CPM (often equates to 3+), as I obtain my miles cheaply (anywhere from free to 1 CPM) and I'd need/want to spend tens of thousands of dollars annually on domestic travel if I weren't redeeming miles. In other words, saving myself a few thousand dollars annually at 2+ CPM domestically than spending on something I don't need/want much at 8+ CPM (for example) internationally.
*sigh* no one is questioning personal value one places on their miles.

One is simply stating the numerical facts that you yourself have outlined. Lots of 2+CPM awards, practically impossible to redeem those 8+CPM awards (unless they are at double/triple points)
Therefore, mathematically, DL is intentionally lowering the CPM value of redeemed awards by forcing people to redeem low value (2-3cpm) domestics or double priced internationallys vs those high value (8+cpm) ones you used to be able to get and can still get with other airlines.

Chances are, I will not travel Delta anymore apart from an upcoming $300 to Europe deal over Xmas (see MR forum) booked a long time ago, simply because the miles are well, as uselss, as the 100 trillion dollar note I picked up in Zimbabwe last year ....

I should just for kicks call Delta and ask how many miles would my itinerary I booked on nwa.com in October at 110k in Business cost.... lax-svo-lhr-cdg-evn/del-svo-nrt-lax
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Old Nov 15, 2009, 12:22 pm
  #42  
 
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Originally Posted by rankourabu
*sigh* no one is questioning personal value one places on their miles.
My fault for putting too much emphasis on the CPM. When you said, "low value domestic awards", you are presuming that domestic awards have lower value than international ones. Going purely by CPM, this would be correct (and I just fed into the misconception by focusing on it), but CPM isn't everything. I get a better value out of a 2+ CPM domestic award ticket that I would have otherwise needed to purchase than a 5+ CPM international one for a trip I really don't care to take. Using an analogy outside of the airline industry: If you were a an avid golfer but hated skiing, would you rather redeem the same award (one you aren't going to sell) for a $1,000 club or a $2,000 pair of skis? My point is that CPM isn't everything... plenty of us have much more value in lower-CPM domestic redemptions than higher-CPM international ones, and perhaps they are purposefully catering to us because we are more common or they otherwise feel it is in their business interest to do so?
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Old Nov 15, 2009, 12:52 pm
  #43  
 
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Originally Posted by yngdiego
But the problem is that CLEARELY DL does NOT want to fix the problem. It's been ongoing for YEARS, and I think has gotten worse. This is not launching the space shuttle; it's tweaking the back-end systems. If they really wanted it working, a team of programmers could be put on the problem I bet most issues worked out in a couple of months or less.
The solution to this was easy: drop delta.com and change delta.com --> nwa.com, including, of course, the booking system.

But, of course the powers that be at Delta chose not to go the obvious route, as that would (gasp!) result in a better level of service to customers, whom Delta has worked so hard to lower and continually lower the expectations of.
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Old Nov 15, 2009, 12:56 pm
  #44  
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Originally Posted by mooper
If you were a an avid golfer but hated skiing, would you rather redeem the same award (one you aren't going to sell) for a $1,000 club or a $2,000 pair of skis?
That's easy! I would take the skis and trade them for two golf clubs.
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Old Nov 15, 2009, 1:29 pm
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Originally Posted by RealHJ
The solution to this was easy: drop delta.com and change delta.com --> nwa.com, including, of course, the booking system.

But, of course the powers that be at Delta chose not to go the obvious route, as that would (gasp!) result in a better level of service to customers, whom Delta has worked so hard to lower and continually lower the expectations of.
Unfortunately, nwa.com has been dultafied. I am seeing only super high awards for intl. BE class awards. No choices to select from.... awards to Europe and Asia at 185k each way! No middle choice options at all.


Wasn't that "high" award supposed to open up inventory that included the last seat on the flight????
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