Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Travel&Dining > Cruises
Reload this Page >

Yes another loss of space on Holland America

Yes another loss of space on Holland America

Old Jan 30, 19, 12:43 am
  #1  
Original Member
Original Poster
 
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Escondido CA USA
Programs: AS, UA, HY, Hil, Merr
Posts: 3,100
Yes another loss of space on Holland America

Just a note to pass along our thoughts on HAL.

We are 4 star with HAL. Going to HA (revisit) and SoPac (revisit) on the Eurodam (for the first time). Now I find out that the already too crowded space on the Lido, has rental cabanas. This sets aside general passenger space to sit and eat lunch "outside", to rental space cabanas! This has been happening on this ship for years? I am surprised that such a major difference exist in the product without more awareness by us. We have been on a number of their ships, none of those had cabanas. The Crows Nest just was cutdown or eliminated too (article). As was the library (same article). This ship is larger, yet the public space seems to be eroding. I will know better soon. Anyone sailed on the Eurodam?

We were ready to give up on HAL after the last two cruises, where we had lots of issues with out cabin. Anyone can have issues during their cruise, it is how the line handles it that counts. I am a letter writer and was not even close to satisfied with their responses. We decide to give them one more chance, with the few tokens they did allow us. For sure we will be mixing our cruises with some others to find a potential new home. We enjoyed our NCL cruises, but they were a long time ago. My wife really likes Regent 7 Seas (I had a cough 1/2 the cruise, so did not get much of the prepaid values, hunkered down in the cabin). Royal Carib. was ok-good for the two trips. As further disclosure, we have done all the routes that HAL offers AND we wanted. The only one to elude us is the one along the West Africa coast to Asia, and that one is now, overlapping with Mom's 100th birthday, so it was out. Not scheduled to be repeated. R7SEAS has similar late 2020...we will likely do that.
ranles is offline  
Old Jan 30, 19, 7:05 am
  #2  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: San Antonio, TX
Programs: AA EXP, DL Silver, Global Entry
Posts: 1,679
We too are 4-star HAL Mariners having started with them back in 1994. We too have had enough in terms of the cuts and changes. Case in point is your mention of what we consider the gradual demise of the Crow’s Nest as our favorite evening venue. Back in 1994 HAL had a 4 or 5 piece staff band that would start playing around 7 PM. We’d go there before dinner and enjoy a drink and the hors d’ouevers the bar staff would wheel around on a cart. After dinner we’d eventually go back to the Crow’s Nest and finish the night off dancing and enjoying the band until close to closing. By 1998 the staff band was gone but they had replaced them with a contract band so no big change there. The hors d’ouevers were still available but no cart and you had to ask for them. By 2004 the band was gone and they had a piano playing before dinner and maybe a single piano or guitar player after dinner. By 2007 no piano player before dinner but still maybe a DJ playing prerecorded music after dinner. By 2011 the Crow’s Nest was no big deal with virtually no entertainment and virtually empty at night. My time frames might be off a year here or there and it may have differed from ship to ship or cruise to cruise but that was the general demise of the Crow’s Nest to what had been a once very popular nightclub-like venue. HAL’s conclusion was the Crow’s Nest wasn’t pulling its weight as a money making venue so they have or are slowly but surely turning it into the Internet center, business center, and cruise research area. I can’t speak to how well that has been accepted or how it well it works but it doesn’t interest us.

Truth is is we gave up on HAL in 2012 and haven’t been back and have no plans to try then again. There’s a lot more to our decision than the changes in the Crow’s Nest, more than I want to lay out here. HAL is still pretty popular and I guess they still offer a fairly quality experience for the fare. They certainly have a very good variety and selection of itineraries and that attracts a lot of passengers. By no means am I saying it’s a bad product just that it isn’t a product that attracts us or now meets our needs and expectations.




Last edited by Randyk47; Jan 30, 19 at 8:16 am
Randyk47 is offline  
Old Jan 30, 19, 7:55 am
  #3  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: JFK LGA PBI BOI
Posts: 554
HAL's another Carnival PLC?
More of the same, making adjustments to increase the post fare take.
Brighton Line is offline  
Old Jan 30, 19, 9:59 am
  #4  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Programs: Delta Gold (2020)
Posts: 2,028
Originally Posted by Brighton Line View Post
HAL's another Carnival PLC?
More of the same, making adjustments to increase the post fare take.
I don't think you can blame this entirely on Carnival. They all do it. How you feel about it often depends on when you started cruising and what your expectations are. Personally, I haven't sailed HAL since 2008 :-(
Hoyaheel is online now  
Old Jan 30, 19, 10:49 am
  #5  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: San Antonio, TX
Programs: AA EXP, DL Silver, Global Entry
Posts: 1,679
Originally Posted by Hoyaheel View Post
I don't think you can blame this entirely on Carnival. They all do it. How you feel about it often depends on when you started cruising and what your expectations are. Personally, I haven't sailed HAL since 2008 :-(
Interesting you havenít sailed with HAL since 2008. Thatís about the same time we started to really notice changes that impacted us. Admittedly, a few years break in between, we tried HAL a couple of more times and finally gave HAL up in 2011 to the point where we dropped a 2012 booking with them.
Randyk47 is offline  
Old Jan 30, 19, 11:04 am
  #6  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Programs: Delta Gold (2020)
Posts: 2,028
It was ship size! In 2008 we did Panama Canal on Westerdam and that ship was just too big for us. The smaller HAL ships weren't being maintained as well (or were having weird retrofits!) and at the same time, Princess still had a couple R class ships that were priced affordably and doing itineraries we were interested in (HAL still had Prinsendam but it's usually quite expensive due to demand). We were fairly new to cruising as a couple (our first cruise together was 2006) and decided that we would prefer other travel options until/unless we could afford the cruising options that appealed to us. And we maintain that - we've only done 4 cruises since then, and some people do that in a month or two ;-) But they've been interesting itineraries on smaller ships and that makes us happy.....
Hoyaheel is online now  
Old Jan 30, 19, 12:07 pm
  #7  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: San Antonio, TX
Programs: AA EXP, DL Silver, Global Entry
Posts: 1,679
For sure ship size was one of the factors that caused us to go away from HAL. We cruised on the then pretty new Oosterdam in 2004. Didn’t like the size so our next few cruises were on the smaller Voolendam, Veendam, and Maasdam. Like many of the mass market lines HAL continued, and actually continues, to build bigger and bigger ships and is unloading the now old smaller ships. Another brick in the wall for any chance if us returning to HAL.
Randyk47 is offline  
Old Jan 30, 19, 3:31 pm
  #8  
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Programs: Hilton Diamond, IHG Spire Ambassador, Global Entry
Posts: 539
Companies will always change their product. When they don't, they become Sears. There is likely three major customer responses to cabanas being added:

1.) I don't care (probably the most common response)
2.) I'm mad. Now you're going to hear about it. Generally, this isn't the only complaint of the complainers either
3.) People glad that they can purchase the option. They purchase it

What would you do if market research told you this would benefit you?
Super Mario is offline  
Old Jan 30, 19, 5:01 pm
  #9  
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Represa CA
Programs: Hilton LT diamond, Hyatt diamond, Marriott LTte, AA LT plat, Seabourn diamond elite
Posts: 2,543
I believe cabanas for rent to be mostly antagonistic to paying passengers. It is lost public space to serve a few. Seabourn does this on their two newer ships and they are seldom occupied. HAL operates Seabourn.

A general question directed to passengers that have been loyal to a certain line. How many times do you need to be hit over the head to get the message your favorite cruise line has chosen a path you should not support? I probably stayed with one line three years too long.

Last edited by hedoman; Jan 30, 19 at 7:45 pm
hedoman is offline  
Old Jan 30, 19, 10:07 pm
  #10  
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,668
Originally Posted by hedoman View Post
A general question directed to passengers that have been loyal to a certain line. How many times do you need to be hit over the head to get the message your favorite cruise line has chosen a path you should not support? I probably stayed with one line three years too long.
It is more the base fare prices being a bit high for me on 2019 for sailings this year on Celebrity. I've been rolling with a lot of the changes because I like sailing on newer ships and if business justifies it, new ships will come out. Edge Class ships are priced higher than I desire for the next two years and Solstice class deals only seem like deals priced next to Edge class. We're on a bit of a pause right now My travel loyalty lies with my wallet.

