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Stop the cruise I want to get off

Stop the cruise I want to get off

Old Feb 3, 2018, 10:27 pm
  #16  
 
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Originally Posted by Badenoch
I would definitely let the cruise line know to prevent them waiting for my return. I wouldn't tell them however until we'd sailed and probably not sooner than the day before we arrived in Halifax. It's quite unlikely they would forcibly keep me on the vessel.

I would assume there is a CBSA facility at Halifax or at least an office I could contact. I'm not looking to circumvent immigration and customs. If "not available" is that really my problem? Canadian passenger gets off cruise boat and goes home. Is it possible to be an illegal immigrant in your own country? It's an intriguing question.
It is an Interesting question.... do you suppose a Canadian with access to an appropriate private aircraft is allowed to fly in to ANY airport/airfield in Canada capable of taking the aircraft and say the same thing about the lack of immigration and Customs facilities? "Not my problem" Is that any different?

There is a CBSA office in Halifax (they seem mainly concerned with cargo containers of course) ..why not call them?

Edit: FWIW There is a VERY interesting system in place - including in Halifax - for private vessels entering Canadian waters.... But zero mention of cruise ships...
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Last edited by trooper; Feb 3, 2018 at 10:33 pm
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Old Feb 4, 2018, 1:04 am
  #17  
 
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Originally Posted by Badenoch
<snip> It's quite unlikely they would forcibly keep me on the vessel.

I would assume there is a CBSA facility at Halifax or at least an office I could contact. I'm not looking to circumvent immigration and customs. If "not available" is that really my problem? Canadian passenger gets off cruise boat and goes home. Is it possible to be an illegal immigrant in your own country? It's an intriguing question.
It's not that simple.

Canadian law does guarantee the right of Canadian citizens to enter Canada -- but only "in accordance with this Act" and after examination of citizenship. (Immigration and Refugee Protection Act [IRP Act] section 19(1)).

The IRP Act also states that, with highly limited exceptions, "every person seeking to enter Canada must appear for an examination" as to their right to enter. (IRP Act section 18(1)).

The Customs Act likewise states that, with highly limited exceptions, "every person arriving in Canada shall ... enter Canada only at a customs office designated for that purpose that is open for business and without delay present himself or herself to an officer and answer truthfully any questions" (Customs Act section 11(1)). The law places the onus on the person seeking to enter to find an open customs office -- not on the customs office to remain open.

For a person arriving on a cruise ship, these mandates are reinforced by the power the law gives to the cruise operator. The Customs Act instructs them that, with highly limited exceptions, "every person in charge of a conveyance arriving in Canada shall ... ensure that the passengers and crew are forthwith on arrival in Canada transported to a customs office referred to in subsection (1)." (Customs Act section 11(3)).

While the CBSA Halifax Marine office hours are officially 8 am to 12 midnight daily, the office may be unstaffed and closed when they are not on notice that a cruise ship will be fully disembarking one or more passengers.

cc: @JumboJet, @Randyk47, @trooper

Last edited by Newbie2FT; Feb 4, 2018 at 1:23 am
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Old Feb 4, 2018, 5:50 am
  #18  
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Originally Posted by trooper
It is an Interesting question.... do you suppose a Canadian with access to an appropriate private aircraft is allowed to fly in to ANY airport/airfield in Canada capable of taking the aircraft and say the same thing about the lack of immigration and Customs facilities? "Not my problem" Is that any different?
I have come into Canada on GA aircraft at an airport without a CBSA facility many times. You are required to contact phone the Telephone Reporting Center who can clear you over the phone or send officers to the airport for clearance.

https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/prog/can...alavi-eng.html

There is also a similar procedure for boaters.

https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/travel-v...pp-eng.html#a3

Originally Posted by Newbie2FT
For a person arriving on a cruise ship, these mandates are reinforced by the power the law gives to the cruise operator. The Customs Act instructs them that, with highly limited exceptions, "every person in charge of a conveyance arriving in Canada shall ... ensure that the passengers and crew are forthwith on arrival in Canada transported to a customs office referred to in subsection (1)." (Customs Act section 11(3)).

While the CBSA Halifax Marine office hours are officially 8 am to 12 midnight daily, the office may be unstaffed and closed when they are not on notice that a cruise ship will be fully disembarking one or more passengers.
Thanks. Very helpful. I note that Halifax is an authorized disembarkation site for cruise ships.

https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/do-rb/se...o-onc-eng.html

Certainly, I do not wish to circumvent the law and would contact cruise ship operations and make arrangements with the CBSA to be cleared similar to landing in a private boat or aircraft.

Another interesting aspect is whether cruise passengers who are day visitors to their own country undergo different scrutiny that those from other countries. I've never landed in Canada as a cruise passenger but know from previous experience the customs and immigration procedures in foreign ports for cruise passengers vary widely are often cursory at best.
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Old Feb 4, 2018, 9:00 am
  #19  
 
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Originally Posted by Badenoch
I know from previous experience the customs and immigration procedures in foreign ports for cruise passengers vary widely are often cursory at best.
Sure, sometimes they're cursory, but the inverse - where everyone is on the ship an extra 2-3 hours while immigration works through all the paperwork - can be true as well..... (yep, I too have experienced both ends of the spectrum...)

I don't think Canada could keep out a citizen. But that doesn't mean it has to be an easy or quick process, either. I think that's all the cautious people are saying here - check ahead of time, give the company plenty of time to help you....Often central offices are far better equipped to answer these kinds of questions than the offices on the ship, and depending on where you are, communications between the two might be limited....
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Old Feb 4, 2018, 9:45 am
  #20  
 
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To OP:

WHY did you ask us about this?

You are disregarding all that we are suggesting, and keep stating variations of "I'm an Canadian citizen, they can't keep me out, I'm just going to get off and stay!"

Okay, that's one strategy, one that might lead to considerable bureaucratic difficulties and time... or perhaps not.

But if it's the "not" scenario, then what was the "harm" in having the cruise line contact Custome/Immigrations in advance on your behalf, as they WOULD do for others anywhere?

And if it IS going to cost aggravation and time? Well, that's not going to be avoided by trying to do it the "brute force" method and just marching in unannounced...

One way or another, they'll know that you arrived in Canada, and -->> did not leave with the ship. The ship will be required to notify them if you just fail to show up and they sail off without you.

NO one (on the ship, at the cruise line, or at Customs/Immigrations) will be "pleased' by the way you handled it.

You could STILL do "what you are planning" IF you ask through proper channels and the request is refused.
But if it is all arranged FOR YOU, then... NO PROBLEM

Yes, we know others who have asked (not for Canada), and ALL have been arranged.
Some of them got off in one intermediate port and stayed a few days, and then caught up with their ship and got back on, but all was arranged in advance, with the cruise line, the ship's officers AND with officials on the ground.

If you don't want our suggestions and are going to automatically discount *everything* that everyone responds, then again...why did you ask?

I hope it goes well the way you are planning, but there IS a way to be pretty sure it will go smoothly.
The ship isn't a prison, and you *are* a Canadian citizen.
And there apparently aren't any laws to be violated (as with the "two separate USA ports" problem south of your border).

Good luck.

GC
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Old Feb 4, 2018, 12:15 pm
  #21  
 
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Originally Posted by Badenoch
I have come into Canada on GA aircraft at an airport without a CBSA facility many times. You are required to contact phone the Telephone Reporting Center who can clear you over the phone or send officers to the airport for clearance.

https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/prog/can...alavi-eng.html

There is also a similar procedure for boaters.

https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/travel-v...pp-eng.html#a3

<snip>
You're welcome. And just to clarify for other readers, the situation being described about general aviation (non-commercial) passengers is one of those 'highly limited exceptions' mentioned above. The Parliament and Canada Revenue Agency/CBSA carved out an exception just for this type of situation. The same goes for boaters.

These exceptions prove the general rule that everyone entering Canada must present themselves to an open customs office for in-person examination.

Sources:

Customs Act section 11(1): "Subject to this section, every person arriving in Canada shall, except in such circumstances and subject to such conditions as may be prescribed, enter Canada only ..."

