Confused on PIN and also "Tap"
 

OK folks. I'm getting more confused with the whole PIN thing for using a card as Chip & PIN. I'm going to be spending a good chunk of the Summer going around France and Italy by plane, train, automobile, Metro. Here's my thing:

A couple of years ago, I was told that an actual Chip & PIN card had a hard-coded PIN embedded in it. The "set your own" that are on our US cards isn't the same. All of my Credit Cards and my Debit Card all have 4-digit PINS that I set myself.

I know I can use them in the bancomats - I've used my Debit card over in Europe for a few years. BUT, what about those automated kiosks for tickets, gas, tolls???? Those places where "Sig" isn't possible???

And, to add to it - if I'm able to do "Tap to pay", will I be asked for a PIN sometimes? I've heard rumors about that.

Thanks for helping out an old woman with severe COVID brain!!!

This is inaccurate. PINs can be changed, typically at an ATM. The difference is how the Chip that is embedded in the card is programmed. The Chip in the card communicates with the payment terminal, and this determines whether a PIN is required to complete the transaction. (Yes, Contactless card transactions do "sometimes" require a PIN.)

USA-issued cards are not all programmed the same. Tell us the names of the card(s) that you plan to use in Europe, and someone will tell you what to expect when you use them.

Thanks.
I'll be using my AMEX Plat card - newly renewed so it's an "up do date" card
Barclays View Mastercard
Unify FCU Visa

I don't know about Unify but the general rule is if PIN isn't used when inserting, it won't be used for tap either. Even if it were, PIN generally only happens if you exceed the country's contactless limit anyway (or could exceed it, e.g. when using gas pumps). Plus, you can always tap a phone instead to avoid PIN entirely when abroad.

I have encountered several situations in France: on highway toll booths most Visa or MasterCard work, amex is spotty. In stores, Amex is not accepted a lot of times, if it is, they typically want a signature. Visa and mc are pretty much universally accepted, a lot of times the cashier doesn't know what to do with the signature slip that is generated and just throws it away. Some make you sign. At some gas stations none of my US cards worked. So, YMMV.

Thanks for the replies.

I've been traveling throughout Europe since the early 80s. I know about AMEX. I'm not so worried about brick & mortar places - I can sign. It's the self-service kiosks at the train and metro stations, gas stations, things like that. Last time I was in Rome, I had to find a person in a window at the metro to buy my ticket. I have a VISA CC from my Credit Union that I use as my "just in case" card over there.
Being a Apple Wallet neophyte, good to know I can just tap with the wallet! I just have to see how to put my CU CC on it.

Don’t worry about that. I have several US-issued cards that do not have PINs and these work perfectly fine at train kiosks etc either through Apple Pay, tapping, or are authorised automatically when I insert the card.

depending on the country, sometimes you have to enter a PIN if transaction is over a certain limit (or count)

eg UK is £100 (while apple pay/google pay can go over limit, since you have to authenticate PIN/fingerprint)
https://www.theguardian.com/money/20...00-from-friday

in some countries: you might be forced to enter your PIN when using contactless 5 times in a row
https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.c...es-why-1336181


but of course, depending on the location, holding an iPhone out may be riskier than holding a credit card (someone snatching off your iPhone)




that said, my recent trips (pre-covid) in europe, contactless definitely helps, no signature/PIN typically
(2015- using a chip&signature card at Tesco self checkout = finding the store-attendant to sign the paper receipt

2019- tap&pay, no issues)

Many (most?) US credit/charge cards are not issued with a PIN.

Even many of the ones that do have PIN are programmed such that it's asked only as a last resort, or at best only for things like gas pumps. Which, considering how my UNFCU credit card (one of the only ones that prefer PIN both with contactless and when inserting) behaves domestically, may be for the best.

Most US-issued cards are online-PIN.

In Europe, many of our cards still are off-line PIN, as in the PIN is embedded into the chip on the card and thus, does not require contacting the card issuer. A PIN entry is required for every transation that has a card insert ; sans contact <50€ transactions are approved without PIN generally.

In France, the vast majority of machines thesedays will accept online-PIN from MC and Visa worldwide (Amex is far less accepted in Europe). Thus US cards will not be an issue at most public transit kiosks, toll booths, etc... at stores you will be given a paper slip to sign. Or maybe not, sometimes the cashier just doesn't care because signature is not the usual way to authenticate.

Where problems may occur : older automated fuel pumps that still only use off-line PIN. These are scattered and generally the exception; the ones at the autoroute rest stops will be newer.

I think only France has widespread automated fuel pumps though. In Italy, Espagne, Germany, Suisse, most places you fill the car/moto first and then go inside to pay.

I lived in Italy for the last nine months. If I spent over E50 and used an American card tap would not work (even though my card is tap enabled). I would have to insert the card and then sign the receipt. No pin was required ever. Strangely using Google Pay with the same credit card could be used just by tapping the phone. Google & Apple Pay are surprisingly accepted at most places that take credit cards (at least in Naples).

Exercise caution
 

I just returned from a 1-week visit to Belgium. (Previously, I worked/lived in Belgium for many years.) Apple Pay worked perfectly with my Citi Premier and C1 Venture card in many businesses. I did have trouble using my Amex Platinum with Apple Pay for some reason, but didn’t troubleshoot the matter, as the other cards worked perfectly.

None of my USA cards worked, however, at an automated fuel station and at an underground parking garage. (Fortunately, a family member just used their Belgian debit card to save the day.)

Though I’d had trouble using USA cards with unattended gas and parking situations on previous visits to Belgium, I’d read that PIN priority credit cards were no longer required. Sadly, this did not prove to be the case. The gas station was a large one near the Brussels Airport, the parking lot was a municipal one near the city center. I don’t know if you will encounter the same issues in France, but but it sounds like I need to obtain a PIN priority card for future visits!

As mentioned earlier, NFC on phones is more secure from the bank's perspective (since you need a pin/fingerprint/face) to unlock phone and use NFC, except if you have express transit mode enabled and paying a transit fare


credit card? If you lose it, anyone can pick it up and start tapping

Automated (or completely unattended) fuel pumps are also the norm in the Benelux, and they're not rare in Italy. Stations where the shop is closed all day Sunday do seem to be a uniquely French problem, but buying fuel at night is usually automated or nothing.

I lived in Belgium up until ~9 months ago, and the change was that offline PIN generally isn't required anymore. There are still a fair number of unattended terminals--mostly gas pumps and parking--that do require PIN but online-only cards (e.g. most credit union cards and virtually all American debit cards) nearly always work as of ~2018. Cards without PIN still won't work. For occasional visitors, just using your debit card for those few things is the easiest way to go. There are a few shops that are Bancontact-only, but with the exception of DATS24 gas stations, they're all places you can just pay cash.

Your Amex probably didn't work because virtually no one in Belgium takes Amex due to the much higher interchange fees.

I wonder if this is a good use case for something like Revolut. While a normal debit card will work fine, some/much of the general public seem to be wary of using them for various reasons (FTF, viewing them as "unsafe" compared to credit cards, etc.) Something that you keep little money in until needed may be more palatable, even if the chances of something going wrong with a standard debit card are pretty low.

Thanks very much for your helpful response!

Bumping this thread as I haven’t see too much discussion recently of the best US issued cards to use at unattended terminals in Europe.

Is the consensus still that US issued Barclays cards are the best for when a PIN is required at an unattended terminal, or has Barclays made changes to the authorization priority in their cards (I feel like I may have read this somewhere a few months ago?) that has changed that?

Barclays still supports PIN but it's definitely lowest priority now. Most other cards as far as I can tell have either done the same or outright eliminated it entirely (such as Andrews).

Anyway, for casual travelers I don't even think PIN is something they should look for anymore (given that contactless support has been mandatory* in most of the world for a bit). Simply add a no-FTF card to Apple or Google Pay and tap your phone for everything instead. Even tapping a physical card instead of a phone is going to avoid signature/visits to manned stations for most transactions anyway, especially now that limits are a lot higher than they used to be.

* I'm sure there are still a few merchants/unattended machines that don't support it, but there are also likely alternatives for at least some of those (such as buying tickets online instead of in person). Or at the very least, they're places like hotels that are used to signature anyway. Most of the rest I suspect are probably ones that would have had problems with US-issued cards regardless (i.e. because they only run cards offline or block foreign cards for whatever reason).

I am in France presently and ran into the problem at a very convenient and well priced Esso station. I recently got a Wise debit card but because it is issued in the US, it does not have offline PIN. I tried a friend's Swedish CC and it worked no problem. The machine appeared relatively modern but did not have contactless, so could be 10+ years old.It had a color display and created a menu in Swedish. I was a bit surprised that Esso has unmanned stations.

Until 2021, I had a Danish bank account with debit card, so a bit disappointed that Wise is not a replacement. An interesting anecdote maybe 10 years ago at a rural unmanned Swedish fuel pump, I tried my Danish card to no avail. Then for the hell of it, I tried a US CC with a chip (very early days for this on US cards) and it worked without a PIN request.