Badenoch

Badenoch

And in typical fashion the cruise line's story is at odds with what officials are saying.

https://www.maritime-executive.com/a...-norway-cruise

No reason to suspect COVID-19? They have sick crew. There's a global pandemic underway and these dummies had "no reason to suspect COVID-19."

Meanwhile another article says

AT LEAST 33 CREW MEMBERS ABOARD HURTIGRUTEN SHIP NOW HAVE COVID-19 AFTER SVALBARD VOYAGE; QUARANTINE FOR ALL PASSENGERS FROM TRIP AND PREVIOUS ONE ORDERED AFTER ONE TESTS POSITIVE | icepeople

This is starting to sound like the Ruby Princess all over again.

radonc1

Sadly, this just confirms our fears on cruising in the Covid era. One just does not know who is going to be a spreader or not, and packing people into a limited space environment for a period of time only invites stories such as above.

However, I think that one could get cruises underway again. However, it will take rapid 15 minute testing done on a daily basis for all passengers and crew. Mitigation with masks would also be necessary and ability to isolate the test positive passenger/crew would be needed.

You also would have to limit off boat activity to prevent passengers and crew from mingling with shore residents.

Finally, one would also have to have some way of off-loading the acutely ill passenger or crew without creating an international incident.

Doesn't the above sound like fun

Badenoch

The official story of the cruise line becomes even more suspect

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-...esume-22452931

This begs the question why the cruise line felt it necessary to isolate the employees but only test them after the ship disembarked passengers leaving them to potentially spread the virus in their communities. What symptoms did they have that weren't COVID-19 but were sufficient to have them isolated?

freecia

They did take some (minimal) measures with some testing for non-European crew, no shore mingling, reduced capacity, no buffet. Masks only required on deck ( neither indoors or necessarily close distance)
https://www.usatoday.com/story/trave...ne/5392824002/
https://www.usatoday.com/story/trave...ay/5562151002/

I mentioned an Aida cruise which was scheduled on another thread - 10 crew members test positive before sailing on their second tests in Germany. First tests were in home country before travel and they were negative.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/trave...19/5525310002/

Badenoch

More crew members have tested positive, now 36 and counting. It is also possible passengers on an earlier cruise were infected.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/trave...ay/5562151002/

freecia

6.6% positivity rate so far based on first and second sailing passengers + crew but currently much higher at 22.7% positivity if they've only tested crew members and all test results have returned. Hopefully reality lies somewhere between the two. Most crew members are still (stuck) onboard again, too.

At this rate, employers in "re-opened" areas should request a negative test 3-7 days after return from a higher risk area (including cruises, alas, based on current CDC data), with full expectation of genuine self isolation of all household members during that period, before being allowed back into the office.

Badenoch

It is outrageous that the cruise line had sick crew, isolated them, let passengers leave and are now claiming the symptoms weren't COVID when they actually were. Should the cruise line's egregious behavior result in an outbreak, illness or death among people who weren't on the cruise they should be held liable civilly and criminally.

YVR Cockroach

Another afflicted small-ish ship cruise

https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/news...ench-polynesia

freecia

Perhaps cruise lines should have to give infectious disease control over to independent public health officers, especially in the countries they are transiting. Hurtigruten is flagged in Norway and owner Hurtigruten AS is registered in Norway. Norway did issue an investigation for Viking Seas so it will probably depend on Norwegian laws and regulations for public health.

Norway's numbers when these cruises started
https://www.fhi.no/en/id/infectious-...ports-COVID19/
https://www.fhi.no/en/publ/2020/week...s-og-covid-19/

Badenoch

The passengers on the Paul Gauguin are quarantined in their cabins. It is quite possible this is the scenario Hurtigruten was trying to avoid and convinced itself their infected crew weren't showing COVID symptoms when they were actually infected. It's much easier for the cruise line if the passengers are free to mill about in the community instead of having to quarantine on board, feed and be responsible for them. That their passengers might be infecting others evidently isn't their concern.

freecia

This isn't the first time I've read this reasoning https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topi...rs-to-covid19/ though that was before the CDC issued the cruise ban.

Some posters thought the Captain was keeping passenger comfort in mind with passenger interests at heart. One poster who believed in Celebrity Solstice's command crew made the right choice (at that time) also called this incident "unfortunate" to which I think another cruiser replied with the land odds rather well in comparison. Sad yes, not entirely same land odds also likely yes. CDC data with just the crew also shows land odds aren't the same as cruise odds. Crew are probably still in the same cramped quarters and mess hall. Perhaps turn the helipad/outdoor crew bar into crew dining space if that's where people tend to mingle and enforce masks in the back of the house on and off duty, too, if sufficient distance and ventilation can't be maintained.

Some also trust in the PR put forth by cruise corporations that appropriate precautions (so far) are/were being taken. AIDA's crew negative before departure, pre-cruise quarantine, test again catching now positives in that regard is probably a good protocol. However they can't/haven't enforce on the same from passengers.

It isn't that I hate cruise ships (I think many of us have enjoyed various kinds of cruises in past on this forum) but understanding pandemics with pretty decent human retransmission, especially if asymptomatic viral load also significantly contributes to transmission, means the majority of individuals need to step up to help the community achieve desired outcomes as best possible. I also don't think most US mass market cruisers really want to comply to prudent measures as @radonc1 mentioned. There's also the question of quarantining at their own cost (including if the ship gets quarantined at sea or land for two weeks - no more free room & board) and basically not being eligible for third party travel health insurance because actuaries know having to underwrite it would likely be really expensive and not entirely predictable costs based on varying regulations. I also got the impression that repatriation flights aren't usually free. Inbound immigration travel quarantines in Singapore certainly are not. This in addition to the likely prudent independent public health officer who may change your short cruise to a Diamond Princess redux onboard or Grand Princess quarantine on land to protect the health interests of those on land.

Many US home port cruises have itineraries which sail from rather high transmission hotspots, not even nearly as low as Germany or Norway, even accounting for some staff members who underwent testing and/or quarantines. Even if they only opened to Canadians aboard chartered flights, some level of contact with local workers (like check in staff, supply provisions, waste management) and local indoor facilities for boarding would likely be necessary. TUI (partially owned by RCL) had such chartered plane + cruise and non-US start points for German cruisers in the Caribbean. That the Gaugin also hit upon this issue so early on with a case already onboard on the first cruise which allowed non-locals.... I don't know which resort will be willing to quarantine everyone on land if they were fervently hoping to attract international tourists.

freecia

5 Crew for Mein Schiff 1 also tested positive before boarding (via Google Translate)
https://www.kreuzfahrt-aktuelles.de/...getestet/7710/

freecia

If the news article is correct, it's even worse (and even more replay of Celebrity Eclipse story).

A municipality chief of Hadsel in Vesterålen notified the cruise line after a passenger from the first cruise tested positive on Wednesday and advised the cruise line to contact all former passengers immediately.
https://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/...b3feKsO-00Q748
"Nevertheless, Hurtigruten says on Friday night that they had no suspicion of corona infection on board the MS "Roald Amundsen" before the passengers were released.
...Ege writes that no other guests or crew on the two sailings had reported symptoms or illness. Others in the guest's travel companion have also tested negative after they returned home from the trip with Hurtigruten.

- Therefore, it was originally concluded that it was most likely that the guest was not infected on board. With the new information that has arrived today, we have now chosen to contact all guests on the last two sailings."


SAS didn't let a family of Hurtigruten passengers fly as they'd heard the news while the passengers had not https://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/...-surrealistisk Hurtigruten didn't have contingency plans & after care plans ready other than SMS and email alerts which failed to be sent to many.
"After VG was in contact with Samuelsen for the first time, Samuelsen and three or four other families were picked up by a bus around 20.15 and accommodated in apartments in the center of Tromsø, under the auspices of Hurtigruten.

The municipal chief also says that Hurtigruten must have sent an SMS to all passengers. Neither Samuelsen nor other passengers VG has been in contact with have received it.- Now we know that we have a place to sleep and that we can get food. We do not know if we will be tested, who is responsible, what plans Hurtigruten has to get us home. We are not coming home, says Samuelsen.

VG has been in contact with Hurtigruten, but so far has not received an answer to this specific case."

Badenoch

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/corona...aug2-1.5672671