Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Credit, Debit and Prepaid Card Programs > Credit Card Programs
Reload this Page >

Apple and Goldman Sachs to partner on new credit card

Apple and Goldman Sachs to partner on new credit card

Old Mar 27, 19, 1:09 pm
  #76  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Gold
Posts: 14,584
Originally Posted by RedSun View Post
Buying a $100 VGC has nothing to do with MS. It is very common during holiday time. It is a store policy to check ID and card for any GC >= $100.
I don't think stores care all that much about the amount. After all, there are those who don't allow any GC purchases with credit cards (from personal experience, too)--not just with contactless. And I wasn't even trying to buy a VGC or MGC, just a $25 Amazon GC so I could get 5x using Chase Pay and subsequently 5x on at least a portion of my next Amazon purchase.

Originally Posted by RedSun View Post
There are still a lot of credit card frauds going on. I guess most are from the traditional CC frauds, but stores are very nervous about its payment system. I'm sure the NFC and contactless technology makes it safer, but the stores do not know that. They still prefer to check ID and the physical credit cards.
I find that a significant number of customers actually prefer that their IDs are checked. Staff should still realize that it's pointless to with a mobile wallet, though.

Originally Posted by RedSun View Post
Also, the POS may not work properly, the phone may not get the mobile signal etc. The shoppers behind you would stare at you for holding the lines. I'll only use my phone if I get any benefits. Otherwise, most people still prefer the old light plastics....
The POS can break for regular cards, too, yet that doesn't seem to stop people. This morning, even, my local 7-Eleven was cash only at one register because the terminal at it was broken.

BTW, Apple Pay doesn't require a data connection once you've provisioned the card.

Originally Posted by RedSun View Post
Think about the Apple Cash Pay. It generated a lot of excitement too. But most of the kids now use Venmo. Probably PayPal is more popular then Apple Cash Pay.
Different situation. For one thing, P2P services don't interoperate, so they depend more on network effect than, say, a Mastercard that will work anywhere that accepts Mastercard just like one from any other issuer. And since Apple got in late on P2P, it's a lot harder to get people to move away from e.g. Venmo (especially when all their other friends are using the latter).

Originally Posted by mikesyr18 View Post
What makes this card a superior contactless option? It offers 2% back on Apple Pay purchases. I can get that with the Double Cash or a USAA Limitless, or any other 2% card out there.
Instant provisioning in the phone on approval without having to wait for the physical card to come in the mail, unlike every single card I've ever gotten approved for. Plus, not needing to download yet another app to manage it.

Originally Posted by mikesyr18 View Post
Especially because consumers are so cautious about contactless in the first place.
Wouldn't that prevent contactless cards from taking hold, if true? And make it more likely that people just use Apple Pay and the like instead?

Originally Posted by fliesdelta View Post
iPhones don't need a mobile signal or wifi to use Apple Pay.

I don't know if the same can be said of Android phones.
Google Pay works without a data connection, but IIRC there's a limit as to the number of purchases you can make without one. I don't know the limit offhand since it's never come up.
tmiw is online now  
Old Mar 27, 19, 2:39 pm
  #77  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: SFO
Programs: AS MVP, SK, UR, MR
Posts: 1,096
Originally Posted by mikesyr18 View Post
Ah, minimum wage employees at their best.
Originally Posted by RedSun View Post
You know how many American people live with minimum wages?
Originally Posted by RedSun View Post
American people are very conservative.
You get what you ask for. No phone maker or bank has everyone for a customer.

Originally Posted by RedSun View Post
There are still a lot of credit card frauds going on. I guess most are from the traditional CC frauds, but stores are very nervous about its payment system. I'm sure the NFC and contactless technology makes it safer, but the stores do not know that. They still prefer to check ID and the physical credit cards.
Dealing with nervous people has not proved beneficial to me.
vanillabean is offline  
Old Mar 27, 19, 2:42 pm
  #78  
Hyatt 10+ BadgeMarriott 5+ Badge
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: EWR/PHL/BWI
Posts: 3,718
Originally Posted by mia View Post
What happens if you tell the cashier that you do not have the card with you?
The sale was denied... Plain and simple. Manager was called upon. Happened at two of the local Shoprite stores.
RedSun is online now  
Old Mar 27, 19, 2:51 pm
  #79  
Hyatt 10+ BadgeMarriott 5+ Badge
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: EWR/PHL/BWI
Posts: 3,718
Originally Posted by jags86 View Post

2) This isnít about getting people who spend $50k plus onto the Apple Card, itís about generating further adoption of Apple Pay and locking you further into the Apple ecosystem.
You are right with this. It is all about Apple Pay traffic and the future for more people to buy more phones.

