I'm not here to defend Crystal. There are a lot of things I don't like about it. However, you cannot compare a premium cruise line with a luxury one. It is simply a completely different experience. Food and service are on a much higher level and the whole ambience reflects a more polished experience. By the previous logic you can stay in a Hilton in any city and have the same sights available as when you stay in a Four Seasons. It's not the same!

Sure you can compare these two lines because most of the time you spend sleeping on the ship so there is no difference there between the two except costs. Nor is their any difference between the itineraries since they both go to basically the same places and share the same port excursion possibililities.

And when someone has travelled on both types of cruise lines, one very much can compare what you get for the costs --- what you call "extras" or premium services. ZERO difference between the two lines besides costs. And that HAL ships service is probably more consistently and genuinely friendly.

Which gets us down to comparing food which was the point of the entire comparison. Is Crystal food worth $300 a meal more? Not by a long shot.

Yes, you do get more high-end finishings in decor with Crystal. But a $1000 a day better when most of the time you are off the ship or sleeping? Oh well, if you live in a shabby environment, then high end finishings for a few hours a day might be worth paying Crystal that $1000 a day extra.

But coolers minds would say spend that $4000 extra for a new carpet and sofa for your own house or a bathroom remodel. Bonus is you get to keep it a lot longer at home for yourself, than you will enjoy a few hours a day enjoying Crystal's higher end finishings.

Crystal marketing creates snob appeal. And if you want that for your $4000 extra, then look deeply into your heart and wonder if a $4000 donation to a prestigious charity might garner you snob appeal to. Or send a kid to college for a year. Or something else that would reflect glory back on to yourself for $4000.

And there you have it. You pay more for Crystal but get nothing more in return. Such a deal, as they say.

I've never cruised with Crystal, so am only speaking from a position of hypotheticals. And your analogy is certainly appropriate--I often think of cruise line positioning in terms of hotel chain positioning, as I have a LOT more experience in hotels than on cruise ships.

Where that argument breaks down is that there are some so-called "luxury" hotels that offer nothing truly luxurious except the aura. I put the entire W concept in that category--all flash, no substance, yet they've created a buzz through clever marketing that makes people think they're cool if they spend hundreds of dollars a night for tiny rooms and surly service. Some people here (sbagal among them) have made the case that Crystal does the same. It has convinced a segment of the population that they offer the best experience at sea, while that may simply be untrue.

I have stayed at Ritz-Carltons that were nice but unremarkable, and in "base" Marriotts that were phenomenal. In general the brands are positioned a certain way, but even so there are times when they don't quite fit the stereotype. I have found HAL to offer a very premium experience for a fair price. I honestly don't see how any cruise line could offer friendlier, more attentive service (which is the most important aspect of "luxury" to me). Their cabins are large and well-appointed. Their food, while not Michelin-star quality, is in line with nice, upscale land-based restaurants (which is really what I want anyway--who could live on rich French food for weeks at a time?).

But I don't necessarily look down on Crystal cheerleaders, either. They've found a product that works for them, so good for them! Maybe if I'd had the personally disappointing experience sbagal did then I'd be more vocal, or if I had a circle of friends who looked down their noses at me for preferring a "premium" line over their "luxury" one. Luckily my friends are less materialistic and shallow than that.

+1

Crystal cabins are quite small. Check out the comparable square footage with similar size HAL ships. You get a long sofa in HAL rooms besides the bed. In Crystal rooms you get one big chair and a stool. This has long been an acknowledged deficiency.

Crystal service ranges between cloying and intrusive to surly and indifferent. Particularly the Eastern European men Crystal hires who often have a chip on their shoulders and a sneering attitude towards the passengers. They more likely have had abetter education in their own countries (with fewer job opportunities), than the passengers they are now required to serve.

HAL service which is primarily Indonesian and Filipino is consistently smiling and professional. HAL ships have 100% been a delight for service and consitency. Crystal was less fortunate and inconsistent.

Don't forget you are paying that $300 a meal for what you find is good chain restaurant food on Crystal. Nope, it is not that great at all for the money.

I am just a practical sort so it is fun to sort out what you actually are paying for with Crystal that is truly "over and above" when you count the actual hours you spend experiencing whatever the heck the Crystal difference is.

You don't feel it when you are asleep. You don't get it while you are in port. You don't get it when you are in your small cabin. You don't get it when you slosh around with the less than glamorous bodies on the Lido deck. You don't get it when you are waiting for your food and putting okay food into your mouth.

I wonder exactly how many minutes or hours one actually experiences the "Crystal Difference" when you subtract all those meaningless hours that could be spend on any similar ship. How many minutes and hours does one actually spend in settings where there is some alleged Crystal Difference. An interesting exercise.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.................

About service, I don't agree that Crystal's service is poor or even average. It is above average.

Their secret to success and why so many passengers say that 'Oh they remember me and my family from trip to trip even if I have not been on a Crystal ship in a long time' is......

detailed passenger records with photos that every service employee has to study.

They keep lists of food preferences, allergies (that is good), all Crystal trips made with destinations and which areas people used for their meals: MDR, Lido, room service etc.

Employees are encouraged to call passengers by name as often as possible and to ask about family members and people cruised with in the past.

I would love to do this for and about my own customers! In case you are wondering many hotels do a lot of the same, including using ear pieces to send information about guests around the hotel.

I have not cruised on Crystal but have one coming up - I have cruised twice on RC, once on QM2, once on Celebrity and a 16 day TA on HAL. The food in the dining room of HAL was absolutely awful! We also experienced the battle of the elderly with one woman knocking another woman on a walker down because she spoiled her view of the dancing. The casino stunk as well (not because I lost because both DH and I made money). Finally a guy in the casino suggested we try the buffet (I don't like buffets for dinner) as they had a pasta station that was good. They DID treat us very well up there. I think cruising is subjective - you may like the food that I think is inedible, although our entire table of 8 hated the food on HAL, each to their own.

Crystal is also the "Battle of the Elderly" (as you charmingly put it) so be prepared. Walkers, wheelchairs, and stuffed bathing suits to the breaking point. There was a pushy, showy, unfriendly attitude among many of the Crystal cruisers, where I found HAL cruisers to be seasoned sea travellers who understood the politeness necessary when sharing a small space together.

Just factor in what you are paying for your Crystal food, and see if you can justify it for the extra costs. You may like it better than HAL food, but is it really $300 a meal better? Be sure to ponder this and get back to us.

Or is Crystal gouging you and making you think you are getting something that in fact may or may not be only nominally better.

Both HAL and Crystal did some things well and some things not so well. Except HAL at least priced themselves realistically. Crystal gouges you and yet does not deliver that much better of a product and in many ways, an inferior product.

Let's just say that Crystal offers a different product. If you like being called by name all day and night long (I don't) and having your family mentioned by employees....then go for Crystal.

I prefer the European style of service where my waiter is not my best friend for the duration of the journey. I have no interest in chatting with staff or having my room stewardess say 'oh that dress is so lovely. So nice you are wearing it AGAIN this cruise.'

As I said I am not here to defend Crystal. Of all the luxury lines it is probably my least favorite. I much prefer Seabourn and /or Silversea where everything is included. It's not just food, it's gratuities, alcohol (and please don't give me the old saw about how you don't drink so alcohol is not important. Many people don't use a lot of other things on board a ship for which they are charged and don't complain) open seating and yes, much better food. You want caviar in your suite or around the pool, just ask. You want a platter of fresh crab and lobster as your first course for dinner tomorrow night, just ask. I agree to many people the difference is not worth it but for those to whom it is worth it it is nice to know the luxury option is there. That is why there are so many cruise lines. Remember those HAL devotees may get the exact same argument from Carnival or RCCL cruisers who don't think it's worth the price difference to sail with HAL. To each his own!

It comes through loud and clear that your Crystal cruise was a $$ and cruise disappointment...and naturally you will not be taking another Crystal cruise.---Fortunately you have found HAL. Sorry to hear that you and others were indisposed on a long 42 day voyage. Your recent experience reminds me of the 30+ day on a Princess cruise with hacking and otherwise indisposed passengers: not pretty and downright scary. -- A cruise buddy who is still taking chemo treatments is only willing to take Crystal: having observed the diligent wipe down of the public areas, etc.

Please don't leave the impression my 42 day cruise where many people got upper respiratory infections was a HAL cruise. It was on an entirely different independent line - Voyages of Discovery. HAL is very conscientious about hand cleaning and wiping too.

That was a disappointment on the Discovery, as they could have used more hand sanitizing stations. But they also attract mainly repeat passengers who were very well-seasoned cruisers who knew to exercise more common sense than we did to prevent these onboard infection problems.

The Discovery is a small old ship that is full of very savvy well-travelled people and a total delight for what it does offer. It was to our innocent chagrin we picked up the common infection and also to my grave disappointment I did not face those two solid weeks of high seas very well -- but most of the passengers did just fine.

Discovery passengers are no-frills, sturdy passengers and a good time was had by all, including me regardless of the at sea day difficulties. We saw grand parts of the world and I would do it all again in an instant, if this were the only way to cover so much ground and see so much.

I appreciated both HAL's and Crystals attempts to keep everyone healthy. One more aspect that is equal in service between the two, when one is still trying to figure what is Crystal's value-added for the price. Certainly ship sanitation is not one of them. Both lines get high marks.

I would hate to have your post leave the wrong impression that you were faulting HAL to the betterment of Crystal, again giving them a credit they did not earn or deserve.

PS. Glad you are enjoying reading all my posts.

This reminds me of that old ploy used by some guests at the Beverly Hills Hotel (which reminds me a lot of Crystal, all saccharine and over-stuffed fluff) where a poolside lunch guest would arrange ahead of time for someone to call them, just so they could get paged in a very public way and let all the other guests hear the sound of their own name.

The Crystal CC fans mention this forced name remembrance more than any other feature they value about their Crystal Experience. Nice to learn how this happens behind the scenes. This indeed is a money maker for Crystal, as their repeat passengers love it. Wow.

Maybe instead of trying to figure how much more each meal costs on Crystal, all other aspects being equal I should figure out how valuable it is to hear the sound of your own name parroted by an overly trained staff person. I guess for some this is priceless.

This forced name-recognition beats HAL ships, hands down. I don't think HAL would ever force their employees to learn the next batch of passengers names and familier by rote, just to suck up to them. HAL service is more spontaneous and genuinely friendly yet always professional.

HAL service people seem to genuinely enjoy their jobs, no matter who the passengers are. They know the art of hospitality first. It is in their make-up and I gather this is how and why they get chosen for their jobs in the first place. They don't rely on cloying memory tricks to establish fake rapport. They don't have to.

oops!
 

Having read other posts, I missed the name of your recent cruise with Discovery. Didn't mean to snipe at HAL. -- A bit tired of your Crystal snipes... I am moving on.

Good, because I am fully enjoying finally finding a place where one can be candid about Crystal, and not get banned from Planet Earth.

Well, at least so far!

As a relatively new cruiser (just two, one booked for later this year), I am thoroughly enjoying this thread. Thanksfor all the candid comments.

Since cost isn't really an issue for the Flews', we do have options. I have to say some of the tone & attitude of the 'pro-Crystal' camp so far on this thread has me pretty well convinced to continue exploring any cruise line BUT Crystal...

Cheers,

Seems like every ship has a personality match and it is often trial and error to finds what feels best. That is why it is helpful to sort out where a ship puts its emphasis, marketing niche and customer base targets.

It would be good to make a list of what elements matter most to see what ships overall appeal matches what you most want. And in no particular order, pick a couple that matter most and see what comparisons one can come up with between different lines:

1. Itinerary, dates, length of cruise
2. Safety and sanitation
3. Excursions
4. Ship board activities
5. Age group of typical passengers
6. Dining options
7. Dining reputation
8. Entertainment/casinos
9. Background of crew
10. Dominant languages spoken
11. "Noise" on ship - activities, announcements, cruise director styles
12. Quality of decor, eye appeal of public rooms
13. Size/amenities of cabins
14. Type of lectures and enrichment programs
15. Value for dollar
16. Religious service options
17. Tipping polices
18. Inclusions/ non-inclusions
19. Loyalty packages and perks
20. Dress guidelines, formal nights
21. Deck and outdoor activity layouts
22. Alcohol policies/ drink prices
23. Ship board shopping
24. .......
25. .......

Very good idea.

For me: safety and sanitation, destination of cruise (ports), value for my US$ and general ambiance. We understand food on mass market cruise lines in not going to be wonderful, but as long as it is decent, we are OK.

Average age of passengers is an issue, but isn't a deal killer. My husband refuses to travel with a tux and will not book a ship that has assigned main dining and fixed dining times unless there are enough options to avoid the MDR.

I'm not kidding anyone when I say that with its price increases, Crystal has marched itself out of what we are willing to pay.

I have no earthly idea why the name of this thread is Cruise Critic. It should be entitled Disgruntled Crystal Cruisers.

I like "Freedom of Information Action" better.

Would you feel the same way if all these negative posts were about HAL?

If HAL oversells and over-hypes and over prices itself, let 'em have it. HAL has earned my loyalty, but am no blind apologist. Nor should the candid discussion of Crystal get silenced the way it does on Cruise Critic. You can't even say their perfectly awful breads are perfectly awful.

The problem comes when you keep repeating yourself over and over and over.
So much of your own personality is exposed that you should feel a bit naked(uncomfortable). I'm happy you are happy with HAL. There are so many options in this industry, there is no reason to be stagnant. Within the Carnival family, they have a line ready after you tire of HAL....and you will.

No one is silencing Carnival fans here. That is the point. Post away. I recently sailed 42 days on Voyages of Discovery. Keep reading and you will learn about a lot of cruise lines here, even from me.

I've read most of your posts on FT. You have taken four cruises. The first being Crystal, for which you hold great bitterness. Had you done your homework, you would have known you were setting yourself up for disappointment. Two on HAL and the recent 42 day Discovery voyage.

Six years ago, light consideration was given to Crystal. Ten minutes of research and it clearly was not my bag. I've looked at HAL, but cannot pull the trigger. Tried a weekend on Celebrity two years ago and that was enough for this lifetime. Forty days spent on ships this year and another thirty+ booked, but I'm open to learning more from you. But please, let us know about your most recent trip and give it a rest on your first. Thanks!

The problem is you keep reading me over and over again. To be forewarned is to be forearmed. You have my number. Now move along, nothing more to see here.

You failed to count 60 days going around the world on the Galileo, two separate cruises 10 day Mediterranean cruises on the Chandris Fantasia, 7 day Amur River Cruise in Russia Far East. That adds up to over 150 days cruising on the high and low seas on 7 different cruise lines.

Now go to bed, and stop stalking me. Life exists before one starts posting on Flyertalk. I am now a Travel Century Club member (102 countries visited). I know of what I speak, when it comes to travel...... and cruising.

And finally, Crystal took us to places we wanted to see. The ship was safe and clean. The food was okay. It was a good cruise on these specific points and those qualities are ones we look for in any cruise. HAL cruises have been in the same category, as was Voyages of Discovery.

If you had read my posts closely (read them again) my primary gripe about Crystal is its price and its hype and lack of value for the price it charges.

Crystal does a lot of things poorly, like shore excursions, baked goods, cabin size, claustrophobic dining room, intrusive and cloying staff, their specialty restaurants and onboard lectures and enrichment activities. There is nothing special about its service or its clientele that adds value.

The only thing Crystal has that sets it apart is lavish marketing and better interior public room decor but outside decks are totally lacking in comfort or amenities.

But hey, you have already heard me say this.

Crystal has raised its prices on land tours and excursions (according to those posting on Cruise Critic about this) in order to eat up the free cruise credits it gives passengers when they book at the new sky high prices for the cruises.

Crystal has now priced itself out of the upper end of the main stream market for people in North America. Even with all the 'As you Wish' cruise credits, the costs are so far out of reasonable for us, that as far as I'm concerned Crystal is no longer an option for this family.

It doesn't matter what Crystal offers or does, we are no longer considering this company for future bookings. We will travel with other companies both by sea and at land resorts.

Having experience now with shore excursions with HAL and Voyages of Discovery, the ones we took with Crystal were exceptionally poor in comparison. Inferior guides, too much "shopping" emphasis and shallow exposure to the ports. And they were not cheap.

Interesting to see they con passengers with onboard credits only to suck it back with higher excursion prices. Why should this surprise me. Crystal was too large to get into many of the downtown docks, which was an advantage for the much smaller Discovery, which made one dependent on some sort of pricey port arrangements on your own or the ships now even pricier shore excursions.

Crystal promised free "shuttles" which never happened in most ports allegedly due to taxi driver complaints, except Dubai which took one only to a remote shopping mall.

And in the interests of full disclosure, this also happened on the Discovery when it was not close to a town or a safe area as in some of the South African cities like Port Elizabeth and Durban - and the shuttles cost five pounds sterling RT.

All of this is illustrative showing the brochure price for a trip ..... is only the beginning. It is the credit card you pay off once you get home that is the real cost of a cruise line.

I am the OP (orignal poster) of the thread and if you read my first post you will see I had questions on cruisecritic since someone claimed a negative post on Crystal was deleted. I heard that Cruisecritic was owned by a travel agency thus biased. The fact that it is owned by Travelocity makes me believe it is NOT on the level of "consumer reports magazine" etc. Welcome to the world of a hijacked thread.

A recent CC post reminding people about getting robbed in Antigua two blocks from the ship, and the really awful incident a few months back where some passengers on a Caribbean island ship excursion were ambushed and robbed resulted in the entire thread vanishing, which was on the topic of choosing to use ship excursions or trying to do things independently at certain Caribbean ports.

The memory of these tragic events was apparently too painful for the powers that be that run CC. So they leave their customers uninformed and unaware so that nothing dampens future sales. Caveat Emptor.

No matter how tragic any circumstance may be if it has nothing to do with the original post it should be removed. If one wants to warn others about something start a new post with the salient information in the title of the thread so it will attract those interested. Otherwise, like in this instance where people might be interested in Cruise Critic all they find find out about is peoples' dissatisfaction with Crystal. This thread, as Centurion mentioned, was well and truly highjacked.

Only opinion that matters here is the Mods'.

Here's a FAQ on who owns Cruise Critic

http://chatter.princessonly.com/inde...ic,3368.0.html

Very, very interesting. And here I thought all these ads I have been getting as pop-ups was just a random shot in the dark ................;)

With Expedia, Hotel.com, hotwire and TripAdvisor all in cahoots, no sense going to all those websites independently looking for the good deals. Which BTW have left the station a few years ago. I rarely find bargains anymore on the online travel groups that beat the deals I get directly from the airlines, hotel or cruiseline.

Expedia et al homogenized themselves out of a marketing niche.

I was banned from CC a few years back "forever". I was so incensed I used my hardly exceptional IT prowess and re-registered a few times just to irritate the hell out of the guy who bounced me. Slightly different handle each time so it was absolutely clear it was me.

The background was a moderator who oversaw two different 6* cruise lines forums. I subsequently discovered that he had a very close relationship with one line and did everything to foster an nudge along good feedback and deleted bad feedback. He fostered a clubby atmosphere on that forum. He did the reverse with the other forum. It was becoming very obvious. I didn't face it down but commented about the different "atmosphere" on each and the differing tone of moderation.. Several long-timers explained through PM's about the "special treatment" he was getting from his favoured line. The other line didn't play ball. It was then that the penny dropped. And it was then that I was bounced.

I have reregistered .... but I can't think of anything irritating enough to do .... it still wrankles.

You are in good company. My banishment came because I complained about the quality of the ice cream served on Crystal ships. Reminds me of a little ditty about those who (ahem) live in glass houses ...... or Crystal ships - they are hard, brittle and deadly with their sharp edges. Not a fun ship at all.