Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Credit, Debit and Prepaid Card Programs > Credit Card Programs
Reload this Page >

Apple and Goldman Sachs to partner on new credit card

Apple and Goldman Sachs to partner on new credit card

Old Mar 27, 19, 6:33 am
  #61  
Hyatt 10+ BadgeMarriott 5+ Badge
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: EWR/PHL/BWI
Posts: 3,727
Originally Posted by pdxer View Post
No it won't. That information is in the chip and mag stripe. There is no reason to have visible numbers on the card anymore.
It will for sure. The cashiers can't verify the physical card....
RedSun is offline  
Old Mar 27, 19, 6:37 am
  #62  
Hyatt 10+ BadgeMarriott 5+ Badge
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: EWR/PHL/BWI
Posts: 3,727
Originally Posted by fliesdelta View Post
I have never experienced that when paying with my phone, at either large or small stores, in the US or overseas.

The only place where I have to show any kind of ID card is at Costco (their membership card). BJ's (a membership warehouse) is fine with storing the bar code on the phone and scanning it from there.
It depends on what kind of activities you do. If you just fill your car gas tank, or buy $50 worth of grocery, no one cares. But you almost always get car'ed and ID'ed when you buy gift card. Some stores even check cards with GC just $100.
RedSun is offline  
Old Mar 27, 19, 6:41 am
  #63  
Hyatt 10+ BadgeMarriott 5+ Badge
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: EWR/PHL/BWI
Posts: 3,727
Originally Posted by tmiw View Post
Besides the people going into debt thing (which I'm not sure of the numbers), there's also the possibility that it might delay our going fully cashless. After all, a lot of stores absolutely hate the whole concept of interchange and have been doing various things to fight against the payment networks.
Exactly. American people are very conservative. They won't change the paying behavior and you'll have to force them to do so. We still use pound and inches where the inventor (British) has switched over years ago. The reasons??

I just do not see the NFC, contactless or phone become mainstream anytime soon. There is no need where you can just swipe your tiny plastic and be done with it. The stores do not like those IMO.
RedSun is offline  
Old Mar 27, 19, 8:37 am
  #64  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Programs: HHonors, TrueBlue, Delta SkyMiles, Hyatt Discoverist, Starwood Preferred Guest, American Airlines.
Posts: 2,035
Originally Posted by RedSun View Post
A lot the places where I can use the phone, the cashier asks me to show the real card! So what is the point of using the phone to pay?? This happens during Chase Freedom promotion in Shoprite. I was ID'ed each time I buy gift card > $100. They wanted to see both ID and real card. The same happened at some other places too.

Some of the store cashiers are afraid of the phones since they can't see the real cards and real names. Sometimes they even ask to check driver license.

This Apple card will cause even more problems since there is little info on the real card, no card number etc....
Ah, minimum wage employees at their best.
mikesyr18 is offline  
Old Mar 27, 19, 8:51 am
  #65  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Programs: HHonors, TrueBlue, Delta SkyMiles, Hyatt Discoverist, Starwood Preferred Guest, American Airlines.
Posts: 2,035
Originally Posted by mia View Post
That's the point ... their objective is to encourage more of those people to try it -and- discourage them from using a contactless card instead....
Apple has an uphill battle here. It's easier to teach people to use physical contactless cards rather than contactless from a phone... The phone adds various steps (setting up the card and then using it). Ultimately, banks can just disable Apple Pay capabilities from their cards entirely, and Apple will come out as the loser.

As a seasoned contactless user, I find contactless cards easier and more practical to use. I find a lot of cashiers don't even hit the "card" button on the register until I pull one out. I'll take whichever method makes the process more seamless (and Apple Pay wouldn't be as seamless of an experience as a physical contactless card is).
mikesyr18 is offline  
Old Mar 27, 19, 8:53 am
  #66  
Hyatt 10+ BadgeMarriott 5+ Badge
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: EWR/PHL/BWI
Posts: 3,727
Originally Posted by mikesyr18 View Post
Ah, minimum wage employees at their best.
You know how many American people live with minimum wages? Look at BA, Chase, Citi and Wells Fargo annual reports. They make tons of $$$ from credit card interest. It is 15% to 25%. Quite some people still pay that....
RedSun is offline  
Old Mar 27, 19, 10:40 am
  #67  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Gold
Posts: 14,585
Originally Posted by RedSun View Post
It depends on what kind of activities you do. If you just fill your car gas tank, or buy $50 worth of grocery, no one cares. But you almost always get car'ed and ID'ed when you buy gift card. Some stores even check cards with GC just $100.
Considering manufactured spend (which is legal) looks a lot like what's usually done to cash out stolen cards (definitely illegal), it's not surprising that stores want to clamp down on it. Of course, it stems from a misunderstanding of the payment network rules, which state that only chip cards that are swiped in a non-chip capable terminal push liability on the merchant.

Originally Posted by RedSun View Post
Exactly. American people are very conservative. They won't change the paying behavior and you'll have to force them to do so. We still use pound and inches where the inventor (British) has switched over years ago. The reasons??

I just do not see the NFC, contactless or phone become mainstream anytime soon. There is no need where you can just swipe your tiny plastic and be done with it. The stores do not like those IMO.
I don't think that has anything to do with stores disliking Visa/MC payments. Surcharges aren't unheard of in Australia, for instance, despite contactless being used more than in the US.

Originally Posted by mikesyr18 View Post
Apple has an uphill battle here. It's easier to teach people to use physical contactless cards rather than contactless from a phone... The phone adds various steps (setting up the card and then using it). Ultimately, banks can just disable Apple Pay capabilities from their cards entirely, and Apple will come out as the loser.

As a seasoned contactless user, I find contactless cards easier and more practical to use. I find a lot of cashiers don't even hit the "card" button on the register until I pull one out. I'll take whichever method makes the process more seamless (and Apple Pay wouldn't be as seamless of an experience as a physical contactless card is).
Actually, I find that stores have more of an issue with contactless cards than mobile wallets. A fair number of them won't push the button on their end until you insert a physical card, while they will if they see you trying to tap a phone on the terminal.
tmiw is offline  
Old Mar 27, 19, 10:42 am
  #68  
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 654
Originally Posted by mikesyr18 View Post
Apple has an uphill battle here. It's easier to teach people to use physical contactless cards rather than contactless from a phone... The phone adds various steps (setting up the card and then using it). Ultimately, banks can just disable Apple Pay capabilities from their cards entirely, and Apple will come out as the loser.

As a seasoned contactless user, I find contactless cards easier and more practical to use. I find a lot of cashiers don't even hit the "card" button on the register until I pull one out. I'll take whichever method makes the process more seamless (and Apple Pay wouldn't be as seamless of an experience as a physical contactless card is).
You need to keep in mind the initial target audience:

Tech savvy people who are signing up *because* it is being touted as a superior contactless option. Apple probably expects most people signing up to be in the 18-35 year old range. Iím sure Apple/GS is expecting this to be many peopleís first credit card.

Additionally, there are 1,000,000s of sub 18 year olds with iPhones who will likely sign up for this card the moment they turn 18. Think of the speed to market vs getting some junk mail addressed to an 18 year from Credit One Bank.

Do not be surprised that once this card is released more people are specifically asking to use Apple Pay. I know I ask *everywhere* I go if they accept Apple Pay because I want 4.5% cashback on my Altitude Reserve.
jags86 is online now  
Old Mar 27, 19, 10:50 am
  #69  
Hyatt 10+ BadgeMarriott 5+ Badge
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: EWR/PHL/BWI
Posts: 3,727
Originally Posted by tmiw View Post
Considering manufactured spend (which is legal) looks a lot like what's usually done to cash out stolen cards (definitely illegal), it's not surprising that stores want to clamp down on it. Of course, it stems from a misunderstanding of the payment network rules, which state that only chip cards that are swiped in a non-chip capable terminal push liability on the merchant.
Buying a $100 VGC has nothing to do with MS. It is very common during holiday time. It is a store policy to check ID and card for any GC >= $100.

There are still a lot of credit card frauds going on. I guess most are from the traditional CC frauds, but stores are very nervous about its payment system. I'm sure the NFC and contactless technology makes it safer, but the stores do not know that. They still prefer to check ID and the physical credit cards.

Also, the POS may not work properly, the phone may not get the mobile signal etc. The shoppers behind you would stare at you for holding the lines. I'll only use my phone if I get any benefits. Otherwise, most people still prefer the old light plastics....
RedSun is offline  
Old Mar 27, 19, 10:57 am
  #70  
Hyatt 10+ BadgeMarriott 5+ Badge
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: EWR/PHL/BWI
Posts: 3,727
Originally Posted by jags86 View Post
You need to keep in mind the initial target audience:

Tech savvy people who are signing up *because* it is being touted as a superior contactless option. Apple probably expects most people signing up to be in the 18-35 year old range. Iím sure Apple/GS is expecting this to be many peopleís first credit card.

Additionally, there are 1,000,000s of sub 18 year olds with iPhones who will likely sign up for this card the moment they turn 18. Think of the speed to market vs getting some junk mail addressed to an 18 year from Credit One Bank.

Do not be surprised that once this card is released more people are specifically asking to use Apple Pay. I know I ask *everywhere* I go if they accept Apple Pay because I want 4.5% cashback on my Altitude Reserve.
A lot of this is true. But how large is this market segment? Also remember the 18+ year old do not even make their own money yet, but living on parent's money. It has very limited buying power.

What I see is that this card would generate a lot of attention. A lot people would initially jump on the application and get a piece of the excitement. Then it will quickly cool off and die down. Apple is not in the business of Apple Bank. Not yet.

Think about the Apple Cash Pay. It generated a lot of excitement too. But most of the kids now use Venmo. Probably PayPal is more popular then Apple Cash Pay.
RedSun is offline  
Old Mar 27, 19, 11:09 am
  #71  
mia
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend, Moderator: American Express, Citi, Diners Club, Signatures
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; HH Gold
Posts: 41,718
Originally Posted by RedSun View Post
A lot the places where I can use the phone, the cashier asks me to show the real card! ;.
What happens if you tell the cashier that you do not have the card with you?
mia is offline  
Old Mar 27, 19, 12:11 pm
  #72  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Programs: HHonors, TrueBlue, Delta SkyMiles, Hyatt Discoverist, Starwood Preferred Guest, American Airlines.
Posts: 2,035
Originally Posted by jags86 View Post
You need to keep in mind the initial target audience:..
Tech savvy people who are signing up *because* it is being touted as a superior contactless option....
What makes this card a superior contactless option? It offers 2% back on Apple Pay purchases. I can get that with the Double Cash or a USAA Limitless, or any other 2% card out there.

Unfortunately the person standing behind the counter running the cashier (at least nine times out of ten) is not tech savvy, so contactless physical cards will prevail... Especially because consumers are so cautious about contactless in the first place.
mikesyr18 is offline  
Old Mar 27, 19, 12:14 pm
  #73  
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: RDU
Programs: DL(PM), UA(Silver), Marriott(Ti), HH(Gold), Hertz(PC)
Posts: 2,257
Originally Posted by RedSun View Post
the phone may not get the mobile signal
iPhones don't need a mobile signal or wifi to use Apple Pay.

I don't know if the same can be said of Android phones.
fliesdelta is offline  
Old Mar 27, 19, 12:58 pm
  #74  
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 654
Originally Posted by RedSun View Post
A lot of this is true. But how large is this market segment? Also remember the 18+ year old do not even make their own money yet, but living on parent's money. It has very limited buying power.

What I see is that this card would generate a lot of attention. A lot people would initially jump on the application and get a piece of the excitement. Then it will quickly cool off and die down. Apple is not in the business of Apple Bank. Not yet.

Think about the Apple Cash Pay. It generated a lot of excitement too. But most of the kids now use Venmo. Probably PayPal is more popular then Apple Cash Pay.
1) The market segment is in the millions in the United States alone.
2) This isn’t about getting people who spend $50k plus onto the Apple Card, it’s about generating further adoption of Apple Pay and locking you further into the Apple ecosystem.

My prediction will be there will be more people with Apple Card than people with AMEX Platinum Cards, Chase Sapphire Reserve Cards, or Citi Prestige Cards, combined, after one year. If you consider any of those successful for adoption, then this will be a smashing success. Consumers who get this card now actively think “let me see if I can use Apple Pay”. That makes it a winner in Apple’s book. From Goldman Sach’s perspective, it’s an easy way to dip your toes into the consumer credit market. You don’t think this will be the only card they ever offer, do you? If you eventually decide you need to have a different card than the Apple Card but still utilise Apple Pay, then Apple has won. If you decide not to switch to an android phone because that means you have to get a new credit card on top of it, Apple has won.

Last edited by jags86; Mar 27, 19 at 1:08 pm
jags86 is online now  
Old Mar 27, 19, 1:03 pm
  #75  
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 654
Originally Posted by mikesyr18 View Post
What makes this card a superior contactless option? It offers 2% back on Apple Pay purchases. I can get that with the Double Cash or a USAA Limitless, or any other 2% card out there.

Unfortunately the person standing behind the counter running the cashier (at least nine times out of ten) is not tech savvy, so contactless physical cards will prevail... Especially because consumers are so cautious about contactless in the first place.
From a rewards perspective, it of course isnít superior. But not everybody has rewards as the number 1 criteria when selecting their credit card. For many younger folks, a slick interface is the reason they choose a product. And from the little Iíve seen the Apple Card/Apple Wallet interface is slicker than any current product available. Additionally it is being marketed on its contactless abilities as opposed to it just being a back page feature with other cards.

We are jaded on this site. Most people do not have 10+ credit cards with annual fees, and juggle 5x categories. Most people who have credit cards have just one or two cards. Usually whatever their local bank gives them and perhaps an airline card that earn points they donít understand or a cash back card from a mega bank. I think this will be a smashing success in its target demographics. Flyer Talk is not the target demographics.
jags86 is online now  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search Engine: