Closed-loop cruises?
 

Cruise lines are reported to be considering closed-loop cruises within one nation to get back in business while avoiding travel bans.

In the U.S. it would require suspending the Passenger Vessel Services Act that prohibits foreign-flagged ships from visiting only American ports without a stop at a "distant" foreign port. The similar Jones Act which applies to cargo has been suspended previously in times of emergency. Alternatively, the lines could reflag any of their vessels currently in American ports and ply their services within the U.S.A.

A similar concept is apparently being considered in the U.K. where residents could cruise the home islands without leaving their country. They might also take place in the EU depending on which member nations are open to visitors from within the union.

Should a closed-loop cruise be available that would keep you in your own country would you take one? Would you be more inclined to take one if you could drive to the port instead of having to fly?

Actually, it's not as simple as that. The PVSA requires the ship to be built in the US (or at least a certain part of it) and a certain amount of the crew to be US based, plus complying with US labor laws etc. So it wouldn't just be reflagging, there would need to be some action by the US government to make it possible.

As to closed loop cruises, yes I would do it, just to be on the water in any way I can. I don't know if enough people would though to make it feasible.

IIRC correctly Norwegian was able to do it to service Hawaii. Another option would be to simply pass the PVSA fee on to passengers. Ultimately it would make the most sense to convince the government to suspend the legislation temporarily until regular cruising resumes.

NCL had to get exemptions around the US built ship. It took quite a bit of finagling since there aren't any US based ship builders. Took a hull that was started in the US, then moved it to Germany to be finished, but even then needed exemptions to satisfy the PVSA. I think that's a good idea myself.

We have no interest in closed loop cruises or cruises to “no where”.

A distant foregn report is only required if the origin and destination are different. If the origin and destination are the same city, any foreign port will do. That's how LA, Seattle, and Boston round-trips cruises work - Mexican and Canadian ports are foreign, but not distant.

One problem is that the U.S. govermnent has no interest whatsoever in promoting the cruise industry. They explicitly stated that when they denied any COVID relief to cruise companies.

The other problem is that few people would pay for such a cruise, and it would be a losing proposition for the cruise lines.

The NCL ship, "Pride of America," is able to do closed-loop cruises within the Hawaiian islands. In doing so, they must abide by USA employment laws, which increases the expense and makes supervision of employees more complex.

After opening this thread I said to Mrs747FC, "Hey, you want to go on NCL around Hawaii?" (we live here), and her immediate response was "Do you really think I want to get on a cruise ship?" Case closed. OT, we have been thinking of flying to NZ when flights resume, but that transpac flight will still be a barrier we need to cross.

There was a market for 3-4 day cruises to nowhere with alcohol packages. It doesn't fit the image or demographic of all mass market lines (some have worked for years to shed some of the spring break booze cruise reputations). Repositioning cruises also go for long stretches at sea and some don't have many stops. Both tended to have lower prices, though different atmosphere.

I don't have any interest in a booze cruise and never did. I'm with Mrs747FC and also live in a state which has beaches if I want to get some time near the ocean.

Yeah, no, both to making exceptions to the law and to me taking any cruise any time in the near future. Assuming this is before a vaccine or other elimination of COVID-19, I'd suggest everyone who disembarks such a cruise be quarantined in isolated tents at the port (at their expense) for 14 days before being allowed to proceed home.

The cruise lines messed up really badly (forcing people to board or no refund for a full month and a half after the Diamond Princess, then crying about cities not wanting to take in ships with mass spread). There are many many other businesses and activities that can and should be reopened well before cruising is allowed.

My view as well. I have no issue with travel but being packed in on a boat with thousands of other people is a non-starter until there's a proven vaccine.

It's not just being packed on a ship with thousands of other people, but the fact that at this time, if someone comes down with Covid, there is no international agreement on how to deal with the ill passenger and the remainder of the ships complement in regards to docking and transfer of the patient to the hospital.
Until that is figured out, I am not getting on a cruise ship either.

The cruise lines have ships displaced all over the world, especially since the 2 largest cruise line been using their ships to get cruise staff and crew back home. There are ships in places where they don’t typically go. For example, Royal Caribbean’s Anthem of the Seas is either on its way to or already in India. That ship normally sail up and down the east coast between New Jersey and the Bahamas, Caribbean, Bermuda, and Canada. So in order for them to start up the cruises, they would need to first get all the ship, crew, and staff back in position. I highly doubt they are going to do that for a simply “cruise to no where” because those cruises are typically used to either introduce a new market to cruising or to fill a gap in the schedule so that ship is carrying passengers every single day its in operation.

There are several cruise ships currently moored in American ports that could if relieved of the Passenger Vessel Service Act be pressed into service for U.S.-only cruises exclusively for passengers who are already in the U.S.A. And with nothing else sailing a "cruise to nowhere" would definitely fill a gap and generate some revenue for the lines.

The question is if they were available would you take one?

The absence of an international agreement on how to deal with an ill passenger shouldn't be an issue when the ship is sailing within the borders of a specific nation and carrying only passengers who are citizens or permanent residents in that nation.