I do not think Goldman will ever want to build its retail business. One trader can just make $10MM and they do not need to hire thousands people to build its retail business. I just do not know how long the Marcus venture is going to go....
RedSun is online now  
Old Mar 27, 19, 2:56 pm
  #80  
Hyatt 10+ BadgeMarriott 5+ Badge
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: EWR/PHL/BWI
Posts: 3,718
Originally Posted by tmiw View Post
I don't think stores care all that much about the amount. After all, there are those who don't allow any GC purchases with credit cards (from personal experience, too)--not just with contactless. And I wasn't even trying to buy a VGC or MGC, just a $25 Amazon GC so I could get 5x using Chase Pay and subsequently 5x on at least a portion of my next Amazon purchase.
Not really. The store can sell $2,000 GCs, no problem. But they want to check ID and the actual credit cards. It is store policy. The same reason they pulled all $500 GCs, but leave only $200 max GCs.

Chase had Shoprite promotion on up to $400 on Freedom cards on Chase Pay. When I take out my phone to use "Chase Pay", some of the cashiers have no ideas how to do it. Apply Pay may be better than Chase Pay. But how much better? I do not use Apple Pay even I have it right on my phone. No one from my family does.
RedSun is online now  
Old Mar 27, 19, 4:00 pm
  #81  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 958
Originally Posted by RedSun View Post
When I take out my phone to use "Chase Pay", some of the cashiers have no ideas how to do it. Apply Pay may be better than Chase Pay. But how much better? I do not use Apple Pay even I have it right on my phone. No one from my family does.
If you or your family doesn't use ApplePay, then you can't comment on what cashiers ask for, which is absolutely nothing.

The user taps their phone, authenticated with a fingerprint or face, and the terminal processes the transaction. It's fast and works quite well.

ChasePay is completely different, built from the ashes of MCX/CurrentC, which Chase bought for some bizarre reason. The cashier has to scan a QR code from the customer's phone, which is a lot slower process than ApplePay or GooglePay, even if they know what to do (which is rare).
pdxer is offline  
Old Mar 27, 19, 4:08 pm
  #82  
Hyatt 10+ BadgeMarriott 5+ Badge
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: EWR/PHL/BWI
Posts: 3,718
Originally Posted by pdxer View Post
If you or your family doesn't use ApplePay, then you can't comment on what cashiers ask for, which is absolutely nothing.

The user taps their phone, authenticated with a fingerprint or face, and the terminal processes the transaction. It's fast and works quite well.

ChasePay is completely different, built from the ashes of MCX/CurrentC, which Chase bought for some bizarre reason. The cashier has to scan a QR code from the customer's phone, which is a lot slower process than ApplePay or GooglePay, even if they know what to do (which is rare).
I use all digital wallets, Apple Pay, Samsung Pay, Chase Pay, ONLY when there are incentives to use those. I get like a dozen CCs with rotating categories and I do keep them in my phones. I get 2 extra phones just for this purpose. But I've been asked to show the real credit cards so many times....

But I have no incentive to use them. It is just nuisance to me. Probably the same with my family and friends. I do not tell them what to use. They probably care less about cashback, miles and points. Most of them just carry one or two CCs and use Venmo and Paypal. They do not want to handle phone compatibilities.
RedSun is online now  
Old Mar 27, 19, 4:58 pm
  #83  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Gold
Posts: 14,584
Originally Posted by RedSun View Post
Not really. The store can sell $2,000 GCs, no problem. But they want to check ID and the actual credit cards. It is store policy. The same reason they pulled all $500 GCs, but leave only $200 max GCs.
That's the point I've been trying to make, though. It's because of the GC purchases and the policies of the stores you visit (even if misguided), not because of Apple Pay. Apple Pay is just a mechanism for using your card, not something different.

BTW, something that might be relevant for this discussion: https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2019/03/27/millions-are-being-lost-to-apple-pay-fraudwill-apple-card-come-to-the-rescue/.

Originally Posted by pdxer View Post
ChasePay is completely different, built from the ashes of MCX/CurrentC, which Chase bought for some bizarre reason. The cashier has to scan a QR code from the customer's phone, which is a lot slower process than ApplePay or GooglePay, even if they know what to do (which is rare).
QR in itself isn't a dealbreaker. China uses Alipay and WeChat Pay for nearly everything, after all. In fact, the right QR code system could very well have a shot in the US market as well; unfortunately I'm not sure any that have come out thus far qualify.

Originally Posted by RedSun View Post
Most of them just carry one or two CCs and use Venmo and Paypal. They do not want to handle phone compatibilities.
Good thing all of the major mobile wallets (besides Chase Pay) use industry-standard NFC and typically support the same cards across major issuers. With the exception of Apple Card, of course.

Also, the fact that they only have one or two cards makes it more likely they'll just keep the Apple Card as default if they were to ever apply for it.
tmiw is online now  
Old Mar 27, 19, 5:11 pm
  #84  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 958
Originally Posted by tmiw View Post
That's the bank's fault for allowing stolen cards to be added to ApplePay.

QR in itself isn't a dealbreaker. China uses Alipay and WeChat Pay for nearly everything, after all. In fact, the right QR code system could very well have a shot in the US market as well; unfortunately I'm not sure any that have come out thus far qualify.
It's a lot slower to unlock a phone, launch an app, generate a QR code and have it scanned, versus just tapping a phone or watch to the terminal.
pdxer is offline  
Old Mar 27, 19, 5:20 pm
  #85  
Hyatt 10+ BadgeMarriott 5+ Badge
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: EWR/PHL/BWI
Posts: 3,718
Originally Posted by tmiw View Post
That's the point I've been trying to make, though. It's because of the GC purchases and the policies of the stores you visit (even if misguided), not because of Apple Pay. Apple Pay is just a mechanism for using your card, not something different.
There is nothing misguided. It is store policy. All or most of the local ShopRite stores. Other grocery stores are not much better.

The issue is clearly the virtual wallet, Apply Pay included. Most of the traditional stores are still afraid of the new technologies. If you add the cashers earning "minimum wages", it makes things even worse. There is no problem if you just pay with your regular plastics.
RedSun is online now  
Old Mar 27, 19, 5:26 pm
  #86  
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 652
Originally Posted by RedSun View Post
I do not think Goldman will ever want to build its retail business. One trader can just make $10MM and they do not need to hire thousands people to build its retail business. I just do not know how long the Marcus venture is going to go....
I think the fact that Goldman Sachs is launching a consumer credit card with the largest company/user base in the country suggests otherwise.
jags86 is offline  
Old Mar 27, 19, 5:45 pm
  #87  
Hyatt 10+ BadgeMarriott 5+ Badge
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: EWR/PHL/BWI
Posts: 3,718
Originally Posted by jags86 View Post
I think the fact that Goldman Sachs is launching a consumer credit card with the largest company/user base in the country suggests otherwise.
Sure, I can be wrong.

See what the big firms have done? Discover Bank, AmEx Bank, and more. How much they contribute to the top and bottom lines? Marcus has been in business since 2016. This is its first consumer card. Market is not impressed. AAPL still down....

They really need to offer something to excite the market. Do not think they can do anything close to Chase CSR. But even Uber was a good one. Apple Card is not impressive....
RedSun is online now  
Old Mar 27, 19, 6:06 pm
  #88  
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: JRF
Programs: Marriott Platinum, United Silver, National Executive
Posts: 1,456
Originally Posted by fliesdelta View Post
iPhones don't need a mobile signal or wifi to use Apple Pay.

I don't know if the same can be said of Android phones.
If you remember far back enough during the heyday of ISIS Wallet (before that turned out to be a terrorist caliphate) tap to pay on non-Apple phones used to require a secure element in your SIM card, and like Apple Pay did not need any data signal to work. The issue was the "secure element" gave the carriers a foot in the door of the process and they asked for a very small percentage of the fees (much like what Apple gets through Apple Pay today), which Google balked at. Google made an end run around the carriers by virtualizing the secure element in Android Pay and pushed it out on their own with the flaw of requiring an active data connection.

I still think something like Samsung's implementation (mag stripe emulation) is vastly superior, or even the Sony FeliCa-type system (e.g. Mobile Suica) that's been a fixture for more than 20 years in Japan (which Apple Pay now supports, complete with a low-powered transit card mode). Google's half-assed solution for Android is just lazy.
msp3 is offline  
Old Mar 27, 19, 7:00 pm
  #89  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Gold
Posts: 14,584
Originally Posted by pdxer View Post
That's the bank's fault for allowing stolen cards to be added to ApplePay.
Not disagreeing on that. But perhaps there's pressure being applied to stores to do a better job at preventing fraudulent sales in the first place, even if stores themselves aren't liable.

Originally Posted by pdxer View Post
It's a lot slower to unlock a phone, launch an app, generate a QR code and have it scanned, versus just tapping a phone or watch to the terminal.
Also not disagreeing. However, if merchants find that it's much less expensive to, say, accept Venmo (kinda like how Alipay and WeChat Pay supposedly only command interchange of 0.25% or less), I can see a significant chunk of them accepting it immediately and encouraging its use. After all, a lot of people already use Venmo for P2P payments, so it wouldn't be a stretch to start using it to buy things too.

Originally Posted by RedSun View Post
There is nothing misguided. It is store policy. All or most of the local ShopRite stores. Other grocery stores are not much better.

The issue is clearly the virtual wallet, Apply Pay included. Most of the traditional stores are still afraid of the new technologies. If you add the cashers earning "minimum wages", it makes things even worse. There is no problem if you just pay with your regular plastics.
Misguided as in store policies, not your decision to shop at said stores. Though I suspect if you really wanted gift cards, there's at least one store in your area who'd sell them.

Also, when the consequence for letting someone use a card without ID against company/store policy is potentially getting fired (and the loss of badly needed income that results), it's no surprise the cashiers follow the rules to the letter.

Originally Posted by msp3 View Post
If you remember far back enough during the heyday of ISIS Wallet (before that turned out to be a terrorist caliphate) tap to pay on non-Apple phones used to require a secure element in your SIM card, and like Apple Pay did not need any data signal to work. The issue was the "secure element" gave the carriers a foot in the door of the process and they asked for a very small percentage of the fees (much like what Apple gets through Apple Pay today), which Google balked at. Google made an end run around the carriers by virtualizing the secure element in Android Pay and pushed it out on their own with the flaw of requiring an active data connection.
IIRC, even with HCE, the major carriers for the most part refused to allow the old Google Wallet app to be installed on Android devices. It only became a thing after Google bought out the remnants of ISIS/Softcard post-Apple Pay introduction.

Originally Posted by msp3 View Post
I still think something like Samsung's implementation (mag stripe emulation) is vastly superior
In the US maybe. And even then, MST isn't anywhere near 100% reliable in my experience. Not to mention that I find it to be fewer steps to use Google Pay (unlock phone and tap vs. select card, push Pay and then tap for Samsung Pay).
tmiw is online now  
Old Mar 27, 19, 8:02 pm
  #90  
Hyatt 10+ BadgeMarriott 5+ Badge
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: EWR/PHL/BWI
Posts: 3,718
Originally Posted by tmiw View Post
Misguided as in store policies, not your decision to shop at said stores. Though I suspect if you really wanted gift cards, there's at least one store in your area who'd sell them.
As I said again, no one misguided anyone. I'm happy to shop at the store to get 10x Chase UR points. Just that I'll have to use my phone to shake and flash, and show the cashier and her manger my real Chase Freedom card and my driver's license.

Of course I do not want to do it often. So I just tuck my phone away the next time I buy some fried chicken from the same store. So yummy

I will do the same if Apple pays me to get 10x Apple points. But where are those points? I won't do it at a paltry 2% cashback.
RedSun is online now  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search Engine: