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Holland America Selling Ships

Holland America Selling Ships

Old Jul 15, 20, 3:42 pm
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Holland America Selling Ships

Holland America just announced the sale of four ships. The Maasdam and Veendam, the last of their relatively smaller S-class ships, have been sold and will leave the fleet almost immediately in August 2020. The Amsterdam and Rotterdam have been sold and will leave the fleet some time this coming fall. None of the ships will sail again under the Holland America flag and all cruises in them have been cancelled. Apparently Holland America will fill in some of the cancelled itineraries with existing ships but obviously they canít cut four ships at once and still sail all the itineraries with the remaining fleet.
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Old Jul 15, 20, 3:47 pm
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All planned itineraries into the future are speculative, fictional, or speculative fiction at any rate. I'm kind or surprised the Zaandam and Volendam aren't going too (sister "R" class ships to the Rotterdam and Amsterdam, both of which have higher electrical generative capacity and cruising higher speeds than the Zaandam and Vlendam).

Over at Cruise Critic, there has been a lot of speculation for weeks that the HAL brand isn't going to survive.
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Old Jul 15, 20, 4:47 pm
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Originally Posted by YVR Cockroach View Post
All planned itineraries into the future are speculative, fictional, or speculative fiction at any rate. I'm kind or surprised the Zaandam and Volendam aren't going too (sister "R" class ships to the Rotterdam and Amsterdam, both of which have higher electrical generative capacity and cruising higher speeds than the Zaandam and Vlendam).

Over at Cruise Critic, there has been a lot of speculation for weeks that the HAL brand isn't going to survive.
I agree about the itineraries, especially those that were in the rest of 2020 and early 2021. I too was surprised about the choice of the Amsterdam and Rotterdam over the Zaandam and Volendam and I would have bet the reverse. Maybe whoever bought the Rotterdam and Amsterdam wanted them for the very reasons you mentioned over the other two.

As for whether or not the Holland America brand will survive I canít say. I donít make myself very popular on Cruise Critic when I say I donít see a huge difference between Princess and Holland America. They easily could be blended and downsized at the same time. Of course I also donít garner much popularity for my skeptical view that we have not seen the end of downsizing. Silversea, which was just totally acquired by RCL, just announced a delay in two planned new builds and a delay in the work on the Silver Wind to make her an expedition ship. The long pole in the tent will be when will the world get Covid-19 under control. Another missed North American season will bring many umbrella cruise corporations to their knees.
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Old Jul 16, 20, 6:02 am
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Holland America is part of Carnival Corporation, which is selling ships across several brands. According to some reports, a total of 13 ships are to be scrapped or sold from Carnival's various cruise lines.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/carniv...sold-scrapped/
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Old Jul 16, 20, 10:18 am
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Is dispensing with smaller ships because larger ships might better accommodate social distancing?
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Old Jul 16, 20, 12:32 pm
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Originally Posted by Badenoch View Post
Is dispensing with smaller ships because larger ships might better accommodate social distancing?
Iím sure that is a factor. You also have four older and less efficient ships due for renovation or retirement. Obviously they think they have more ships than the near term demand. Considering they basically arenít getting any initial money from the sale it really also comes off as a cost cutting move.
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Old Jul 16, 20, 12:32 pm
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Originally Posted by Badenoch View Post
Is dispensing with smaller ships because larger ships might better accommodate social distancing?
We have a friend who is a big honcho in the travel industry. He recently was on a conference call and the results of several survey's were revealed. 37% of passengers said they will not fly until a vaccine. 68% polled said they would NEVER go on a cruise ship. The industry will have to re-invent itself to survive. He believes the future of cruising is in smaller ships and the days of the mega ships are over.
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Old Jul 16, 20, 2:22 pm
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I doubt if it's for social distancing reasonspurposes. More like older and less efficient ships (newer larger ships having better economies of scale

Carnival Corp.pledged 86 ships (of it's then 105 ship fleet) as collateral so maybe they're raising money by selling the unpledged.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/ca...ead-2020-04-01

I imagine in the event of a bankruptcy, Carnival can make a bid to buy back the ships at some fraction of debt owed as the number of potential buyers for cruise ships is probably very limited.
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Old Jul 17, 20, 7:25 am
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Originally Posted by david55 View Post
We have a friend who is a big honcho in the travel industry. He recently was on a conference call and the results of several survey's were revealed. 37% of passengers said they will not fly until a vaccine. 68% polled said they would NEVER go on a cruise ship. The industry will have to re-invent itself to survive. He believes the future of cruising is in smaller ships and the days of the mega ships are over.
The whole survey would be interesting. The 68% saying they would never get on a cruise ship certainly sticks out. Of course what we donít know is that 68% people who have or used to cruise and now wonít? While cruising is a major vacation choice and big business it really only attracts a relatively small percentage of the population. I know way more people who have no interest in cruising than ones who do and that has nothing to do with the present situation. Not saying this pandemic wonít drive people away from cruising who are past cruisers and it certainly isnít going to make cruising enticing to potential new cruisers.
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Old Jul 17, 20, 7:52 am
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Originally Posted by Randyk47 View Post
The whole survey would be interesting. The 68% saying they would never get on a cruise ship certainly sticks out. Of course what we donít know is that 68% people who have or used to cruise and now wonít? While cruising is a major vacation choice and big business it really only attracts a relatively small percentage of the population. I know way more people who have no interest in cruising than ones who do and that has nothing to do with the present situation. Not saying this pandemic wonít drive people away from cruising who are past cruisers and it certainly isnít going to make cruising enticing to potential new cruisers.
The survey is public domain so I have no problem with posting it.....I was wrong it is 61% that would never cruise.

https://ilovebonaire.com/wp-content/...-19-travel.pdf
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Old Jul 17, 20, 7:57 am
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Originally Posted by david55 View Post
The survey is public domain so I have no problem with posting it.....I was wrong it is 61% that would never cruise.

https://ilovebonaire.com/wp-content/...-19-travel.pdf
87 percent of respondents would never cruise or won't until there is a vaccine? The odds on the major lines staying afloat literally and figuratively are very slim.
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Old Jul 17, 20, 8:40 am
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Originally Posted by Badenoch View Post
87 percent of respondents would never cruise or won't until there is a vaccine? The odds on the major lines staying afloat literally and figuratively are very slim.
I never back in February-March in my worst moments thought this pandemic would be as bad as it has turned out to be. Fast forward to today and the CDC recently warned of a potential second and more deadly wave well before there are any viable and widely available vaccines. My optimism of early this year is pretty well used up. A second wave that takes us into next year I think would devastate the travel industry and one of the first niches to fall would be the major cruise lines. The outlook is bleak.
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Old Jul 17, 20, 9:04 am
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Originally Posted by Randyk47 View Post
I never back in February-March in my worst moments thought this pandemic would be as bad as it has turned out to be. Fast forward to today and the CDC recently warned of a potential second and more deadly wave well before there are any viable and widely available vaccines. My optimism of early this year is pretty well used up. A second wave that takes us into next year I think would devastate the travel industry and one of the first niches to fall would be the major cruise lines. The outlook is bleak.
I'm not quite that pessimistic. I am however prudent. The greatest travel risk currently would appear to be taking a cruise. I won't take one without a proven vaccine or the virus burns out like SARS did. I will travel again but may never cruise again.
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Old Jul 17, 20, 10:49 am
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The survey data is very interesting, but there is something significant missing: An explanation of the sampling methods and the sample. Unless I missed it, we have no idea who composed the subject pool. For example, if 87% of past cruisers say that they are never cruising again, that is quite different than if the respondent pool consists of a 24-36 year-old demographic who has never ever given a thought to cruising.
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Old Jul 17, 20, 12:01 pm
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Originally Posted by 747FC View Post
The survey data is very interesting, but there is something significant missing: An explanation of the sampling methods and the sample. Unless I missed it, we have no idea who composed the subject pool. For example, if 87% of past cruisers say that they are never cruising again, that is quite different than if the respondent pool consists of a 24-36 year-old demographic who has never ever given a thought to cruising.
I also wonder about the point in time when the survey was taken. Since the survey results mention “Assuming all the stay at home orders are lifted by June 15th.....” makes me think the survey was taken in May or earlier. A lot, most of it not good in the US, has happened since May and I’d guess the same survey today would be even more resistant to travel. I realize some are busting at the seams to get out and about. However; the ones I’ve talked to are more focused on wanting to be able to go a local restaurant or bar, play golf or tennis, use the community pool, etc., versus some distant or exotic destination.
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