radonc1

These is a report on the cruise industry's newest recommendations for getting back to cruising.

Top Cruise Lines Announce Health Guidelines for Safe Return of Sailings

"Highlights of the core elements include testing for every passenger and crew member before departure; mandatory facial coverings; universal social distancing protocols; updated air management and ventilation strategies; risk-based response plans; advance arrangements for shoreside quarantine, medical facilities and transportation; strict rules for shore excursions; and more"

For those who are really interested in what this really means, below is the link to the actual report (all 56 pages of it) which we can certainly discuss over the next several months since it is obvious that there are lots of parts that have to be implemented before anyone gets approval from the USA to start sailing again. (This is a PDF report).

Healthy Sail Panel Full Recommendations

What I find interesting is that we as passengers have brought up the same concerns in various threads the same concerns that are addressed in this document. However, I think that we can spend plenty of time evaluating it (and commenting, of course).

The biggest question is whether the implementation of these guidelines will get passengers back on cruises.

Let the discussions begin.

Badenoch

They can print all the fancy brochures laden with long-winded "policy" they like but until they prove they will follow and enforce their own guidelines it's just so much hot air. Hurtigruten had policy too that was promptly ignored by every level of its organization.

And the deal breaker for many countries will be this demand from the cruise lines.

The above is an attempt by the cruise lines to dump off any passenger who tests positive and make them the responsibility of the host country. No thanks.

david55

Yet every single cruise line brochure I have gotten in the last month (Oceanic, Scenic, Regent, etc.) not a ONE mentions covid or new protocols. It is as if nothing ever happened. Certainly doesn't ooze confidence and safety.

radonc1

Would you mind providing the citation for your quote?

I could not find it either in the magazine report or the cruise report PDF within the links provided above. TIA

YVR Cockroach

Recommendation 55, Pg 52.

radonc1

Thank you

I believe that we all agreed that until the international community would agree on protocols for permitting such a visit to port or a transfer without shutting down a cruise in midstream, that cruises were basically hosed.
This recommendation basically states just that.

radonc1

This new document was published 9/21/20, so I suspect that brochures that were printed before this date would be lacking mention of it.

I really doubt that any cruise line would wander singlehandedly into this contentious arena. Nor would they want to print something that might get negated by the consensus agreement.

Easier just to not bring it up until now. What will be interesting is seeing how cruise lines respond to it in their advertising.

david55

To me it is the head in the sand mentality...give me a cruise line that at least mentions covid and some of their protocals....it is not as if they haven't been thinking about it for the last 6 months.

radonc1

I would think that as an industry in crisis, they would want to present a unified plank in addressing serious issues affecting their primary product.

I surmise that cruise lines knew that this paper was in process, and rather than individually print and distribute potentially incorrect information in their brochures, they simply didn't address Covid specifically.

We now have a 66 page industry manifesto addressing all of those concerns. As I have previously said, I believe that the ball is literally out of the industry's court. The paper now addresses the barriers they face, but for future cruising, the questions that have been detailed will only be answered by governmental bodies.

freecia

You are referring to the Healthy Sail pdf? That's a joint initiative from RCL and NCL. They account for ~ 32% of the market share https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruise...t_cruise_lines

Carnival Corp was the largest single cruise corp and is going by CLIA https://www.carnival.com/health-and-...g-updates.aspx
So not really an industry manifesto and definitely different levels of transparency?*

CLIA's website has updated a bit since I looked at it earlier this week, but still not very detailed regarding specifics. The audience seems to be a mix of cruise lines and passengers and contents feels like mostly talking points. This fits in line with its role as an trade association and gives cruise lines some basic points to print in those brochures.

* Cruise lines should be aware some potential cruisers are keeping score. Transparency and enforcement are key around this kind of an issue as is the perception that a company is behaving with (some) integrity.

747FC

I note that none of the expert panel are experts in aerosol spread or engineering controls related to building air flow patterns. Hmmm...

freecia

Shifting thread to here:
I remember a prolific CC poster who typically sailed in suites insisted that there would be the normal suite service standards if one caught SARS-CoV-2 (or was it if the ship was quarantined due to prevalent spread??). It was prior to the No Sail order taking effect. Her belief was not the belief of many including myself. While I think it'd be peculiar if someone's sticking point with all this was if you get butler service & suite amenities if you're COVID positive, close contact, or full ship lockdown, I'm guessing it is for some. Similarly some people would book a Jr. Suite or balcony in case the sailing goes to Diamond Princess mode.

Containment isolation and quarantine is actually addressed in recommendations 48 & 49.

Isolation for positives and presumptive positives due to symptoms will be in a cabin of cruise line's choosing. They recommend adjusting the cabin(s) for easy sterilization and negative pressure. Quarantine for close contact, possibly in own cabin. Neither isolation nor quarantine will get anything but delivered food, drink, and daily healthcare visits in person or virtually via phone. Certainly not butler or turndown service. They don't spell it out the cessation of services but they do say what you do get (basically you won't starve or be without medical consult). Unnecessary contact points to a contagion risk isn't logical.

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The press release does state "The CLIA Global Board unanimously voted to adopt all of the listed core elements for an initial restart of limited operations in the Americas and, most important, operations related to U.S. ports."
https://cruising.org/en/news-and-res...alth-protocols
It still lists highlight of core elements as the same six elements as their web page.

I'm still not sure they're all on the same page as six bullet points vs 69 page document which isn't linked on the above press release...
Some language still makes me wonder "The cruise lines’ commitment to conduct 100% testing for all passengers and crew is significant and unique as compared to any other sector."
- Prime Minister of Barbados Mia Mottley, who co-chairs the Americas Cruise Tourism Task Force

The cruise line isn't conducting 100% pre-boarding testing in the Healthy Sail recommendations. It does recommend cruise lines do so for crew members prior to boarding if it is cost and technologically feasible. They ask passengers and crew for a negative test result within five days to 24 hours of boarding which should be shared with the cruise line. The Panel recommends that the cruise operators develop their own program for regular testing of all crew members for surveillance purposes (Recommendation 2).

Badenoch

Sure. I'm going to risk being dumped in a developing country left to a "private provider" should I acquire CV-19. The objective of a cruise line is to dump anyone who tests positive at the first available opportunity. Unless their "private provider" is fully equipped with an ICU-level facility their passenger or crew will be the responsibility of the local government if they require intensive care.

radonc1

Perhaps they used the term "private provider" in order to explicitly differentiate from public or national health care systems???

In many countries, private providers are far superior to the facilities and physicians available to the general populous. (An example might be Mexico, perhaps).

You are correct that these providers would need to certify the ability to care for all levels of Covid infection. At the same time, the passengers would have to certify to having the means to pay for the care (insurance proof or surety bond).

Badenoch

A contrary example would be Canada where private health care is except for specific exclusions not permitted. The COVID patient dumped on a nation by a cruise line would become the responsibility of the government at some stage. The prospect of a single Canadian being denied an ICU bed or a ventilator because the space was being occupied by a leisure cruiser dumped on us by the cruise lines is, to put it mildly, not acceptable.

What the cruise lines don't suggest is improving their onboard medical care facilities to include ICU capability to care for a gravely ill COVID patient. Much easier to deposit them on shore and sail off into the sunset.