They would have to get all staff and crew back onto the ships... if they do all that... the answer will be yes as long as it’s not Norwegian Cruise Lines. It’s a great opportunities to earn more points on Royal Caribbean towards more free cruises and also to try out other cruise lines.

Ships could be staffed by American crews. Hiring domestically would most likely be a condition in return for relief from the PVSA.

The higher labor cost will more than likely translate to a significant higher cruise fare... if that happens, the appeal of closed loop cruise as describe would be less desirable. There are smaller river cruises that operates all around the US that may be a better option at that point. There are only so many people that are willing to pay a premium and I don’t think it’s enough to fill a typical cruise ship that transport over thousands of passengers.

The one cruise ship that was operating within American waters is the Pride of America. It had no problem operating at full capacity.

Pride of America operates in a niche market of Hawaii sailings. They can charge a premium for Hawaii cruises. However, it won’t really work right now with Hawaii’s COVID-19 quarantine requirements for incoming travelers. It’s successful as it was the only ship able to cruise Hawaii without visiting a foreign port but apparently the numbers weren’t good enough for them to continue operating Pride of Hawaii and that ship was transfer to regular NCL operations and renamed Norwegian Jade. If it was truly successful, other cruise lines would of followed NCL’s lead.

But the fact that Norwegian decided to transfer Pride of Hawaii, a newer ship that carry more passengers, to regular NCL operations seems to tell me that there are only so much demand for cruises when priced over $200 per person per night during the regular off season.

Pride of Hawaii was not an American-built ship. At the time it was cruising around Hawaii, I believe there were three NCL ships doing the same. There was an over-capacity problem, so NCL ditched the other two ships that needed to add Fanning Island to the itinerary.

As an aside, we cruised on the Norwegian Jade around Norway, shortly after it repositioned there. It was a delight to be surrounded by the Hawaii-themed interior while in Nordic waters.

Hiring US crew would be great and I’m not against it.. I just don’t think there is enough of a demand for passengers to pay a premium to go on a cruise around various regions in the US. If there was a demand, “cruise to no where” and “coastal” cruises wouldn’t be so cheap every time its offered. In addition, there would be more US built cruise ships if the demand was there.

There are niche markets like Hawaii and Alaska that can justify the premiums and people will pay... Also small river cruises have a market. The problem is in the US we are limited in places cruise ships can go that can attract enough of a premium to cover the cost of labor. That leads into the question of are vacationers willing to pay a higher cruise fare to cover the cost?

Most loyal of cruisers would, like how frequent flyers will pay more and even go out of their way to fly on their preferred airline. Same goes for cruise lines... the loyal and most frequent cruisers will more than likely to continue to cruise regardless of destination and routing. The question is will there be an enough of a demand for regular and first time cruisers to pay the premium to go on cruises to places they can drive to or fly to easily.

All of this was accurate in 2019 when the "niche markets" were competing against other cruises. Would they still apply in 2020 when nothing else is cruising? To make it work financially would require higher fares but as other travel options are quite limited the question is whether there would be sufficient numbers of cruising diehards who would take a closed-loop cruise in their own countries.

It would not necessarily be the U.S. either. There could be a UK-only cruise for UK residents, an EU cruise for residents of member nations, etc.

I am not following this thread. I used to do one and two day cruises to nowhere out of Manhattan all the time in the early 2000's and it was not a violation of Passenger Vessel Services Act. I did a few bachelor parties back then, four to a cabin we never visited other to get out of a bathing suits when the pool closed.
Wasn't CTN's banned due to some employee tax issue for gambling day cruises and daily Bahama cruises out of Florida, claiming the employers did not have to by income tax even though employees on the were in the US every day .
All the mass market cruise lines did CDN's to get back on their rotation schedule when coming to NY for a season.

There is definitely a demand outside the US where you can probably put something together for a cruise to stay within one country. Alaska is pretty much dead for this year as the season ends in early September. As for Hawaii, there may be some demand in the winter if Hawaii decides to open the state up to travel without quarantine... People may go to Hawaii to cruise if that’s their only option, the question is more if the US relaxes the rules and allow other cruise lines to operate within the US provided they staff the ship with US crew... I personally don’t think theres enough people willing to pay the premium for something that used to be pretty much a bargain.

Cruise To Nowhere technically didn’t visit any other ports. The PVSA / Jones Act prohibits non US Flagged cruise ships and ocean liners from visiting multiple US ports without first visiting a foreign port. It also prohibits non US flagged cruise ships and ocean liners from transporting passengers between one US port and another US port without first visiting a “distant” foreign port. So this leaves two possibility of cruises... the more common one that leaves and return to the same port. And than the Panama Canal cruises that always stop in either South America or Panama. This is also why Hawaii cruises tend to have random ports like Ensenada or Vancouver or some random out of the way island in the Pacific. Also why Victoria, BC is on almost every sailing to Alaska from Seattle. Cruise to Nowhere satisfied all the requirement because they are technically not transporting anyone between 2 US port... they’re just going out and back.