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USA EMV cards: Availability, Q&A (Chip & PIN or Signature) [2017>]

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Old Jan 16, 2017, 10:23 am
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What is EMV?
EMV is a standard for smart (or integrated-circuit, or chip) cards and the devices that can accept them. The standards are maintained by EMVCo and based on ISO 7816 (or ISO 14443 for contactless).

These cards come in two flavours: contact and contactless. Examples below:
----------------------------------------------------------

Notice the contactless indicator on the right-hand side (it looks like a sideways Wi-Fi symbol). It may also be found on the back of the card (for example, on the back of the new Costco credit card).


Where can I get a chip card?

Hawaiian717 operates a website with crowd-sourced information about various cards. You can adjust the search parameters to see cards with contactless, have PIN-primary authentication, etc.

Which businesses accept chip cards?

tmiw operates a website, also primarily crowd-sourced, that tracks chip-enabled merchants on a map. You can see if a merchant supports PIN, contactless, Quick Chip, et al.

Why doesn't my chip card ask for a PIN?

This is likely because you have a signature-preferring card. At this time, PIN-preferring cards issued in the US are rare. Not many financial institutions offer them; most of them instead provide Chip-and-Signature cards, which are programmed to prefer signature over PIN, if the card supports PIN at all.

What is the difference between Chip-and-Signature and Chip-and-PIN?

To the cardholder, the only major difference is how they authenticate themselves at the point of sale. The cardholder inserts their card as normal; instead of signing a screen or receipt, they will be asked to enter their PIN on the keypad.

[spoiler]

A few financial institutions issue some form of Chip-and-PIN credit cards or prepaid cards. Prepaid EMV cards however are not recommended due to junk fees.

Why no PIN? (cont.)
American debit cards are unique because they are psuedo-PIN-preferring cards. which may work at many automated kiosks. However, bear in mind the word may is used above is a context where there is no absolute certainty of success for certain environments such as automated kiosks due to different natures of offline and online transactions.

What is the difference between Chip-and-Signature and Chip-and-PIN? (cont.)

Most cards issued in the US are programmed to prefer signature, so save very few instances, they will prompt for a signature (unless the merchant sets a signature waiver). A PIN may be necessary in countries with mostly PIN-preferring cards when using unattended terminals (such as pay-at-the-pump or mass transit). If the card has a PIN for backup verification or ATMs, then that PIN should work. Otherwise, the card will be rejected. If the card is rejected, then either a.) the transaction must be performed by an attendant or b.) an alternative payment method will be required.

Some credit union issued credit cards will have this CVM (Cardholder Verification Method) as secondary if Chip-and-Signature cannot be done. Chip-and-PIN is the more prevalent method of authentication used outside the US, especially in transaction environments where no human interaction is needed (i.e. automated gas pumps, toll roads, train kiosks, etc.).

One chip can hold a lot more data, therefore it is capable of doing multiple verification methods. That's one of the great things about EMV over the mag-stripe which can hold very little data.

I want to know for sure what my EMV chip does. Is there anyway I can test out my own EMV card to see what the CVM list is?
alexmt has written up a nice step-by-step procedure on Post #3615.

If most of the EMV cards in the US is the Chip-and-Signature type, doesn't that mean it's still useless abroad?
Depends if you see it as glass half empty or glass half full. See Post #3 for further details on how Chip-and-Signature has worked both successfully and unsuccessfully depending on the merchant transaction environment and use your best judgment whether which one is right for you.


I don't want a chip in my card. I heard horror stories all over the media saying hackers can steal my credit card info from a mile away.


There are two types of chips. One is contactless and the other is contact. Cards can be either one or the other, or both.

In the Google Docs spreadsheet, the cards that are capable of contactless payments are listed seperately under the "RFID or NFC contactless chip" column. If it says yes, then that means it has the ability to do contactless payments. If it says no, it doesn't have that feature.

The one that the media has overhyped about hackers "stealing your information wirelessly" was the contactless type like this:

You are worried about this happening, right?

You don't have to worry. EMV is a chip standard that can have both contact and contactless interfaces. With the traditional contact interface, this means you actually have to physically insert the chip into a POS terminal for it to be authorized, like this:

With the contact interface, nothing is wireless. No data is sent out in a stand-alone contact type EMV chip. With the EMV contactless interface, data is sent wirelessly.

Furthermore, contactless chip cards are required to show a symbol (looks like Wi-Fi symbol) somewhere on the card that to denote its capability as a contactless card. For example, here's an example of a Discover Card with contactless capability (in which Discover calls "Discover ZIP") showing the contactless symbol on the back of the card:

Don't believe everything that the media says. Besides, millions of people all over the world from London to Singapore, uses contactless payments daily in extremely crowded subways and mass transit with nary any problems. There are multiple layers of encrypted securities and keys that are needed to break the code.

Frankly, giving your physical card to a waiter/waitress who takes the card out of your view is much more susceptible to fraud than contactless payments.

Why should I care?
If you are an international traveler, you will want this because majority of the world has or in the process of converting to this payment format.

In fact, in 2012, even North Korea moved to the EMV format, leaving the US as one of the countries in the world that hasn't done so.

In addition, VISA, MC, AMEX, and Discover have all agreed to incentivize the USA shifting to EMV payments by 2015 by shifting liability for fraudulent transactions to merchants if they do not have EMV equipment and the cardholder has an EMV card. So if you travel internationally or would like to get one before the others, you might be interested in getting one.


BS! I had no problems using my card in [insert whereever country], [insert whatever point in time]
If you stick to the tourist path where they have lots of visitors from the US, you should have no problems using your mag-stripe only card in hotels and restaurants, at least for now. But as things can change as things go forward.

However, consider that once you start taking the off-beaten path, go to non-touristy places where they are not familiar with mag-stripes, rent a car and use toll roads, fill up gas, or try to buy train tickets you might end up into a trouble of the machine not recognizing your card because it lacks the chip. Furthermore, a lot of toll roads, gas pumps, and automated ticket machines lack any human assistance to help you when you need it the most.

But [insert credit card company] told me all merchants that display their logo must accept them! All I have to do is report them for violating their agreements, right?
There are several factors against this.

1. You can only speak English. The merchant representative, most likely a part-time clerk earning minimum wage, speaks in a different language, let's say French. If you have no French language skills, how are you going to get your point across? Are you going to whip out your cell phone at exorbitant int'l roaming charges and hope the customer service is going to translate it for you on the spot? Or maybe you might actually know French. But how about Swahili, Farsi, Balinese, or the multiple languages in mainland China?

2. Just like US, the rest of the world's businesses uses part-time minimum wage workers as cashiers to cut down on labor costs. Most of their SOP training manuals are written by MBA types to not to do anything they are not familiar with. Do not expect them to understand the intricate details of credit card mumbo jumbo. You don't expect Taco Bell employees to understand the minute details of Discover-JCB-Union Pay agreements, right? Same thing the other way around: be respectful as a guest in their country, prepare in advance in their ways, avoid being an "ugly American" stereotype.

3. You are a guest in their country. You are a minority. If 99.9% of their country's people and other tourists from around the world uses EMV, do you really think they are going to accomodate the 0.1% of American tourists who only have mag-stripes credit cards?

4. Again, you are a guest in their country. How would you, as an American standing in line, react if a Chinese tourist was clogging up the lines at a local Taco Bell because the clerk doesn't understand the Discover-Union Pay agreement and has trouble communicating between Mandarin spoken by the tourist and English spoken by the Taco Bell clerk? Same way the other way around. You do not want to clog up the lines for everyone. The less hassle, the better.

5. VISA and MC make tons of money from merchants in that country. Say SNCF French Rail. It's a billion dollar company in France. Do you think VISA is going to pull the plug of their relationship with SNCF because SNCF refuses to do mag-stripe processing at their unmanned train station kiosk? Of course not. Be realistic.

6. And lastly, if you're up against an unstaffed toll kiosk, gas pump or train ticket machine, are you going to yell curses at the machine?

But I want my credit card to be able to be used in the US too!
No worries. They have not gotten rid of the mag-stripe on the back of the card for backward compatibility reasons, just like we still have embossed numbers on our cards for backwards compatibility to using those old carbon copy imprinters.

[insert own Hyatt card image front and back together with red arrows pointing to all the backward compatibility features]

You use the chip on the front of the card abroad (for now), and the mag-stripe just like any other card for the US. Basically, you're increasing your credit card's acceptance rate by getting a card that both via the chip and the mag-stripe. You're getting a better deal for free.

And when 2015 comes along and US switches to EMV, you'll be way ahead of everyone else too!


So why did the rest of the world and the US moved/moving toward EMV?
Primarily, due to fraud concerns. You see, the mag-stripe has been with us since the 1950s. It may have been the most high tech thing back in the day, but with the technology that is available today, any shmo can pick up a $100 USB magnetic card skimming device off of eBay and get your credit card info.

And unlike skimming off contactless cards which actually need the person to have l33t programming skills, skimming off a magnetic stripe has become so ubiquitous that nary a day goes about skimming fraud going on somewhere in America, from gas pumps, Michael's stores (2011), Target breaches (2013), restaurant waiters/waitresses, to even McDonald's drive thrus.

https://www.google.com/search?q=skimming+fraud

These type of fraud used to be prevalent in Europe. But once they started switching over to EMV starting over 2 decades ago, this type of fraud went elsewhere. It went over to Asia, Canada and Mexico, Latin America, etc. etc. until they too began implementing EMV to combat skimming fraud. The US is practically the only country left that hasn't done so, therefore all the fraud that used to take place elsewhere is now happening here.


But EMV is old and it's not fool proof. Shouldn't we just skip over it and do something new instead?
Yes, EMV is old. It was developed in the 1990s, and its smart card payment predecessor was first introduced in France. But as of today, it has become the de-facto global standard of payments.

But then, what else is there? There is no other de facto global standard of payments alternative. For example, if we decide to skip over it and do something new, hypothetically like DNA matching technology, it still means US int'l travelers will continue to have problems abroad with useless plastic acceptance because no other country is using this DNA matching technology except the US.

Besides, nothing is fool proof. You can say that the bank vault isn't fool proof because you can crack it open if enough C4 is used. But your average low-life scumbag isn't likely to get military grade C4 easily either. But the bank vault does make it harder to get the bank's money over say a petty cash box. That's the point here. EMV is akin to a security tight bank vault, the old mag-stripe is akin to a petty cash box lying around inside the drawer.


I'm a business owner and I don't think EMV is going to take off. I'm not going to spend extra hundreds of dollars to upgrade my credit card machine. Convince me other wise why I should.
I can understand the added extra cost to your business once this switchover takes place. But before even saying that, look at your existing POS terminal. Does it have a slot somewhere to insert a card?

Most likely, if you had replaced your POS terminal within the past five years, you already have an EMV capable terminal. EMV is basically just not turned on yet from the processor and acquirer side.

If you have an EMV capable terminal, then a best bet would be to contact your acquirer to have the EMV feature turned on. You did your end of the deal already by having an EMV capable terminal, it is now the acquirers' responsibility to turn it on in accordance to the EMV switchover mandate.

And if you don't, you are going to replace your POS terminal anyway from common wear and tear. It isn't a hard switch-over. You can continue to use your POS terminal until it dies out because EMV cardholders will still have the mag-stripe on the back. And by the time your non-EMV capable POS terminal is up for replacement the market will be full with these newer POS terminals that can accept the mag-stripe, EMV, as well as contactless payments.

In addition, you may also want to check with your acquirer or processor about EMV capable terminals. Some of them are willing to replace your terminal for free in preparation for the US EMV switchover. Call and ask for details.


But what's in it for me? I'm the one that has to pay for the upgrade.
All the major card networks have given incentives for merchants for the upcoming EMV switchover.

If 75% or more of your credit card transactions are done on an EMV contact and contactless terminal, they are going to waive your annual PCI-DSS fees, which usually costs you around $5.00-$19.95/month per terminal. The overall long term cost savings of those compliance fees will be larger than the cost of an one time upgrade for the terminal.

The downside is that once EMV switchover happens and if you do not have a POS terminal that is able to accept EMV, the fraud liability shifts over to the merchant.
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USA EMV cards: Availability, Q&A (Chip & PIN or Signature) [2017>]

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Old May 16, 2017, 2:55 am
  #1456  
 
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You know Allie, and believe me I'm not one of those red, white and blue people or one who is fooled by American exceptionalism, but any time one crosses international borders, the systems break down even though one of the purposes of the international card networks is to avoid this.

Example...I do not think US credit cards on either Apple pay or Android pay work on the London Underground. Why not?

Example...I wanted to top up on its web site my Vodafone UK sim card with a simple Ł10 top up but find they only accept UK registered credit cards (they enforce this by requiring a UK postal code where the card is registered). Why? Especially since the amounts are usually trivial. (Just for the record and to be fair, Vodafone does accept paypal for top ups. However 3 UK does the same thing and has no provision to accept paypal. To top up, I have to use a third party web site, mobiletopup.co.uk and while they do take paypal, they surcharge top ups by Ł1.25 on their web site.) Just as much a pain to me as your problems are to you.

You know my frustrations with the continued stupidity in your country of requiring signatures on even the smallest charge. One could argue we're ahead of the game here by dropping that silly requirement as signatures perform no security benefits given that they are hardly looked at and even when they are, 99% of the time the clerk is not going to get involved. So we're better at that than other places here.

I'm not defending anything. I'm not overly criticizing anything. Frankly there should be uniformity everywhere. Unfortunately, every country has a unique set of problems. The problem here is the sheer size of the payment system and the competition among banks to sign up as many high rollers as possible and not be left behind. Let's face it. Contactless just hasn't caught on here just like it took chipped cards to catch on here and you will meet bank executives who tell you there was nothing wrong with the mag strips.

It is what it is. We all have to roll with the punches and just hope they are minor glitches. But whining about it every day on any of our parts, me included, is not going to change things for the better. So why lose sleep over it?
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Old May 16, 2017, 6:25 am
  #1457  
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Originally Posted by JEFFJAGUAR
......I do not think US credit cards on either Apple pay or Android pay work on the London Underground.
USA cards do work on London Underground via Android Pay. No experience with Apple Pay.

Some contactless USA cards do work on London Underground (American Express, HSBC MasterCard).
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Old May 16, 2017, 6:55 am
  #1458  
 
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Originally Posted by mia
USA cards do work on London Underground via Android Pay. No experience with Apple Pay.

Some contactless USA cards do work on London Underground (American Express, HSBC MasterCard).
It's good to know; I had read otherwise. Which card?
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Old May 16, 2017, 8:07 am
  #1459  
 
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Originally Posted by D582
Wegmans? Gold standard? Surely you jest.

I am doing some work in the US Northeast, where Wegmans is present. I went today and used the self-checkout. I scanned the groceries, and pressed 'Finish and Pay'.

The terminal said Insert/Swipe and had the Apple Pay and EMVCo Contactless logo.

Attempt 1: Apple Pay, VISA, Canadian card (only qVSDC supported). Phone: Could Not Complete Payment error. Terminal: Card Not Accepted. Use Chip Reader. Then 10 seconds of white screen. Then 10 seconds of black screen. Then Verifone logo for at least a minute. At this point I took the items out of the bag and went to another till.

Attempt 2: Apple Pay, VISA, US card. Phone: Done. Terminal: Chip Card Detected. Use Chip Reader. 10 seconds of white screen before prompting for payment again.

Attempt 3: Apple Pay, AMEX, US card. Phone: Done. Terminal: Processing, Please Wait.... for at least 20 seconds. Then worker comes over and says 'Oh, you have to press this 'Credit/Debit' tender button on the till or it won't actually process'. I ask what happens on the regular tills and they said 'same thing, we have to push 'Card' or else nothing happens'.

If this is the 'gold standard', I'd hate to see what qualifies as silver.



Yes, 'tap and go', as in 'tap and not have to sign or enter a PIN'. Perhaps you should travel to another contactless-mature country and see how it works according to standards. Judging by your FT handle and the fact that you shop at Wegmans which is concentrated in the US Northeast, a drive to Canada is not that far.



That's a brilliant and very welcoming attitude to have. Cheers.
Pretty sure I meant gold standard for American based merchants and cited the reasons why.

Again... You walk into Rite Aid. You see a sticker that says, "please swipe card first," and then as a customer I ask, "why??" The cashier says, "the readers freezes frequently when you use the chip reader first." You then swipe and then insert your card first (pretty idiotic) and then stare for 30 seconds as the screen in front of you glitches out... Suddenly, you hear an error like noise... Oh wait, that's just the prompt for you to remove the card. But wait, it gets better. If you're using a chipped debit card, you have to swipe instead of insert, unlike with a credit card where you have to both swipe and insert your card because they don't take EMV debit yet.

How about Walgreens? Oh wait, the cashier told me the other day, "you have to swipe for debit and insert for credit." One person earlier reported their card wasn't even working with Apple Pay the other day.

Let's go to Walmart... You try to pay with your phone, but wait, NFC isn't turned on so you look like a fool trying to pay with your phone. You then pull your card out, insert it, and then wait 30 seconds for the transaction to be approved.


But hey man, you seem to think you know it all. You tried Apple Pay with a Visa US card and it didn't work? You're just looking for fluff to make your argument look better... Ask anyone else and they'll tell you their US based contactless card works flawlessly with Apple Pay at Wegmans.

Let's go to Mickey D's now. They turned on their chip readers and many of them didn't even have NFC on, or they were malfunctioning and giving a decline message after trying. How long does it the reader take to read a chipped card there? At least 20 seconds.


Or you could just go to Wegmans where you put your card in, hit debit or credit, wait 3 seconds, remove your card, and then be on your way.

Last edited by mikesyr18; May 16, 2017 at 8:13 am
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Old May 16, 2017, 8:24 am
  #1460  
 
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Originally Posted by AllieKat
Agreed it goes both ways. You end up with people like Mike who are happy to break global interoperability for the sake of what they keep calling "supposed to" and "standards" (even tho neither of those things are true... Just because you would like something does not make it correct). US tourists abroad struggle and vice versa. At least it isn't Japan? Where no even token nod to compatibility is made.

I have no idea where Mike got this idea that the proper behaviour is to be able to insert/especially tap at any time. That's insanely risky for tap as in a well-designed contactless transaction flow the tap serves as confirmation of the amount and there is no further verification. The cashier could then literally charge you anything. Even for insert, it is rather uncommon as except in a Quick Chip transaction flow the terminal can't do anything with the card until it receives the amount. Some places (like KFC) you will LITERALLY CRASH THEIR TERMINAL if you insert before the total appears (which is also terrible design).

Just because you'd like something doesn't make it correct...

As for Montana, what city? They're very different. I'd have been shocked if that happened in Missoula or Helena, but a smaller town it is sadly totally unsurprising.

So you live in Canada now, eh?
Not sure if you've received the message yet. With US banks opting for chip and signature, globalization in the card world has been thrown out the window.

Also, quick chip allows for inserting your card before the total is rang up. Quick chip is still a step above the magnetic stripe technology we had before. It's not a difficult solution to understand, you know, to be able to insert and remove your card before the transaction is finalized, and then hit an "confirm" button when it asks if the charge for $x.xx is okay.
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Old May 16, 2017, 8:43 am
  #1461  
 
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Originally Posted by mikesyr18
Pretty sure I meant gold standard for American based merchants and cited the reasons why.

Again... You walk into Rite Aid. You see a sticker that says, "please swipe card first," and then as a customer I ask, "why??" The cashier says, "the readers freezes frequently when you use the chip reader first." You then swipe and then insert your card first (pretty idiotic) and then stare for 30 seconds as the screen in front of you glitches out... Suddenly, you hear an error like noise... Oh wait, that's just the prompt for you to remove the card. But wait, it gets better. If you're using a chipped debit card, you have to swipe instead of insert, unlike with a credit card where you have to both swipe and insert your card because they don't take EMV debit yet.

How about Walgreens? Oh wait, the cashier told me the other day, "you have to swipe for debit and insert for credit." One person earlier reported their card wasn't even working with Apple Pay the other day.

Let's go to Walmart... You try to pay with your phone, but wait, NFC isn't turned on so you look like a fool trying to pay with your phone. You then pull your card out, insert it, and then wait 30 seconds for the transaction to be approved.


But hey man, you seem to think you know it all. You tried Apple Pay with a Visa US card and it didn't work? You're just looking for fluff to make your argument look better... Ask anyone else and they'll tell you their US based contactless card works flawlessly with Apple Pay at Wegmans.

Let's go to Mickey D's now. They turned on their chip readers and many of them didn't even have NFC on, or they were malfunctioning and giving a decline message after trying. How long does it the reader take to read a chipped card there? At least 20 seconds.


Or you could just go to Wegmans where you put your card in, hit debit or credit, wait 3 seconds, remove your card, and then be on your way.
Walgreens is insert for all cards, the only two stores I know of that's Swipe for debit and insert credit is Lowe's and Rite Aid.
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Old May 16, 2017, 8:46 am
  #1462  
 
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Originally Posted by RedLight2015
Walgreens is insert for all cards, the only two stores I know of that's Swipe for debit and insert credit is Lowe's and Rite Aid.
Didn't I just say I was there the other day?... It's still swipe for debit. Perhaps the Walgreens you go to is EMV for both. Either that or there's a misinformed cashier, but since the lady in front of me used an Empower debit card and swiped it, I have a feeling they're correct.
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Old May 16, 2017, 9:07 am
  #1463  
 
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Originally Posted by mikesyr18
Didn't I just say I was there the other day?... It's still swipe for debit. Perhaps the Walgreens you go to is EMV for both. Either that or there's a misinformed cashier, but since the lady in front of me used an Empower debit card and swiped it, I have a feeling they're correct.
Every single Walgreens I have been to it's always been insert for all cards. I was just at one an hour ago. I'm not saying I don't believe you but why would they make it different between stores?
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Old May 16, 2017, 10:16 am
  #1464  
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Originally Posted by mia
USA cards do work on London Underground via Android Pay. No experience with Apple Pay.
For all networks? At least for Apple Pay I thought only MasterCard worked due to supporting both ODA and EMV contactless (vs. Visa not supporting the former and AmEx only being MSD).

Originally Posted by mikesyr18
Again... You walk into Rite Aid. You see a sticker that says, "please swipe card first," and then as a customer I ask, "why??" The cashier says, "the readers freezes frequently when you use the chip reader first." You then swipe and then insert your card first (pretty idiotic) and then stare for 30 seconds as the screen in front of you glitches out... Suddenly, you hear an error like noise... Oh wait, that's just the prompt for you to remove the card. But wait, it gets better. If you're using a chipped debit card, you have to swipe instead of insert, unlike with a credit card where you have to both swipe and insert your card because they don't take EMV debit yet.
I'm pretty sure I'm able to insert directly without having to swipe first. I don't use EMV there often though and definitely not with debit. Maybe the key is waiting until they're done ringing stuff up?

Originally Posted by mikesyr18
Let's go to Walmart... You try to pay with your phone, but wait, NFC isn't turned on so you look like a fool trying to pay with your phone. You then pull your card out, insert it, and then wait 30 seconds for the transaction to be approved.
Walmart does not take 30 seconds. It might be slower than people would like but not that slow.


Originally Posted by mikesyr18
But hey man, you seem to think you know it all. You tried Apple Pay with a Visa US card and it didn't work? You're just looking for fluff to make your argument look better... Ask anyone else and they'll tell you their US based contactless card works flawlessly with Apple Pay at Wegmans.
Why would anyone else's US issued Visa card work if his didn't?

Originally Posted by mikesyr18
Let's go to Mickey D's now. They turned on their chip readers and many of them didn't even have NFC on, or they were malfunctioning and giving a decline message after trying. How long does it the reader take to read a chipped card there? At least 20 seconds.
This reminds me that I really should record EMV being used at McDonald's like I did with the Walmart video above. I'm fairly certain it doesn't take 20 seconds though.

Originally Posted by mikesyr18
Or you could just go to Wegmans where you put your card in, hit debit or credit, wait 3 seconds, remove your card, and then be on your way.
You still have to wait for the issuer to authorize the transaction. It's not like Quick Chip makes that any faster.
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Old May 16, 2017, 11:05 am
  #1465  
 
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Originally Posted by tmiw
For all networks? At least for Apple Pay I thought only MasterCard worked due to supporting both ODA and EMV contactless (vs. Visa not supporting the former and AmEx only being MSD).
Mastercard in Apple Pay on a US iPhone worked for me on the London Underground in May 2015.
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Old May 16, 2017, 11:43 am
  #1466  
 
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Originally Posted by JEFFJAGUAR
Example...I do not think US credit cards on either Apple pay or Android pay work on the London Underground. Why not?
Amex Platinum and Chase CSR on Apple Pay did not work on London Underground last week. CapitalOne Quicksilver on Apple Pay worked fine.
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Old May 16, 2017, 12:04 pm
  #1467  
 
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Originally Posted by vsuri
CapitalOne Quicksilver on Apple Pay worked fine.
Was it a Visa or a Mastercard version of Quicksilver?
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Old May 16, 2017, 1:09 pm
  #1468  
 
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Originally Posted by tmiw
For all networks? At least for Apple Pay I thought only MasterCard worked due to supporting both ODA and EMV contactless (vs. Visa not supporting the former and AmEx only being MSD).



I'm pretty sure I'm able to insert directly without having to swipe first. I don't use EMV there often though and definitely not with debit. Maybe the key is waiting until they're done ringing stuff up?



Walmart does not take 30 seconds. It might be slower than people would like but not that slow.

EMV at Walmart 2015-10-14 - YouTube



Why would anyone else's US issued Visa card work if his didn't?



This reminds me that I really should record EMV being used at McDonald's like I did with the Walmart video above. I'm fairly certain it doesn't take 20 seconds though.



You still have to wait for the issuer to authorize the transaction. It's not like Quick Chip makes that any faster.
Rite Aid's POS is lousy, but you can definitely use chip without having to swipe first. I believe debit cards also have the option of what application to use, so you should be able to avoid swiping for debit if you just choose the global AID.

Walmart's EMV is actually decent, last I remember. It doesn't take long at all with both MX915 and iSC250. At the very least, it's faster than CVS. They just make it tedious to route debit cards over V/MC versus the EFT networks.

As for McDonald's, it really depends on the location's connection. I said a week or two ago that Apple Pay took twenty-odd seconds to authorise at one inside Walmart, but it took less than a second at a standalone one. One thing's for sure, though - their up-to-spec software is not the issue.

Also, tmiw, I think you're mistaken. If I can't pull out quickly, then the system is obviously slow. /s
emmanuel_t is offline  
Old May 16, 2017, 3:16 pm
  #1469  
 
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Not sure if this has since changed, but the last time I paid at Macy's with a debit card, they did have an unnecessary single option prompt with "US DEBIT", however, it was still possible to bypass the PIN to have the card routed over the global AID by pressing the green button when the PIN screen shows up.
Delta 764 is offline  
Old May 16, 2017, 3:19 pm
  #1470  
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Northern Virginia
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Originally Posted by Delta 764
Not sure if this has since changed, but the last time I paid at Macy's with a debit card, they did have an unnecessary single option prompt with "US DEBIT", however, it was still possible to bypass the PIN to have the card routed over the global AID by pressing the green button when the PIN screen shows up.
Just a note: bypassing PIN after choosing the common AID doesn't change the AID used but rather changes the network used to route the transaction. In your case, the common AID is still used, but the transaction uses No CVM/Signature and processes over Visa.
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