tmiw

I don't think stores care all that much about the amount. After all, there are those who don't allow any GC purchases with credit cards (from personal experience, too)--not just with contactless. And I wasn't even trying to buy a VGC or MGC, just a $25 Amazon GC so I could get 5x using Chase Pay and subsequently 5x on at least a portion of my next Amazon purchase.

I find that a significant number of customers actually prefer that their IDs are checked. Staff should still realize that it's pointless to with a mobile wallet, though.

The POS can break for regular cards, too, yet that doesn't seem to stop people. This morning, even, my local 7-Eleven was cash only at one register because the terminal at it was broken.

BTW, Apple Pay doesn't require a data connection once you've provisioned the card.

Different situation. For one thing, P2P services don't interoperate, so they depend more on network effect than, say, a Mastercard that will work anywhere that accepts Mastercard just like one from any other issuer. And since Apple got in late on P2P, it's a lot harder to get people to move away from e.g. Venmo (especially when all their other friends are using the latter).

Instant provisioning in the phone on approval without having to wait for the physical card to come in the mail, unlike every single card I've ever gotten approved for. Plus, not needing to download yet another app to manage it.

Wouldn't that prevent contactless cards from taking hold, if true? And make it more likely that people just use Apple Pay and the like instead?

Google Pay works without a data connection, but IIRC there's a limit as to the number of purchases you can make without one. I don't know the limit offhand since it's never come up.

vanillabean

RedSun

The sale was denied... Plain and simple. Manager was called upon. Happened at two of the local Shoprite stores.

RedSun

You are right with this. It is all about Apple Pay traffic and the future for more people to buy more phones.

I do not think Goldman will ever want to build its retail business. One trader can just make $10MM and they do not need to hire thousands people to build its retail business. I just do not know how long the Marcus venture is going to go....

RedSun

Not really. The store can sell $2,000 GCs, no problem. But they want to check ID and the actual credit cards. It is store policy. The same reason they pulled all $500 GCs, but leave only $200 max GCs.

Chase had Shoprite promotion on up to $400 on Freedom cards on Chase Pay. When I take out my phone to use "Chase Pay", some of the cashiers have no ideas how to do it. Apply Pay may be better than Chase Pay. But how much better? I do not use Apple Pay even I have it right on my phone. No one from my family does.

pdxer

If you or your family doesn't use ApplePay, then you can't comment on what cashiers ask for, which is absolutely nothing.

The user taps their phone, authenticated with a fingerprint or face, and the terminal processes the transaction. It's fast and works quite well.

ChasePay is completely different, built from the ashes of MCX/CurrentC, which Chase bought for some bizarre reason. The cashier has to scan a QR code from the customer's phone, which is a lot slower process than ApplePay or GooglePay, even if they know what to do (which is rare).

RedSun

I use all digital wallets, Apple Pay, Samsung Pay, Chase Pay, ONLY when there are incentives to use those. I get like a dozen CCs with rotating categories and I do keep them in my phones. I get 2 extra phones just for this purpose. But I've been asked to show the real credit cards so many times....

But I have no incentive to use them. It is just nuisance to me. Probably the same with my family and friends. I do not tell them what to use. They probably care less about cashback, miles and points. Most of them just carry one or two CCs and use Venmo and Paypal. They do not want to handle phone compatibilities.

tmiw

That's the point I've been trying to make, though. It's because of the GC purchases and the policies of the stores you visit (even if misguided), not because of Apple Pay. Apple Pay is just a mechanism for using your card, not something different.

BTW, something that might be relevant for this discussion: https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2019/03/27/millions-are-being-lost-to-apple-pay-fraudwill-apple-card-come-to-the-rescue/.

QR in itself isn't a dealbreaker. China uses Alipay and WeChat Pay for nearly everything, after all. In fact, the right QR code system could very well have a shot in the US market as well; unfortunately I'm not sure any that have come out thus far qualify.

Good thing all of the major mobile wallets (besides Chase Pay) use industry-standard NFC and typically support the same cards across major issuers. With the exception of Apple Card, of course.

Also, the fact that they only have one or two cards makes it more likely they'll just keep the Apple Card as default if they were to ever apply for it.

pdxer

That's the bank's fault for allowing stolen cards to be added to ApplePay.

It's a lot slower to unlock a phone, launch an app, generate a QR code and have it scanned, versus just tapping a phone or watch to the terminal.

RedSun

There is nothing misguided. It is store policy. All or most of the local ShopRite stores. Other grocery stores are not much better.

The issue is clearly the virtual wallet, Apply Pay included. Most of the traditional stores are still afraid of the new technologies. If you add the cashers earning "minimum wages", it makes things even worse. There is no problem if you just pay with your regular plastics.

jags86

RedSun

Sure, I can be wrong.

See what the big firms have done? Discover Bank, AmEx Bank, and more. How much they contribute to the top and bottom lines? Marcus has been in business since 2016. This is its first consumer card. Market is not impressed. AAPL still down....

They really need to offer something to excite the market. Do not think they can do anything close to Chase CSR. But even Uber was a good one. Apple Card is not impressive....

msp3

If you remember far back enough during the heyday of ISIS Wallet (before that turned out to be a terrorist caliphate) tap to pay on non-Apple phones used to require a secure element in your SIM card, and like Apple Pay did not need any data signal to work. The issue was the "secure element" gave the carriers a foot in the door of the process and they asked for a very small percentage of the fees (much like what Apple gets through Apple Pay today), which Google balked at. Google made an end run around the carriers by virtualizing the secure element in Android Pay and pushed it out on their own with the flaw of requiring an active data connection.

I still think something like Samsung's implementation (mag stripe emulation) is vastly superior, or even the Sony FeliCa-type system (e.g. Mobile Suica) that's been a fixture for more than 20 years in Japan (which Apple Pay now supports, complete with a low-powered transit card mode). Google's half-assed solution for Android is just lazy.

tmiw

Not disagreeing on that. But perhaps there's pressure being applied to stores to do a better job at preventing fraudulent sales in the first place, even if stores themselves aren't liable.

Also not disagreeing. However, if merchants find that it's much less expensive to, say, accept Venmo (kinda like how Alipay and WeChat Pay supposedly only command interchange of 0.25% or less), I can see a significant chunk of them accepting it immediately and encouraging its use. After all, a lot of people already use Venmo for P2P payments, so it wouldn't be a stretch to start using it to buy things too.

Misguided as in store policies, not your decision to shop at said stores. Though I suspect if you really wanted gift cards, there's at least one store in your area who'd sell them.

Also, when the consequence for letting someone use a card without ID against company/store policy is potentially getting fired (and the loss of badly needed income that results), it's no surprise the cashiers follow the rules to the letter.

IIRC, even with HCE, the major carriers for the most part refused to allow the old Google Wallet app to be installed on Android devices. It only became a thing after Google bought out the remnants of ISIS/Softcard post-Apple Pay introduction.

In the US maybe. And even then, MST isn't anywhere near 100% reliable in my experience. Not to mention that I find it to be fewer steps to use Google Pay (unlock phone and tap vs. select card, push Pay and then tap for Samsung Pay).

RedSun

As I said again, no one misguided anyone. I'm happy to shop at the store to get 10x Chase UR points. Just that I'll have to use my phone to shake and flash, and show the cashier and her manger my real Chase Freedom card and my driver's license.

Of course I do not want to do it often. So I just tuck my phone away the next time I buy some fried chicken from the same store. So yummy

I will do the same if Apple pays me to get 10x Apple points. But where are those points? I won't do it at a paltry 2% cashback.