Customs Act section 11.1 (1): "Subject to the regulations, the Minister may issue to any person an authorization to present himself or herself in an alternative manner."


Presentation of Persons (2003) Regulations section (2)(2):

Part 1
Exceptions to Presentation under Subsection 11(1) of the Act

...

2
...(2) The following persons, in the following circumstances and conditions, are not required to present themselves in accordance with subsection 11(1) of the Act:

...(c) persons arriving in Canada aboard a non-commercial passenger conveyance at a designated customs office where the person in charge of the conveyance may present themself and their passengers by radio or telephone, and the person informs an officer by radio or telephone of their arrival and, if required to do so by the officer, presents themself and their passengers at the time and place specified by the officer;

...

Alternative Manners of Presentation

11 Persons may present themselves in one of the following alternative manners if they have been authorized to do so:

...
(e) on arrival in Canada aboard a marine pleasure craft, by means of the person in charge of the marine pleasure craft if that person presents themself and those persons aboard by telephone to an officer at a designated customs office and all persons aboard the marine pleasure craft are authorized to present themselves in that manner.

Last edited by Newbie2FT; Feb 4, 2018 at 12:30 pm
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Old Feb 4, 2018, 1:01 pm
  #22  
 
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I'd guess if one gets off and doesn't get back on, and no prior arrangements have been made, then their name will be one of those heard over the loudspeakers just before port departure time - "Will xyz, abc, qrx, etc please report to ____ immediately". Sometimes there are quite a few names on the list to start. Then as it is repeated the list usually gets shorter.
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Old Feb 4, 2018, 2:47 pm
  #23  
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This is not about Canadian law, but about the logistics. I suppose that if OP is traveling with a day pack which he can sling over his shoulder and simply not return to the ship, it does not matter what the cruise line things, says or does. But, if he has luggage which needs to be physically delivered to the disembarkation point and delivered to Customs for pickup at Halifax, that needs to be arranged in advance if it is available. If it is not available, OP has the option of simply walking away from the ship and not returning and figuring out how to reclaim his luggage at some point in the future.

As a Canadian citizen he may present himself without even a passport and he will eventually be admitted. The question is not whether he will spend his life on some pier in limbo, but how simple and pleasant all of this is.

Hence, my advice to simply call the cruise line. If it is not available, it is not as though the Captain will have OP held in the brig at Halifax. People call all day and every day with questions.
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Old Feb 4, 2018, 9:28 pm
  #24  
 
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From experience.....
The cruise line should be contacted. Then once clearance is awarded and you are onoard, the Purser's office should be consulted for disembarking instructions. There is a system in place to clear disembarking passengers.
Do note that you will be instructed to notify your cabin steward. You will pay all gratuities for the entire cruise. You must handle all of your luggage from cabin to pier. Your boarding pass will be turned over to security and you cannot reboard even to grab all of your luggage.
And, finally, we have missed docking twice in Halifax due to fog and high seas. The sealane into the harbour is narrow. Just so you know that any docking is not guaranteed.
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Old Feb 5, 2018, 9:23 am
  #25  
 
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Is a ticket from YHZ to your home airport that much cheaper than one from New York? If Halifax was skipped for some reason, it would certainly not be cheaper!
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Old Feb 5, 2018, 12:33 pm
  #26  
 
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Originally Posted by Often1
This is not about Canadian law, but about the logistics. I suppose that if OP is traveling with a day pack which he can sling over his shoulder and simply not return to the ship, it does not matter what the cruise line things, says or does. But, if he has luggage which needs to be physically delivered to the disembarkation point and delivered to Customs for pickup at Halifax, that needs to be arranged in advance if it is available. If it is not available, OP has the option of simply walking away from the ship and not returning and figuring out how to reclaim his luggage at some point in the future.

As a Canadian citizen he may present himself without even a passport and he will eventually be admitted. The question is not whether he will spend his life on some pier in limbo, but how simple and pleasant all of this is.

Hence, my advice to simply call the cruise line. If it is not available, it is not as though the Captain will have OP held in the brig at Halifax. People call all day and every day with questions.

I think this is about both logistics and Canadian law.

OP stated that he can't be "forced against my will to return to the ship", when Canadian law gives the transporter the duty and right to ensure that a passenger only leave the ship by entering a customs office open for business, ready for passenger examination.

I've seen cruise ship security manhandle abrasive passengers who weren't even breaking laws. I could easily envision them temporarily detaining (on-board, below the gangway, or in the office) a passenger who attempts to waltz off with his luggage, until the ship operations staff are able to contact the CBSA office and get it properly staffed for an examination.

Then OP invoked the boater and GA telephone reporting model of entry into Canada for when the customs office is closed -- a model that he was entitled to use when he gets off his cruise ship ("Certainly, I ... would contact cruise ship operations and make arrangements with the CBSA to be cleared similar to landing in a private boat or aircraft.")

But Canadian law instructs us that he cannot report by telephone.

Maybe in another 15 or 20 years all customs offices with lighter staffing, including their cruise/marine offices, will offer a 24-hour video conferencing and remote baggage x-ray lane as a backup option, so that the regs will allow anybody to use remote presentation when entering. But before then, the law has different ideas.

As we all agree, in the meantime, OP will need to provide notice well in advance to the cruise line, so that they can advise their CBSA liaison to keep that office open for full examination of at least two passengers upon docking.

Last edited by Newbie2FT; Feb 5, 2018 at 12:52 pm
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Old Feb 5, 2018, 12:42 pm
  #27  
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Yes you usually can depart the ship at an earlier port on a transatlantic cruise, BUT it must be arranged in advance with the cruise line prior to sailing. Most, if not all, have procedures in place for setting this up. There are times where this isn't possible (the most common example would be if it would turn a round trip cruise from the US into a one way cruise between two US ports) but that isn't an issue for your particular itinerary.

You also must have a plan in place about what you will do if the ship has to skip Halifax. On my first transatlantic cruise, we had to skip a stop in Canada due to a massive arctic storm. We actually ended up getting more time in a different Canadian port, but if anyone had planned to disembark at that first Canadian port they would've been quite unhappy.
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Old Feb 5, 2018, 6:05 pm
  #28  
 
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Please let us know OP what happens . Interesting issue . Good luck.
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Old Feb 6, 2018, 9:33 am
  #29  
 
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Originally Posted by Badenoch
I would definitely let the cruise line know to prevent them waiting for my return. I wouldn't tell them however until we'd sailed and probably not sooner than the day before we arrived in Halifax. It's quite unlikely they would forcibly keep me on the vessel.

I would assume there is a CBSA facility at Halifax or at least an office I could contact. I'm not looking to circumvent immigration and customs. If "not available" is that really my problem? Canadian passenger gets off cruise boat and goes home. Is it possible to be an illegal immigrant in your own country? It's an intriguing question.
Hmm. I think you increase your risk level if you play games and not let them know in advance. If I had made non-refundable air/car reservations, and would want to travel with the cruise line in the future, I would let them know my plans before committing to the cruise.
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Old Feb 7, 2018, 4:56 am
  #30  
 
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Originally Posted by xooz
Too often I see this as an immediate response, indicating that posters should have already posed their scenario to the travel vendor before bothering the FT community. I believe that it is reasonable to post a question to get some feedback from the community before calling. It allows you to have some basis to assess the response you get from the travel company. If for example others have been successful and you call and are told no way, you already know it is reasonable to hang up and call again. There are other insights that can be helpful to have before contacting the supplier,

Discouraging people in their attempts to get travel insights on Flyertalk seems to be against the mission and spirit. I know there are plenty of annoying " Research my trip for me" posts, but one can just scroll on by.
I agree completely. In this particular case, I would suspect that someone (perhaps none of us, but someone) would actually know what department to ask for to pose that question. It may not be something that the 1-800 number agent would necessarily know about. From what I've read on other forums, that's the case for some cruise lines. Unfortunately, I don't recall the specifics myself. If no one here does, I would suggest visiting some other cruise-related forums and posing your question, since I'm pretty sure there are some passenger insights that would be quite valuable to obtain.
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