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USA EMV cards: Availability, Q&A (Chip & PIN or Signature) [2017>]

Old Jan 16, 2017, 10:23 am
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What is EMV?
EMV is a standard for smart (or integrated-circuit, or chip) cards and the devices that can accept them. The standards are maintained by EMVCo and based on ISO 7816 (or ISO 14443 for contactless).

These cards come in two flavours: contact and contactless. Examples below:
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Notice the contactless indicator on the right-hand side (it looks like a sideways Wi-Fi symbol). It may also be found on the back of the card (for example, on the back of the new Costco credit card).


Where can I get a chip card?

Hawaiian717 operates a website with crowd-sourced information about various cards. You can adjust the search parameters to see cards with contactless, have PIN-primary authentication, etc.

Which businesses accept chip cards?

tmiw operates a website, also primarily crowd-sourced, that tracks chip-enabled merchants on a map. You can see if a merchant supports PIN, contactless, Quick Chip, et al.

Why doesn't my chip card ask for a PIN?

This is likely because you have a signature-preferring card. At this time, PIN-preferring cards issued in the US are rare. Not many financial institutions offer them; most of them instead provide Chip-and-Signature cards, which are programmed to prefer signature over PIN, if the card supports PIN at all.

What is the difference between Chip-and-Signature and Chip-and-PIN?

To the cardholder, the only major difference is how they authenticate themselves at the point of sale. The cardholder inserts their card as normal; instead of signing a screen or receipt, they will be asked to enter their PIN on the keypad.

[spoiler]

A few financial institutions issue some form of Chip-and-PIN credit cards or prepaid cards. Prepaid EMV cards however are not recommended due to junk fees.

Why no PIN? (cont.)
American debit cards are unique because they are psuedo-PIN-preferring cards. which may work at many automated kiosks. However, bear in mind the word may is used above is a context where there is no absolute certainty of success for certain environments such as automated kiosks due to different natures of offline and online transactions.

What is the difference between Chip-and-Signature and Chip-and-PIN? (cont.)

Most cards issued in the US are programmed to prefer signature, so save very few instances, they will prompt for a signature (unless the merchant sets a signature waiver). A PIN may be necessary in countries with mostly PIN-preferring cards when using unattended terminals (such as pay-at-the-pump or mass transit). If the card has a PIN for backup verification or ATMs, then that PIN should work. Otherwise, the card will be rejected. If the card is rejected, then either a.) the transaction must be performed by an attendant or b.) an alternative payment method will be required.

Some credit union issued credit cards will have this CVM (Cardholder Verification Method) as secondary if Chip-and-Signature cannot be done. Chip-and-PIN is the more prevalent method of authentication used outside the US, especially in transaction environments where no human interaction is needed (i.e. automated gas pumps, toll roads, train kiosks, etc.).

One chip can hold a lot more data, therefore it is capable of doing multiple verification methods. That's one of the great things about EMV over the mag-stripe which can hold very little data.

I want to know for sure what my EMV chip does. Is there anyway I can test out my own EMV card to see what the CVM list is?
alexmt has written up a nice step-by-step procedure on Post #3615.

If most of the EMV cards in the US is the Chip-and-Signature type, doesn't that mean it's still useless abroad?
Depends if you see it as glass half empty or glass half full. See Post #3 for further details on how Chip-and-Signature has worked both successfully and unsuccessfully depending on the merchant transaction environment and use your best judgment whether which one is right for you.


I don't want a chip in my card. I heard horror stories all over the media saying hackers can steal my credit card info from a mile away.


There are two types of chips. One is contactless and the other is contact. Cards can be either one or the other, or both.

In the Google Docs spreadsheet, the cards that are capable of contactless payments are listed seperately under the "RFID or NFC contactless chip" column. If it says yes, then that means it has the ability to do contactless payments. If it says no, it doesn't have that feature.

The one that the media has overhyped about hackers "stealing your information wirelessly" was the contactless type like this:

You are worried about this happening, right?

You don't have to worry. EMV is a chip standard that can have both contact and contactless interfaces. With the traditional contact interface, this means you actually have to physically insert the chip into a POS terminal for it to be authorized, like this:

With the contact interface, nothing is wireless. No data is sent out in a stand-alone contact type EMV chip. With the EMV contactless interface, data is sent wirelessly.

Furthermore, contactless chip cards are required to show a symbol (looks like Wi-Fi symbol) somewhere on the card that to denote its capability as a contactless card. For example, here's an example of a Discover Card with contactless capability (in which Discover calls "Discover ZIP") showing the contactless symbol on the back of the card:

Don't believe everything that the media says. Besides, millions of people all over the world from London to Singapore, uses contactless payments daily in extremely crowded subways and mass transit with nary any problems. There are multiple layers of encrypted securities and keys that are needed to break the code.

Frankly, giving your physical card to a waiter/waitress who takes the card out of your view is much more susceptible to fraud than contactless payments.

Why should I care?
If you are an international traveler, you will want this because majority of the world has or in the process of converting to this payment format.

In fact, in 2012, even North Korea moved to the EMV format, leaving the US as one of the countries in the world that hasn't done so.

In addition, VISA, MC, AMEX, and Discover have all agreed to incentivize the USA shifting to EMV payments by 2015 by shifting liability for fraudulent transactions to merchants if they do not have EMV equipment and the cardholder has an EMV card. So if you travel internationally or would like to get one before the others, you might be interested in getting one.


BS! I had no problems using my card in [insert whereever country], [insert whatever point in time]
If you stick to the tourist path where they have lots of visitors from the US, you should have no problems using your mag-stripe only card in hotels and restaurants, at least for now. But as things can change as things go forward.

However, consider that once you start taking the off-beaten path, go to non-touristy places where they are not familiar with mag-stripes, rent a car and use toll roads, fill up gas, or try to buy train tickets you might end up into a trouble of the machine not recognizing your card because it lacks the chip. Furthermore, a lot of toll roads, gas pumps, and automated ticket machines lack any human assistance to help you when you need it the most.

But [insert credit card company] told me all merchants that display their logo must accept them! All I have to do is report them for violating their agreements, right?
There are several factors against this.

1. You can only speak English. The merchant representative, most likely a part-time clerk earning minimum wage, speaks in a different language, let's say French. If you have no French language skills, how are you going to get your point across? Are you going to whip out your cell phone at exorbitant int'l roaming charges and hope the customer service is going to translate it for you on the spot? Or maybe you might actually know French. But how about Swahili, Farsi, Balinese, or the multiple languages in mainland China?

2. Just like US, the rest of the world's businesses uses part-time minimum wage workers as cashiers to cut down on labor costs. Most of their SOP training manuals are written by MBA types to not to do anything they are not familiar with. Do not expect them to understand the intricate details of credit card mumbo jumbo. You don't expect Taco Bell employees to understand the minute details of Discover-JCB-Union Pay agreements, right? Same thing the other way around: be respectful as a guest in their country, prepare in advance in their ways, avoid being an "ugly American" stereotype.

3. You are a guest in their country. You are a minority. If 99.9% of their country's people and other tourists from around the world uses EMV, do you really think they are going to accomodate the 0.1% of American tourists who only have mag-stripes credit cards?

4. Again, you are a guest in their country. How would you, as an American standing in line, react if a Chinese tourist was clogging up the lines at a local Taco Bell because the clerk doesn't understand the Discover-Union Pay agreement and has trouble communicating between Mandarin spoken by the tourist and English spoken by the Taco Bell clerk? Same way the other way around. You do not want to clog up the lines for everyone. The less hassle, the better.

5. VISA and MC make tons of money from merchants in that country. Say SNCF French Rail. It's a billion dollar company in France. Do you think VISA is going to pull the plug of their relationship with SNCF because SNCF refuses to do mag-stripe processing at their unmanned train station kiosk? Of course not. Be realistic.

6. And lastly, if you're up against an unstaffed toll kiosk, gas pump or train ticket machine, are you going to yell curses at the machine?

But I want my credit card to be able to be used in the US too!
No worries. They have not gotten rid of the mag-stripe on the back of the card for backward compatibility reasons, just like we still have embossed numbers on our cards for backwards compatibility to using those old carbon copy imprinters.

[insert own Hyatt card image front and back together with red arrows pointing to all the backward compatibility features]

You use the chip on the front of the card abroad (for now), and the mag-stripe just like any other card for the US. Basically, you're increasing your credit card's acceptance rate by getting a card that both via the chip and the mag-stripe. You're getting a better deal for free.

And when 2015 comes along and US switches to EMV, you'll be way ahead of everyone else too!


So why did the rest of the world and the US moved/moving toward EMV?
Primarily, due to fraud concerns. You see, the mag-stripe has been with us since the 1950s. It may have been the most high tech thing back in the day, but with the technology that is available today, any shmo can pick up a $100 USB magnetic card skimming device off of eBay and get your credit card info.

And unlike skimming off contactless cards which actually need the person to have l33t programming skills, skimming off a magnetic stripe has become so ubiquitous that nary a day goes about skimming fraud going on somewhere in America, from gas pumps, Michael's stores (2011), Target breaches (2013), restaurant waiters/waitresses, to even McDonald's drive thrus.

https://www.google.com/search?q=skimming+fraud

These type of fraud used to be prevalent in Europe. But once they started switching over to EMV starting over 2 decades ago, this type of fraud went elsewhere. It went over to Asia, Canada and Mexico, Latin America, etc. etc. until they too began implementing EMV to combat skimming fraud. The US is practically the only country left that hasn't done so, therefore all the fraud that used to take place elsewhere is now happening here.


But EMV is old and it's not fool proof. Shouldn't we just skip over it and do something new instead?
Yes, EMV is old. It was developed in the 1990s, and its smart card payment predecessor was first introduced in France. But as of today, it has become the de-facto global standard of payments.

But then, what else is there? There is no other de facto global standard of payments alternative. For example, if we decide to skip over it and do something new, hypothetically like DNA matching technology, it still means US int'l travelers will continue to have problems abroad with useless plastic acceptance because no other country is using this DNA matching technology except the US.

Besides, nothing is fool proof. You can say that the bank vault isn't fool proof because you can crack it open if enough C4 is used. But your average low-life scumbag isn't likely to get military grade C4 easily either. But the bank vault does make it harder to get the bank's money over say a petty cash box. That's the point here. EMV is akin to a security tight bank vault, the old mag-stripe is akin to a petty cash box lying around inside the drawer.


I'm a business owner and I don't think EMV is going to take off. I'm not going to spend extra hundreds of dollars to upgrade my credit card machine. Convince me other wise why I should.
I can understand the added extra cost to your business once this switchover takes place. But before even saying that, look at your existing POS terminal. Does it have a slot somewhere to insert a card?

Most likely, if you had replaced your POS terminal within the past five years, you already have an EMV capable terminal. EMV is basically just not turned on yet from the processor and acquirer side.

If you have an EMV capable terminal, then a best bet would be to contact your acquirer to have the EMV feature turned on. You did your end of the deal already by having an EMV capable terminal, it is now the acquirers' responsibility to turn it on in accordance to the EMV switchover mandate.

And if you don't, you are going to replace your POS terminal anyway from common wear and tear. It isn't a hard switch-over. You can continue to use your POS terminal until it dies out because EMV cardholders will still have the mag-stripe on the back. And by the time your non-EMV capable POS terminal is up for replacement the market will be full with these newer POS terminals that can accept the mag-stripe, EMV, as well as contactless payments.

In addition, you may also want to check with your acquirer or processor about EMV capable terminals. Some of them are willing to replace your terminal for free in preparation for the US EMV switchover. Call and ask for details.


But what's in it for me? I'm the one that has to pay for the upgrade.
All the major card networks have given incentives for merchants for the upcoming EMV switchover.

If 75% or more of your credit card transactions are done on an EMV contact and contactless terminal, they are going to waive your annual PCI-DSS fees, which usually costs you around $5.00-$19.95/month per terminal. The overall long term cost savings of those compliance fees will be larger than the cost of an one time upgrade for the terminal.

The downside is that once EMV switchover happens and if you do not have a POS terminal that is able to accept EMV, the fraud liability shifts over to the merchant.
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USA EMV cards: Availability, Q&A (Chip & PIN or Signature) [2017>]

Old Feb 20, 2018, 1:35 pm
  #3766  
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Speaking of paying inside, any thoughts on how many gas stations will disable pay at the pump come 2020?

Originally Posted by mikesyr18
Not really, because where you live isn't a reflection of the whole country. The vast majority of gas stations near me don't have EMV readers on the pumps.
If you know what to look for, you'll realize how many actually have the correct card readers (hint: look for the ones that let you insert cards in either direction). Sure, not all of them will have the readers by 2020, but I think the major chains will.
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Old Feb 20, 2018, 1:35 pm
  #3767  
 
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Originally Posted by Hawaiian717
The problem is you want to force your preferences on everyone by either banning or making things more hassle for other people if they have different preferences. You want contactless-only pumps and anyone who doesn't have or want to use contactless will be forced to go inside. Not only is it more hassle for them, but it slows down everyone else if there's a line since their car is sitting at a pump while the person goes inside and possibly waiting in line there too. What would be better is contactless along with a chip/swipe reader, so that people who don't have or don't want to use contactless can still pay at the pump. Sure, there's more risk of skimming, but that's part of the tradeoff they make when they chose to use chip or swipe instead of contactless.
Everything regarding progress in this country is more of a hassle at first.... Even chip was.

People don't understand the security risks between contactless and physical chip/magnetic stripe.

The contactless transition shouldn't be that big of an issue. I'm not the problem in this situation, the average American is, and this wouldn't be a problem in most countries. Banks could easily send cards out, and there are these things called Android, Samsung, and Apple Pay which 90% > of people have these phones.

Forced change is the only way to adopt contactless. Maybe if Americans were forced to change more with technology, we wouldn't be a decade behind everyone else. American's are like the person afraid to bungee jump while everyone else already has.

Last edited by mikesyr18; Feb 20, 2018 at 1:42 pm
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Old Feb 20, 2018, 1:42 pm
  #3768  
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Originally Posted by mikesyr18
Everything regarding progress in this country is more of a hassle at first.... Even chip was.

People don't understand the security risks between contactless and physical chip/magnetic stripe.
You do realize that even countries that have near ubiquitous contactless adoption haven't gone to the extent that you're suggesting, right? For instance, cash back will probably always require swipe/insert with a physical card--not to mention that countries with contactless limits won't be able to lift those for anything other than mobile devices until online PIN's supported.

The better route if you want adoption is going to be to make it worthwhile for customers. Stuff like extra rewards if you tap with a phone or pay in-app/on a website (which apparently is successful/being gamed enough that Samsung is cutting back on their rewards program).
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Old Feb 20, 2018, 1:46 pm
  #3769  
 
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Originally Posted by tmiw
You do realize that even countries that have near ubiquitous contactless adoption haven't gone to the extent that you're suggesting, right? For instance, cash back will probably always require swipe/insert with a physical card--not to mention that countries with contactless limits won't be able to lift those for anything other than mobile devices until online PIN's supported.

The better route if you want adoption is going to be to make it worthwhile for customers. Stuff like extra rewards if you tap with a phone or pay in-app/on a website (which apparently is successful/being gamed enough that Samsung is cutting back on their rewards program).
Yes, but that is the point. We'll actually be ahead for a change. We shouldn't always lag behind everyone else.

Cash back? Not needed at the pump, which is the only place I'm talking about. Why does cash back require a physical card? ATM's at BoA and Wells Fargo have NFC capable transactions.

Wouldn't this solution also be cheaper for gas stations?
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Old Feb 20, 2018, 1:53 pm
  #3770  
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Originally Posted by mikesyr18
Yes, but that is the point. We'll actually be ahead for a change. We shouldn't always lag behind everyone else.

Cash back? Not needed at the pump, which is the only place I'm talking about. Why does cash back require a physical card? ATM's at BoA and Wells Fargo have NFC capable transactions.
Cash back at a store. If/when EMV contactless becomes more common, those credit/debit prompts will possibly go away as stores will just run every contactless transaction as "credit". (Otherwise, people will have to enter PINs for mobile wallet purchases as well as using whatever biometric authentication's required, which is a UX nightmare IMO.)

Also, you're assuming that the rest of the world will move on to something else by the time we adopt contactless. While that may be true, it's also possible that contactless payment ends up being the "standard" for quite a long time. Or even that the "something else" is something we're already doing, namely switching away from in-person shopping to online shopping.
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Old Feb 20, 2018, 1:57 pm
  #3771  
 
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Right. They should run everything as a credit transaction. I do think that's a good point.

I was speaking about contactless only being at the pump, which could just have credit as the primary method of payment.

For mobile wallets, why can't the terminal sense that a fingerprint/PIN was used with the phone before the transaction was made? At that point, one could just press credit or debit without the need for a PIN on the PIN pad.
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Old Feb 20, 2018, 3:13 pm
  #3772  
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Originally Posted by mikesyr18
For mobile wallets, why can't the terminal sense that a fingerprint/PIN was used with the phone before the transaction was made? At that point, one could just press credit or debit without the need for a PIN on the PIN pad.
Stores already can if they support EMV contactless. Well, for regular purchases anyway; not even WF and BofA trust NFC enough (or possibly can't even if they wanted to) to allow it to go through without a PIN at their ATMs.
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Old Feb 20, 2018, 3:59 pm
  #3773  
 
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Originally Posted by mikesyr18
Not really sure what you're talking about.

People can still pay inside if they didn't receive a contactless card, which is something I'm sure gas stations prefer anyways. I like the idea of contactless only pumps... No more card skimming and now we have up to date technology.

Overseas, this isn't a problem because the cards will work because they still have a chip and mag stripe.

If someone feels like walking inside is too much, they can request they receive a contactless card before the bank sends them one.
They can go inside anyway has always been the argument for foreign cards not working in pumps. Also, contactless capable pumps are rare - even in countries with high contactless use like the UK, pay at the pump is one of the places it often *isn't* due to added complexities.

I do think contactless support should be mandated everywhere or at least strongly incentivised, but as long as cards without it are widely issued (worldwide), all terminals should be mandated to be contactless/contact/magstripe entry.
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Old Feb 20, 2018, 4:05 pm
  #3774  
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Originally Posted by AllieKat
They can go inside anyway has always been the argument for foreign cards not working in pumps. Also, contactless capable pumps are rare - even in countries with high contactless use like the UK, pay at the pump is one of the places it often *isn't* due to added complexities.

I do think contactless support should be mandated everywhere or at least strongly incentivised, but as long as cards without it are widely issued (worldwide), all terminals should be mandated to be contactless/contact/magstripe entry.
I thought one of the reasons pay at the pump isn't as common elsewhere is due to the desire to have people buying additional items along with gas. Not that it isn't also an incentive for American gas station owners, mind you, just more so.
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Old Feb 20, 2018, 4:45 pm
  #3775  
 
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Originally Posted by tmiw
Cash back at a store. If/when EMV contactless becomes more common, those credit/debit prompts will possibly go away as stores will just run every contactless transaction as "credit". (Otherwise, people will have to enter PINs for mobile wallet purchases as well as using whatever biometric authentication's required, which is a UX nightmare IMO.)

Also, you're assuming that the rest of the world will move on to something else by the time we adopt contactless. While that may be true, it's also possible that contactless payment ends up being the "standard" for quite a long time. Or even that the "something else" is something we're already doing, namely switching away from in-person shopping to online shopping.
I think the “something else” is mobile phone based which the US is at least trying. Now that Shell just enabled contactless literally right out of the blue when they didn’t have to shoes some hope. I live on the reservation and I always chat up the cashiers of the local Shell station, they always said before “people always tried to tap their phones before and it didn’t work” - well now it does! And this is on a Indian reservation! If people are demanding it this much on a reservation- surely people are demanding it in cities, and the “city” is Phoenix and I see the same reactions, people demanding it. Enough for these guys to enable it. My “Reckers and Sally’s” burger job we are working on will have contactless enabled, because of demand! Erin is 25 years older than I am and uses contactless daily!! Valley Metro, the bus and train system for Phoenix is doing a mobile pay app because people are demanding to pay with their phones. Probably won’t be contactless because of the fare machine vendor but something! I’m doing a beta volunteer test on their app so I’m excited for that too!

Last edited by RedLight2015; Feb 20, 2018 at 4:51 pm
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Old Feb 20, 2018, 5:20 pm
  #3776  
 
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Originally Posted by tmiw
I thought one of the reasons pay at the pump isn't as common elsewhere is due to the desire to have people buying additional items along with gas. Not that it isn't also an incentive for American gas station owners, mind you, just more so.
Absolutely... I think Americans just wouldn't get fuel somewhere without pay at the pump :P But I'm referring to stations that *do* have pay at the pump... I don't think I've ever seen a contactless reader outside the US on a pump.
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Old Feb 20, 2018, 6:09 pm
  #3777  
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Originally Posted by RedLight2015
I think the “something else” is mobile phone based which the US is at least trying. Now that Shell just enabled contactless literally right out of the blue when they didn’t have to shoes some hope. I live on the reservation and I always chat up the cashiers of the local Shell station, they always said before “people always tried to tap their phones before and it didn’t work” - well now it does! And this is on a Indian reservation! If people are demanding it this much on a reservation- surely people are demanding it in cities, and the “city” is Phoenix and I see the same reactions, people demanding it. Enough for these guys to enable it. My “Reckers and Sally’s” burger job we are working on will have contactless enabled, because of demand! Erin is 25 years older than I am and uses contactless daily!! Valley Metro, the bus and train system for Phoenix is doing a mobile pay app because people are demanding to pay with their phones. Probably won’t be contactless because of the fare machine vendor but something! I’m doing a beta volunteer test on their app so I’m excited for that too!
I lumped contactless and mobile payment together in my previous post. I guess what I meant by "something else" was maybe retinal scans or something that didn't require a phone or card--or possibly something involving abandoning Visa/MC altogether. Who knows?

EDIT: also Amazon Go-type stores might become more common, too, but that wouldn't necessarily mean an end to the card networks. Just every transaction effectively being card not present.

Originally Posted by AllieKat
Absolutely... I think Americans just wouldn't get fuel somewhere without pay at the pump :P But I'm referring to stations that *do* have pay at the pump... I don't think I've ever seen a contactless reader outside the US on a pump.
A Chevron in West Yellowstone, MT without pay at the pump seemed pretty busy, actually--despite there being other gas stations nearby with pay at the pump. I suspect that's an exception though.
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Old Feb 20, 2018, 7:03 pm
  #3778  
 
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Originally Posted by tmiw
I lumped contactless and mobile payment together in my previous post. I guess what I meant by "something else" was maybe retinal scans or something that didn't require a phone or card--or possibly something involving abandoning Visa/MC altogether. Who knows?

EDIT: also Amazon Go-type stores might become more common, too, but that wouldn't necessarily mean an end to the card networks. Just every transaction effectively being card not present.



A Chevron in West Yellowstone, MT without pay at the pump seemed pretty busy, actually--despite there being other gas stations nearby with pay at the pump. I suspect that's an exception though.
I think the Card Networks are pushing mobile technology in the US so that way they can be at the "forefront" of it all, meaning they would have relevance in todays society. I really hope they succeed, as I do imagine the dream of leaving the house with nothing but my phone one day. I already have systems installed in my car to be able to start the car with my phone, I keep my car insurance and health insurance cards on my phone, My state is one of the states that is going to do the digital drivers license thing, and tribal IDs are scanned in, etc are on the phone. I am an avid user of Apple Pay, Target Wallet, Walmart Pay, CVS Pay, and going to set up my Chase Pay tomorrow to try it out. I also have Level Up for Fired Pie which is a local Phoenix thing (for now?, not sure), and I can pay with a QR code in my Apple Wallet in that app. As stated earlier I am working with Valley Metro here in Phoenix to test out the new mobile bus/train passes- I am thinking it'll be QR Code based.

Aaannnd I feel with all of this I am only 80% of the way there. The remaining 20% are those pesky swipe only stores, LOL. Maybe I WOULD benefit with a Samsung phone for Samsung Pay, but I am too well engrained in the Apple eco-system and definitely don't want to spend the money repurchasing all of my stuff, as I am an avid user of Apple HomeKit as well!
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Old Feb 20, 2018, 8:46 pm
  #3779  
 
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Originally Posted by AllieKat
Absolutely... I think Americans just wouldn't get fuel somewhere without pay at the pump :P But I'm referring to stations that *do* have pay at the pump... I don't think I've ever seen a contactless reader outside the US on a pump.
There pretty common here in Canada, Petro Canada, Husky, Canadian Tire, Real Canadian Superstore and some Essos all have contactless readers on the pumps (Many of these chains even had contactless before EMV was rolled out to the pumps). Your right though, most countries doesn't seem to have them (or are not very widespread), although I've spotted one or two in Australia and one at a new Tesco Petrol station pump in Norwich (UK).
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Old Feb 20, 2018, 8:48 pm
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Originally Posted by RedLight2015
Aaannnd I feel with all of this I am only 80% of the way there. The remaining 20% are those pesky swipe only stores, LOL. Maybe I WOULD benefit with a Samsung phone for Samsung Pay, but I am too well engrained in the Apple eco-system and definitely don't want to spend the money repurchasing all of my stuff, as I am an avid user of Apple HomeKit as well!
I also wouldn't say Samsung Pay is 100% reliable due to the terrible setups some stores have (either the mag stripe reader not being customer accessible or the machine will just decline it as it's not processing something correctly) in the US. It works in Canada on non-contactless terminals with 100% reliability but I'm guessing thats because most terminals aren't customized and are just separate standalone terminals (So process everything correctly).
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