Cruise loyalty doesn't require yearly re-qualification so I get to keep some of the perks going forward. I do expect status perk devaluation like the hotels have but the next level up isn't worth the spend.
YVR Cockroach likes this.
freecia is offline  
Old Jan 30, 19, 10:21 pm
  #11  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Programs: statusless these days
Posts: 19,667
IIRC, the cabanas taking up buffet dining space is only on the Eurodam (I heard about this from fellow pax on another HAL ship back in 2014).

Originally Posted by hedoman View Post
HAL operates Seabourn.
Not exactly. Both are owned by Carnival Corp. but Seabourn does not fall under the umbrellas of HAL. I am sure the managers at every line are being whipped by the Arisons to drive up profits though.
Hoyaheel likes this.
YVR Cockroach is offline  
Old Jan 31, 19, 6:11 am
  #12  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: San Antonio, TX
Programs: AA EXP, DL Silver, Global Entry
Posts: 1,679
Originally Posted by hedoman View Post
A general question directed to passengers that have been loyal to a certain line. How many times do you need to be hit over the head to get the message your favorite cruise line has chosen a path you should not support? I probably stayed with one line three years too long.
My wife and I are probably guilty of staying with a line too long, like probably three to four years too long. A lot of things went into the decision that seemed valid at the time but not so much in retrospect. At the time we finally had reached the number of cruise days where the passenger loyalty program started to really show some benefit. Our cruise focus at the time had been escaping winters in the frozen north so we cruised almost exclusively in the Caribbean. We were a bit younger and our interests were different. We thought our real escape would mean looking at luxury lines and at the time those lines didnít compete well cost wise for Caribbean cruises. It was only when we started considering more distant cruises like the Med that the possibility to upgrade to luxury lines really started to make sense. Made the leap in 2012 and will probably never go back to our mass market line.
freecia likes this.
Randyk47 is offline  
Old Jan 31, 19, 10:05 am
  #13  
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Represa CA
Programs: Hilton LT diamond, Hyatt diamond, Marriott LTte, AA LT plat, Seabourn diamond elite
Posts: 2,543
Originally Posted by YVR Cockroach View Post
Not exactly. Both are owned by Carnival Corp. but Seabourn does not fall under the umbrellas of HAL. I am sure the managers at every line are being whipped by the Arisons to drive up profits though.
HAL operates Seabourn. Yes, Seabourn has its titled execs, but they serve HAL. You might want to bring yourself up to date regarding Carnival Corp.
Randy, always enjoy reading your posts.
hedoman is offline  
Old Jan 31, 19, 1:30 pm
  #14  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: San Antonio, TX
Programs: AA EXP, DL Silver, Global Entry
Posts: 1,679
Originally Posted by hedoman View Post
HAL operates Seabourn. Yes, Seabourn has its titled execs, but they serve HAL. You might want to bring yourself up to date regarding Carnival Corp.
Randy, always enjoy reading your posts.
Kind of hard to fully understand the exact relationship....what I would call the chain of command using my military background....between Holland America and Seabourn. From what I can tell Carnival Corporation has a subgroup called the Holland America Group that includes the Holland America, Princess, Seabourn, and P&O Australia lines. There is a group CEO and each line has its own president that reports to him. Supposedly these were all pulled together to cut management overhead and consolidated in Seattle to share common staff operations. Might be splitting hairs but the use of Holland America as the group name and as one of the cruise lines probably causes some misunderstanding.
YVR Cockroach likes this.
Randyk47 is offline  
Old Feb 27, 19, 5:35 pm
  #15  
Original Member
Original Poster
 
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Escondido CA USA
Programs: AS, UA, HY, Hil, Merr
Posts: 3,100
moved elsewhere

Last edited by ranles; Mar 3, 19 at 1:05 pm Reason: needs to be a separate post
ranles is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search Engine: