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USA EMV cards: Availability, Q&A (Chip & PIN or Signature) [2017>]

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Old Jan 16, 2017, 10:23 am
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2012-2015 2016

What is EMV?
EMV is a standard for smart (or integrated-circuit, or chip) cards and the devices that can accept them. The standards are maintained by EMVCo and based on ISO 7816 (or ISO 14443 for contactless).

These cards come in two flavours: contact and contactless. Examples below:
----------------------------------------------------------

Notice the contactless indicator on the right-hand side (it looks like a sideways Wi-Fi symbol). It may also be found on the back of the card (for example, on the back of the new Costco credit card).


Where can I get a chip card?

Hawaiian717 operates a website with crowd-sourced information about various cards. You can adjust the search parameters to see cards with contactless, have PIN-primary authentication, etc.

Which businesses accept chip cards?

tmiw operates a website, also primarily crowd-sourced, that tracks chip-enabled merchants on a map. You can see if a merchant supports PIN, contactless, Quick Chip, et al.

Why doesn't my chip card ask for a PIN?

This is likely because you have a signature-preferring card. At this time, PIN-preferring cards issued in the US are rare. Not many financial institutions offer them; most of them instead provide Chip-and-Signature cards, which are programmed to prefer signature over PIN, if the card supports PIN at all.

What is the difference between Chip-and-Signature and Chip-and-PIN?

To the cardholder, the only major difference is how they authenticate themselves at the point of sale. The cardholder inserts their card as normal; instead of signing a screen or receipt, they will be asked to enter their PIN on the keypad.

[spoiler]

A few financial institutions issue some form of Chip-and-PIN credit cards or prepaid cards. Prepaid EMV cards however are not recommended due to junk fees.

Why no PIN? (cont.)
American debit cards are unique because they are psuedo-PIN-preferring cards. which may work at many automated kiosks. However, bear in mind the word may is used above is a context where there is no absolute certainty of success for certain environments such as automated kiosks due to different natures of offline and online transactions.

What is the difference between Chip-and-Signature and Chip-and-PIN? (cont.)

Most cards issued in the US are programmed to prefer signature, so save very few instances, they will prompt for a signature (unless the merchant sets a signature waiver). A PIN may be necessary in countries with mostly PIN-preferring cards when using unattended terminals (such as pay-at-the-pump or mass transit). If the card has a PIN for backup verification or ATMs, then that PIN should work. Otherwise, the card will be rejected. If the card is rejected, then either a.) the transaction must be performed by an attendant or b.) an alternative payment method will be required.

Some credit union issued credit cards will have this CVM (Cardholder Verification Method) as secondary if Chip-and-Signature cannot be done. Chip-and-PIN is the more prevalent method of authentication used outside the US, especially in transaction environments where no human interaction is needed (i.e. automated gas pumps, toll roads, train kiosks, etc.).

One chip can hold a lot more data, therefore it is capable of doing multiple verification methods. That's one of the great things about EMV over the mag-stripe which can hold very little data.

I want to know for sure what my EMV chip does. Is there anyway I can test out my own EMV card to see what the CVM list is?
alexmt has written up a nice step-by-step procedure on Post #3615.

If most of the EMV cards in the US is the Chip-and-Signature type, doesn't that mean it's still useless abroad?
Depends if you see it as glass half empty or glass half full. See Post #3 for further details on how Chip-and-Signature has worked both successfully and unsuccessfully depending on the merchant transaction environment and use your best judgment whether which one is right for you.


I don't want a chip in my card. I heard horror stories all over the media saying hackers can steal my credit card info from a mile away.


There are two types of chips. One is contactless and the other is contact. Cards can be either one or the other, or both.

In the Google Docs spreadsheet, the cards that are capable of contactless payments are listed seperately under the "RFID or NFC contactless chip" column. If it says yes, then that means it has the ability to do contactless payments. If it says no, it doesn't have that feature.

The one that the media has overhyped about hackers "stealing your information wirelessly" was the contactless type like this:

You are worried about this happening, right?

You don't have to worry. EMV is a chip standard that can have both contact and contactless interfaces. With the traditional contact interface, this means you actually have to physically insert the chip into a POS terminal for it to be authorized, like this:

With the contact interface, nothing is wireless. No data is sent out in a stand-alone contact type EMV chip. With the EMV contactless interface, data is sent wirelessly.

Furthermore, contactless chip cards are required to show a symbol (looks like Wi-Fi symbol) somewhere on the card that to denote its capability as a contactless card. For example, here's an example of a Discover Card with contactless capability (in which Discover calls "Discover ZIP") showing the contactless symbol on the back of the card:

Don't believe everything that the media says. Besides, millions of people all over the world from London to Singapore, uses contactless payments daily in extremely crowded subways and mass transit with nary any problems. There are multiple layers of encrypted securities and keys that are needed to break the code.

Frankly, giving your physical card to a waiter/waitress who takes the card out of your view is much more susceptible to fraud than contactless payments.

Why should I care?
If you are an international traveler, you will want this because majority of the world has or in the process of converting to this payment format.

In fact, in 2012, even North Korea moved to the EMV format, leaving the US as one of the countries in the world that hasn't done so.

In addition, VISA, MC, AMEX, and Discover have all agreed to incentivize the USA shifting to EMV payments by 2015 by shifting liability for fraudulent transactions to merchants if they do not have EMV equipment and the cardholder has an EMV card. So if you travel internationally or would like to get one before the others, you might be interested in getting one.


BS! I had no problems using my card in [insert whereever country], [insert whatever point in time]
If you stick to the tourist path where they have lots of visitors from the US, you should have no problems using your mag-stripe only card in hotels and restaurants, at least for now. But as things can change as things go forward.

However, consider that once you start taking the off-beaten path, go to non-touristy places where they are not familiar with mag-stripes, rent a car and use toll roads, fill up gas, or try to buy train tickets you might end up into a trouble of the machine not recognizing your card because it lacks the chip. Furthermore, a lot of toll roads, gas pumps, and automated ticket machines lack any human assistance to help you when you need it the most.

But [insert credit card company] told me all merchants that display their logo must accept them! All I have to do is report them for violating their agreements, right?
There are several factors against this.

1. You can only speak English. The merchant representative, most likely a part-time clerk earning minimum wage, speaks in a different language, let's say French. If you have no French language skills, how are you going to get your point across? Are you going to whip out your cell phone at exorbitant int'l roaming charges and hope the customer service is going to translate it for you on the spot? Or maybe you might actually know French. But how about Swahili, Farsi, Balinese, or the multiple languages in mainland China?

2. Just like US, the rest of the world's businesses uses part-time minimum wage workers as cashiers to cut down on labor costs. Most of their SOP training manuals are written by MBA types to not to do anything they are not familiar with. Do not expect them to understand the intricate details of credit card mumbo jumbo. You don't expect Taco Bell employees to understand the minute details of Discover-JCB-Union Pay agreements, right? Same thing the other way around: be respectful as a guest in their country, prepare in advance in their ways, avoid being an "ugly American" stereotype.

3. You are a guest in their country. You are a minority. If 99.9% of their country's people and other tourists from around the world uses EMV, do you really think they are going to accomodate the 0.1% of American tourists who only have mag-stripes credit cards?

4. Again, you are a guest in their country. How would you, as an American standing in line, react if a Chinese tourist was clogging up the lines at a local Taco Bell because the clerk doesn't understand the Discover-Union Pay agreement and has trouble communicating between Mandarin spoken by the tourist and English spoken by the Taco Bell clerk? Same way the other way around. You do not want to clog up the lines for everyone. The less hassle, the better.

5. VISA and MC make tons of money from merchants in that country. Say SNCF French Rail. It's a billion dollar company in France. Do you think VISA is going to pull the plug of their relationship with SNCF because SNCF refuses to do mag-stripe processing at their unmanned train station kiosk? Of course not. Be realistic.

6. And lastly, if you're up against an unstaffed toll kiosk, gas pump or train ticket machine, are you going to yell curses at the machine?

But I want my credit card to be able to be used in the US too!
No worries. They have not gotten rid of the mag-stripe on the back of the card for backward compatibility reasons, just like we still have embossed numbers on our cards for backwards compatibility to using those old carbon copy imprinters.

[insert own Hyatt card image front and back together with red arrows pointing to all the backward compatibility features]

You use the chip on the front of the card abroad (for now), and the mag-stripe just like any other card for the US. Basically, you're increasing your credit card's acceptance rate by getting a card that both via the chip and the mag-stripe. You're getting a better deal for free.

And when 2015 comes along and US switches to EMV, you'll be way ahead of everyone else too!


So why did the rest of the world and the US moved/moving toward EMV?
Primarily, due to fraud concerns. You see, the mag-stripe has been with us since the 1950s. It may have been the most high tech thing back in the day, but with the technology that is available today, any shmo can pick up a $100 USB magnetic card skimming device off of eBay and get your credit card info.

And unlike skimming off contactless cards which actually need the person to have l33t programming skills, skimming off a magnetic stripe has become so ubiquitous that nary a day goes about skimming fraud going on somewhere in America, from gas pumps, Michael's stores (2011), Target breaches (2013), restaurant waiters/waitresses, to even McDonald's drive thrus.

https://www.google.com/search?q=skimming+fraud

These type of fraud used to be prevalent in Europe. But once they started switching over to EMV starting over 2 decades ago, this type of fraud went elsewhere. It went over to Asia, Canada and Mexico, Latin America, etc. etc. until they too began implementing EMV to combat skimming fraud. The US is practically the only country left that hasn't done so, therefore all the fraud that used to take place elsewhere is now happening here.


But EMV is old and it's not fool proof. Shouldn't we just skip over it and do something new instead?
Yes, EMV is old. It was developed in the 1990s, and its smart card payment predecessor was first introduced in France. But as of today, it has become the de-facto global standard of payments.

But then, what else is there? There is no other de facto global standard of payments alternative. For example, if we decide to skip over it and do something new, hypothetically like DNA matching technology, it still means US int'l travelers will continue to have problems abroad with useless plastic acceptance because no other country is using this DNA matching technology except the US.

Besides, nothing is fool proof. You can say that the bank vault isn't fool proof because you can crack it open if enough C4 is used. But your average low-life scumbag isn't likely to get military grade C4 easily either. But the bank vault does make it harder to get the bank's money over say a petty cash box. That's the point here. EMV is akin to a security tight bank vault, the old mag-stripe is akin to a petty cash box lying around inside the drawer.


I'm a business owner and I don't think EMV is going to take off. I'm not going to spend extra hundreds of dollars to upgrade my credit card machine. Convince me other wise why I should.
I can understand the added extra cost to your business once this switchover takes place. But before even saying that, look at your existing POS terminal. Does it have a slot somewhere to insert a card?

Most likely, if you had replaced your POS terminal within the past five years, you already have an EMV capable terminal. EMV is basically just not turned on yet from the processor and acquirer side.

If you have an EMV capable terminal, then a best bet would be to contact your acquirer to have the EMV feature turned on. You did your end of the deal already by having an EMV capable terminal, it is now the acquirers' responsibility to turn it on in accordance to the EMV switchover mandate.

And if you don't, you are going to replace your POS terminal anyway from common wear and tear. It isn't a hard switch-over. You can continue to use your POS terminal until it dies out because EMV cardholders will still have the mag-stripe on the back. And by the time your non-EMV capable POS terminal is up for replacement the market will be full with these newer POS terminals that can accept the mag-stripe, EMV, as well as contactless payments.

In addition, you may also want to check with your acquirer or processor about EMV capable terminals. Some of them are willing to replace your terminal for free in preparation for the US EMV switchover. Call and ask for details.


But what's in it for me? I'm the one that has to pay for the upgrade.
All the major card networks have given incentives for merchants for the upcoming EMV switchover.

If 75% or more of your credit card transactions are done on an EMV contact and contactless terminal, they are going to waive your annual PCI-DSS fees, which usually costs you around $5.00-$19.95/month per terminal. The overall long term cost savings of those compliance fees will be larger than the cost of an one time upgrade for the terminal.

The downside is that once EMV switchover happens and if you do not have a POS terminal that is able to accept EMV, the fraud liability shifts over to the merchant.
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USA EMV cards: Availability, Q&A (Chip & PIN or Signature) [2017>]

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Old Oct 27, 2018, 1:18 pm
  #4621  
 
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Originally Posted by JEFFJAGUAR
Noted and logged. But then again, at least from my experiences, thd Netherlands has always been a problem for using credit cards, especially foreign ones and that goes back a long way. The Dutch National Railways has also always been a problem in using their kiosks for buying rail tickets although the Amsterdam Centraal Station has always had 1 window where cre foreign credit cards were honored.

But I am sure some people have complained and it is more on mc/visa for having allowed this to continue. And I think you would agree; it would not be economical for the US banks to embrace chip and pin with all its added costs, at least to their eyes, just so a few tourists could use their cards on the Amsterdam public transport system. Now if you couldn't use your chip and signature cards in the Paris Metro, that might be a different story, eh.
Agreed the Netherlands has been rather slow in accepting credit cards as a form of payments, which stems largely from the relatively early uptake of the equivalent of debit cards and a general aversion for debt in the Netherlands (primarily non collateralised). However, the last few years have seen a steady increase in merchants that accept credit cards (although AMEX is still hardly accepted anywhere and the main grocery store chain still hates credit cards of any sort). But nowadays even the railways at all terminals allow payment with credit cards.

However, the big caveat if that merchants in the Netherlands universally have pin-preferring payment methods, so even paying with a newer US credit card equipped with chip technology still prompts lots of rejections or requirements for signatures (leaving merchants scrambling to find a pen). That precludes paying at non-staffed points of sale entirely, at noted here multiple times. Some merchants even refuse to accept signature-preferring cards due to fears of fraud.

I have credit cards from both the Netherlands and the US. Recently I was traveling with family in the Caribbean, where about half the time I ended up paying when my American family members' credit cards were invariably declined due to lack of PIN (even on the non-French islands frequented by US cruise ships). I can basically only use my US credit cards online in the Netherlands and Europe. It is the one thing keeping me from springing for either the Chase Sapphire Reserved or AMEX Platinum; as I am abroad most of my time, it would be shame if such expensive cards are essentially dormant in my wallet.

My question is, after having read the Wiki and perused some the responses here, why do US credit card companies and banks still even accept signatures? Why not simply switch over to PIN-preferring cards, ditch signatures altogether and be done with it? The issue is not just about making life easy for American tourists on Dutch trains or the Parisian metro; it is simply much safer and less sensitive to fraud compared to antiquated magnetic strips and easily copied signatures. I refuse to sign any of my credit cards, yet even when the merchant checks the empty signature box the transaction is magically approved. When I "sign" the receipts I just draw a straight horizontal line. Once I literally wrote "I'm drunk" in capital letters. How exactly does that make payments safe??? A PIN-code, on the other hand, cannot be faked. And has the added benefit of preventing payment should one forget the code after too much drinking, or one's motor skills are impaired.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/08/b...ignatures.html
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Old Oct 27, 2018, 1:43 pm
  #4622  
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Originally Posted by SchmeckFlyer
I have credit cards from both the Netherlands and the US. Recently I was traveling with family in the Caribbean, where about half the time I ended up paying when my American family members' credit cards were invariably declined due to lack of PIN (even on the non-French islands frequented by US cruise ships). I can basically only use my US credit cards online in the Netherlands and Europe. It is the one thing keeping me from springing for either the Chase Sapphire Reserved or AMEX Platinum; as I am abroad most of my time, it would be shame if such expensive cards are essentially dormant in my wallet.
There's not enough info here to conclude that lack of PIN is why the American cards didn't work. Is it possible that they didn't contact their banks before leaving? (Theoretically it's not necessary anymore at some, but still.) Some other factors with the specific transactions that caused the anti-fraud systems to trip? Were the terminals offline and unable to go online?

As for my recent personal experience, chip and signature worked fine in the UK and Mexico (but I used contactless way more in the former).
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Old Oct 27, 2018, 3:15 pm
  #4623  
 
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Originally Posted by tmiw
There's not enough info here to conclude that lack of PIN is why the American cards didn't work. Is it possible that they didn't contact their banks before leaving? (Theoretically it's not necessary anymore at some, but still.) Some other factors with the specific transactions that caused the anti-fraud systems to trip? Were the terminals offline and unable to go online?

As for my recent personal experience, chip and signature worked fine in the UK and Mexico (but I used contactless way more in the former).
In several instances the merchant specifically stated no credit card without PIN, after which my credit card with PIN worked fine. It happened more often on Martinique and Guadeloupe, but also a few times on Dominica and Antigua (albeit less often). The terminals were always working fine, as eventually someone was always able to pay.
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Old Oct 27, 2018, 4:17 pm
  #4624  
 
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Originally Posted by tmiw
There's not enough info here to conclude that lack of PIN is why the American cards didn't work. Is it possible that they didn't contact their banks before leaving? (Theoretically it's not necessary anymore at some, but still.) Some other factors with the specific transactions that caused the anti-fraud systems to trip? Were the terminals offline and unable to go online?

As for my recent personal experience, chip and signature worked fine in the UK and Mexico (but I used contactless way more in the former).
I've never had any issues with merchants refusing cards outside of the US for in person transactions. We've all heard of the one off stories of someone getting a rejection for a non-chip-and-PIN transaction, but the only cases where I've had issues have been at unmanned kiosks. For those, I carry a Barclays card. Furthermore, more and more places are comfortable accepting mobile payments even where the Pays aren't native. It's great to avoid having to sign a receipt when the physical card would be chip-and-signature. In some places you practically have to bring your own pen these days.
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Old Oct 27, 2018, 4:22 pm
  #4625  
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Originally Posted by SchmeckFlyer
In several instances the merchant specifically stated no credit card without PIN, after which my credit card with PIN worked fine. It happened more often on Martinique and Guadeloupe, but also a few times on Dominica and Antigua (albeit less often). The terminals were always working fine, as eventually someone was always able to pay.
That easily could have been the terminals not being online though. (US cards are generally online only with a few exceptions, while offline authorization support is more common on cards from Europe.) Since cards from Europe are also PIN preferring, the employees could have concluded that it was the PIN that mattered and not that the terminal can't go online.

On the other hand, if transactions are getting approved but subsequently voided due to signature slips printing out, that's something the card networks should be told about as that is against their rules.
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Old Oct 27, 2018, 4:24 pm
  #4626  
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Originally Posted by Majuki
I've never had any issues with merchants refusing cards outside of the US for in person transactions. We've all heard of the one off stories of someone getting a rejection for a non-chip-and-PIN transaction, but the only cases where I've had issues have been at unmanned kiosks. For those, I carry a Barclays card. Furthermore, more and more places are comfortable accepting mobile payments even where the Pays aren't native. It's great to avoid having to sign a receipt when the physical card would be chip-and-signature. In some places you practically have to bring your own pen these days.
Yep, the card networks have not kept their desire of contactless being "the future" a secret. As mentioned many times before, I doubt there will be any widespread move to PIN preference in the US; there will be huge rewards and bonuses given out to encourage contactless/mobile wallet use way before that happens.
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Old Oct 27, 2018, 4:36 pm
  #4627  
 
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Originally Posted by tmiw
Yep, the card networks have not kept their desire of contactless being "the future" a secret. As mentioned many times before, I doubt there will be any widespread move to PIN preference in the US; there will be huge rewards and bonuses given out to encourage contactless/mobile wallet use way before that happens.
I do think things will go the way of contactless/mobile wallets in the future. A few years ago I was thinking we might see chip-and-PIN, but this was before the Pays and elimination of signature requirements. I think more and more merchants will turn off signature collection, reserving them for a few transactions such as at restaurants where there is tip adjust. (I still have a disdain for tip adjust and wish the networks would do more to discourage its use if not outright prohibit it.)
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Old Oct 27, 2018, 6:29 pm
  #4628  
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Originally Posted by Majuki
I do think things will go the way of contactless/mobile wallets in the future. A few years ago I was thinking we might see chip-and-PIN, but this was before the Pays and elimination of signature requirements. I think more and more merchants will turn off signature collection, reserving them for a few transactions such as at restaurants where there is tip adjust. (I still have a disdain for tip adjust and wish the networks would do more to discourage its use if not outright prohibit it.)
My understanding of the rules is that it's possible to have tip adjust on transactions without a signature. Whether restaurants will ever be comfortable with that is another question.

As for PIN, there is a chance if contactless somehow flops again. Remember, Mexico (where contactless isn't really a thing) originally started with chip and signature and is slowly transitioning to PIN. That may not be the only condition needed however.
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Old Oct 27, 2018, 10:30 pm
  #4629  
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What's that NCR POS with the slot on the side again? Had to use one of those today and based on the owner's experience trying to ring me up, those seem pretty horrible to me.

On the other hand, he's going to work on getting contactless enabled on it. ^

(BTW the receipt I signed said "swiped" even though I inserted.)
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Old Oct 28, 2018, 1:45 am
  #4630  
 
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Originally Posted by quantumslip
FWIW I got the new First Tech FCU card. Cardpeek still shows the same PIN priority as the old design (online PIN, offline PIN, signature). Numbers are printed on the back now. Hopefully this card is a bit more durable since my old one was falling apart.


The first time I used it I got a last pin try message on the terminal. I entered my pin and have used the card fine with pin prompts since (in the USA).
Do I need a membership in FTFCU to apply for this card? If yes, do I need to open a checking or savings account as well?

Is there any bank issued (not credit union) full (online, offline, pin priority) chip-and-pin card in available the USA?

Thanks.
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Old Oct 28, 2018, 8:12 am
  #4631  
 
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On my recent trip to Romania I noticed that the customer-facing pin pads don't have slots anymore. I had to hand my card over to the cashier so they'd insert it and then I'd enter the PIN. Of course that's because everybody has switched to contactless, so once again I feel "behind the times".
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Old Oct 28, 2018, 7:22 pm
  #4632  
 
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Originally Posted by dmapr
On my recent trip to Romania I noticed that the customer-facing pin pads don't have slots anymore. I had to hand my card over to the cashier so they'd insert it and then I'd enter the PIN. Of course that's because everybody has switched to contactless, so once again I feel "behind the times".
What brand were the terminals? I know Ingenico makes one where it’s just a PIN pad and has Contactless but no chip or swipe slots. Verifone has the PinPad 1000SE with Contactless as well.


also use Apple Pay and feel “ahead” rather than behind lol
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Old Oct 29, 2018, 7:16 am
  #4633  
 
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Originally Posted by RedLight2015

What brand were the terminals? I know Ingenico makes one where it’s just a PIN pad and has Contactless but no chip or swipe slots. Verifone has the PinPad 1000SE with Contactless as well.


also use Apple Pay and feel “ahead” rather than behind lol
Unfortunately I didn't see the branding Don't know about Apple Pay, but Google Pay said it was not available in Romania when I tried :/
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Old Oct 29, 2018, 8:02 am
  #4634  
 
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Originally Posted by dmapr
Unfortunately I didn't see the branding Don't know about Apple Pay, but Google Pay said it was not available in Romania when I tried :/
No branding needed. Contactless is all the branding you need for Apple Pay to work.
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Old Oct 29, 2018, 11:33 am
  #4635  
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Originally Posted by RedLight2015
also use Apple Pay and feel “ahead” rather than behind lol
I feel like that's really just catching up considering that banks elsewhere have (had?) their own NFC apps for a bit. But yeah, NFC is likely your best bet.
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