Jan 8, 22, 10:16 pm
Last edit by: SPN Lifer
Older (archived) threads:
2017- 21
2014-16
- - - - - -
FAQ
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
CDCVM supported in MSD mode
2017- 21
2014-16
- - - - - -
FAQ
- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of near-field communication (NFC)/contactless that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature. (EMV stands for Europay, MasterCard & Visa, the 1994 founders of the EMV chip or smart chip technology.)
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules. - What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*
- Athleta
- Auntie Annes Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (cards, stickers or NFC smartphones)
Sep 23, 23, 10:59 pm
#856
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,230
Americans don't like being told what to do. It's just part of the culture. Bribes work better than mandates.
The liability shift only had an impact on merchants that are typically targeted by fraudsters. Someone who has successfully cloned a card isn't likely to waste time using it at a Chinese restaurant, so such merchants didn't bother, and only shifted to EMV years later when their machines were due for replacement anyway.
In my experience, the transition to EMV is mostly complete, although every once in a way I still see someone swiping my card. I have no problem with it, since stolen card numbers are mostly useless these days.
The liability shift only had an impact on merchants that are typically targeted by fraudsters. Someone who has successfully cloned a card isn't likely to waste time using it at a Chinese restaurant, so such merchants didn't bother, and only shifted to EMV years later when their machines were due for replacement anyway.
In my experience, the transition to EMV is mostly complete, although every once in a way I still see someone swiping my card. I have no problem with it, since stolen card numbers are mostly useless these days.
Sep 24, 23, 10:29 pm
#857
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,366
Maybe only tangentially related to this thread, but has anyone ever had certain Chase cards just show up in Google Pay as being "not accepted" by the merchant and thus not selectable? The card in question definitely works if I manually enter the card number on the website (and other Visa cards in Google Pay do show as being selectable), so I don't think it's something the merchant's doing.
MC eventually disallowing the magstripe on cards later this decade might end up being that mandate, even if it still seems pretty weak. I'm kinda surprised the other networks haven't followed suit (that I know of), though, so I wouldn't be surprised if a certain subset of the ones who still haven't upgraded by then just end up becoming Visa only or something.
MC eventually disallowing the magstripe on cards later this decade might end up being that mandate, even if it still seems pretty weak. I'm kinda surprised the other networks haven't followed suit (that I know of), though, so I wouldn't be surprised if a certain subset of the ones who still haven't upgraded by then just end up becoming Visa only or something.
Sep 26, 23, 11:21 am
#858
Join Date: Sep 2023
Posts: 7
Americans don't like being told what to do. It's just part of the culture. Bribes work better than mandates.
The liability shift only had an impact on merchants that are typically targeted by fraudsters. Someone who has successfully cloned a card isn't likely to waste time using it at a Chinese restaurant, so such merchants didn't bother, and only shifted to EMV years later when their machines were due for replacement anyway.
In my experience, the transition to EMV is mostly complete, although every once in a way I still see someone swiping my card. I have no problem with it, since stolen card numbers are mostly useless these days.
The liability shift only had an impact on merchants that are typically targeted by fraudsters. Someone who has successfully cloned a card isn't likely to waste time using it at a Chinese restaurant, so such merchants didn't bother, and only shifted to EMV years later when their machines were due for replacement anyway.
In my experience, the transition to EMV is mostly complete, although every once in a way I still see someone swiping my card. I have no problem with it, since stolen card numbers are mostly useless these days.
Sep 27, 23, 7:24 am
#860
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 194
Here's a weird one for y'all...
I upgraded to an iPhone 15 over the weekend and added all of my cards back to Wallet. Among others, I use an Apple Card as my "catch all" for places with contactless. On Saturday, I went to a merchant with a Square register and upon trying to pay, the customer-facing screen showed "Payment Canceled" so I ended up using the card stored in my Apple Watch (Series 4). I didn't think much of it, used the Apple Card + iPhone 15 combo at a few other places (groceries, Target, etc.), and all was fine. On Sunday, I went to the coffee shop around the corner and the same thing happened, but this time I used a different card (Chase Visa) on my phone and that worked. That all sorts of rules out any hardware issue with my phone.
Someone else was seeing the same behavior with a 15 Pro and an Apple Watch Ultra 2, so I wondered if it was either new devices or newly-added cards to any devices. I reached out to Goldman Sachs and Apple—GS basically just kicked me over to Apple and Apple said there was some maintenance and opened a case. The support person and I had a nice chat about what could be the cause and my theories—I removed and re-added the card to both of my devices as a troubleshooting step, but also to see if my watch would now fail the same way (newly-added card theory). They wanted me to update if that broke things on my Watch.
Sure enough, on Monday, I went back to the first merchant, tried the Apple Card with both devices (they weren't busy and willing to humor me since I go there quite a bit) and both showed "Payment Canceled" on the customer-facing screen and on the cashier-facing screen.
It seems to be Square-specific, so maybe Goldman Sachs is using a new sequence of device account numbers they don't like? I feel like most places with Square have moved to Toast, so it's not something I come across very often these days. Still, I thought I'd ask here since it's contactless-related, and there's a lot of knowledge on this board.
I upgraded to an iPhone 15 over the weekend and added all of my cards back to Wallet. Among others, I use an Apple Card as my "catch all" for places with contactless. On Saturday, I went to a merchant with a Square register and upon trying to pay, the customer-facing screen showed "Payment Canceled" so I ended up using the card stored in my Apple Watch (Series 4). I didn't think much of it, used the Apple Card + iPhone 15 combo at a few other places (groceries, Target, etc.), and all was fine. On Sunday, I went to the coffee shop around the corner and the same thing happened, but this time I used a different card (Chase Visa) on my phone and that worked. That all sorts of rules out any hardware issue with my phone.
Someone else was seeing the same behavior with a 15 Pro and an Apple Watch Ultra 2, so I wondered if it was either new devices or newly-added cards to any devices. I reached out to Goldman Sachs and Apple—GS basically just kicked me over to Apple and Apple said there was some maintenance and opened a case. The support person and I had a nice chat about what could be the cause and my theories—I removed and re-added the card to both of my devices as a troubleshooting step, but also to see if my watch would now fail the same way (newly-added card theory). They wanted me to update if that broke things on my Watch.
Sure enough, on Monday, I went back to the first merchant, tried the Apple Card with both devices (they weren't busy and willing to humor me since I go there quite a bit) and both showed "Payment Canceled" on the customer-facing screen and on the cashier-facing screen.
It seems to be Square-specific, so maybe Goldman Sachs is using a new sequence of device account numbers they don't like? I feel like most places with Square have moved to Toast, so it's not something I come across very often these days. Still, I thought I'd ask here since it's contactless-related, and there's a lot of knowledge on this board.
Sep 28, 23, 11:27 am
#862
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,366
Apparently they're starting to drill holes in the contactless readers at gas pumps to disable them, forcing people to use the card slots (which of course have skimmers installed): https://www.wgal.com/article/how-sca...tures/45346708. Maybe the suggestion of contactless-only pumps that was made a while ago does have merit after all, even if that's still unlikely to happen any time soon (or at all).
Also, for those in Philadelphia, open loop is getting turned on at SEPTA tomorrow: https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news...-here/3655210/.
Also, for those in Philadelphia, open loop is getting turned on at SEPTA tomorrow: https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news...-here/3655210/.
Sep 28, 23, 11:43 am
#863
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 134
Pretty good advertisement for contactless if apparently it's so secure that thieves don't even try tampering with them; they just destroy them.
Sep 28, 23, 11:45 am
#864
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 78
I tried to tap my Chase Freedom at a Valero station today and got this message (sorry for the bad photo). This station has Wayne pumps with EMV contact and only MSD contactless (last time it worked). My card has both EMV and MSD contactless, so that shouldnt be the issue.
Sep 28, 23, 11:50 am
#865
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,366
I wonder if that's still true for cards that are getting replaced now. It's been long enough since EMV contactless was supposedly required at the terminal level (for those enabling contactless at all) that issuers might be okay with no longer including MSD. I also don't remember going anywhere recently that's still using MSD, but that may not mean much.
Sep 28, 23, 11:53 am
#866
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 78
I wonder if that's still true for cards that are getting replaced now. It's been long enough since EMV contactless was supposedly required at the terminal level (for those enabling contactless at all) that issuers might be okay with no longer including MSD. I also don't remember going anywhere recently that's still using MSD, but that may not mean much.
Sep 29, 23, 2:10 am
#867
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,366
I went to the MC locator for the first time in quite a while and apparently WF ATMs are showing up on there now. Does this mean that they may actually accept taps for cards from other banks? If so, they beat out Chase, BofA, US Bank and others (though it still took a lot longer than it should have).
Sep 29, 23, 1:31 pm
#868
Join Date: Sep 2022
Programs: United Mileage Plus
Posts: 509
Apparently they're starting to drill holes in the contactless readers at gas pumps to disable them, forcing people to use the card slots (which of course have skimmers installed): https://www.wgal.com/article/how-sca...tures/45346708. Maybe the suggestion of contactless-only pumps that was made a while ago does have merit after all, even if that's still unlikely to happen any time soon (or at all).
Also, for those in Philadelphia, open loop is getting turned on at SEPTA tomorrow: https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news...-here/3655210/.
Also, for those in Philadelphia, open loop is getting turned on at SEPTA tomorrow: https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news...-here/3655210/.
you mean the mag stripe slots or EMV slots?
when are they going to stop issue8ng cards with the mag stripes?
seems like all POS is now contactless or EMV.
Sep 29, 23, 3:27 pm
#869
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,366
For gas pumps, they're one and the same. They just typically read the chip instead of the magstripe when inserting.
Supposedly 2028 or so for Mastercard. No word about the others.
Supposedly 2028 or so for Mastercard. No word about the others.
