Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Credit, Debit and Prepaid Card Programs > Credit Card Programs
Reload this Page >

USA EMV cards: Availability, Q&A (Chip & PIN or Signature) [2017>]

Community
Wiki Posts
Search
Old Jan 16, 2017, 10:23 am
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: serpens


Older (archived) threads:
2012-2015 2016

What is EMV?
EMV is a standard for smart (or integrated-circuit, or chip) cards and the devices that can accept them. The standards are maintained by EMVCo and based on ISO 7816 (or ISO 14443 for contactless).

These cards come in two flavours: contact and contactless. Examples below:
----------------------------------------------------------

Notice the contactless indicator on the right-hand side (it looks like a sideways Wi-Fi symbol). It may also be found on the back of the card (for example, on the back of the new Costco credit card).


Where can I get a chip card?

Hawaiian717 operates a website with crowd-sourced information about various cards. You can adjust the search parameters to see cards with contactless, have PIN-primary authentication, etc.

Which businesses accept chip cards?

tmiw operates a website, also primarily crowd-sourced, that tracks chip-enabled merchants on a map. You can see if a merchant supports PIN, contactless, Quick Chip, et al.

Why doesn't my chip card ask for a PIN?

This is likely because you have a signature-preferring card. At this time, PIN-preferring cards issued in the US are rare. Not many financial institutions offer them; most of them instead provide Chip-and-Signature cards, which are programmed to prefer signature over PIN, if the card supports PIN at all.

What is the difference between Chip-and-Signature and Chip-and-PIN?

To the cardholder, the only major difference is how they authenticate themselves at the point of sale. The cardholder inserts their card as normal; instead of signing a screen or receipt, they will be asked to enter their PIN on the keypad.

[spoiler]

A few financial institutions issue some form of Chip-and-PIN credit cards or prepaid cards. Prepaid EMV cards however are not recommended due to junk fees.

Why no PIN? (cont.)
American debit cards are unique because they are psuedo-PIN-preferring cards. which may work at many automated kiosks. However, bear in mind the word may is used above is a context where there is no absolute certainty of success for certain environments such as automated kiosks due to different natures of offline and online transactions.

What is the difference between Chip-and-Signature and Chip-and-PIN? (cont.)

Most cards issued in the US are programmed to prefer signature, so save very few instances, they will prompt for a signature (unless the merchant sets a signature waiver). A PIN may be necessary in countries with mostly PIN-preferring cards when using unattended terminals (such as pay-at-the-pump or mass transit). If the card has a PIN for backup verification or ATMs, then that PIN should work. Otherwise, the card will be rejected. If the card is rejected, then either a.) the transaction must be performed by an attendant or b.) an alternative payment method will be required.

Some credit union issued credit cards will have this CVM (Cardholder Verification Method) as secondary if Chip-and-Signature cannot be done. Chip-and-PIN is the more prevalent method of authentication used outside the US, especially in transaction environments where no human interaction is needed (i.e. automated gas pumps, toll roads, train kiosks, etc.).

One chip can hold a lot more data, therefore it is capable of doing multiple verification methods. That's one of the great things about EMV over the mag-stripe which can hold very little data.

I want to know for sure what my EMV chip does. Is there anyway I can test out my own EMV card to see what the CVM list is?
alexmt has written up a nice step-by-step procedure on Post #3615.

If most of the EMV cards in the US is the Chip-and-Signature type, doesn't that mean it's still useless abroad?
Depends if you see it as glass half empty or glass half full. See Post #3 for further details on how Chip-and-Signature has worked both successfully and unsuccessfully depending on the merchant transaction environment and use your best judgment whether which one is right for you.


I don't want a chip in my card. I heard horror stories all over the media saying hackers can steal my credit card info from a mile away.


There are two types of chips. One is contactless and the other is contact. Cards can be either one or the other, or both.

In the Google Docs spreadsheet, the cards that are capable of contactless payments are listed seperately under the "RFID or NFC contactless chip" column. If it says yes, then that means it has the ability to do contactless payments. If it says no, it doesn't have that feature.

The one that the media has overhyped about hackers "stealing your information wirelessly" was the contactless type like this:

You are worried about this happening, right?

You don't have to worry. EMV is a chip standard that can have both contact and contactless interfaces. With the traditional contact interface, this means you actually have to physically insert the chip into a POS terminal for it to be authorized, like this:

With the contact interface, nothing is wireless. No data is sent out in a stand-alone contact type EMV chip. With the EMV contactless interface, data is sent wirelessly.

Furthermore, contactless chip cards are required to show a symbol (looks like Wi-Fi symbol) somewhere on the card that to denote its capability as a contactless card. For example, here's an example of a Discover Card with contactless capability (in which Discover calls "Discover ZIP") showing the contactless symbol on the back of the card:

Don't believe everything that the media says. Besides, millions of people all over the world from London to Singapore, uses contactless payments daily in extremely crowded subways and mass transit with nary any problems. There are multiple layers of encrypted securities and keys that are needed to break the code.

Frankly, giving your physical card to a waiter/waitress who takes the card out of your view is much more susceptible to fraud than contactless payments.

Why should I care?
If you are an international traveler, you will want this because majority of the world has or in the process of converting to this payment format.

In fact, in 2012, even North Korea moved to the EMV format, leaving the US as one of the countries in the world that hasn't done so.

In addition, VISA, MC, AMEX, and Discover have all agreed to incentivize the USA shifting to EMV payments by 2015 by shifting liability for fraudulent transactions to merchants if they do not have EMV equipment and the cardholder has an EMV card. So if you travel internationally or would like to get one before the others, you might be interested in getting one.


BS! I had no problems using my card in [insert whereever country], [insert whatever point in time]
If you stick to the tourist path where they have lots of visitors from the US, you should have no problems using your mag-stripe only card in hotels and restaurants, at least for now. But as things can change as things go forward.

However, consider that once you start taking the off-beaten path, go to non-touristy places where they are not familiar with mag-stripes, rent a car and use toll roads, fill up gas, or try to buy train tickets you might end up into a trouble of the machine not recognizing your card because it lacks the chip. Furthermore, a lot of toll roads, gas pumps, and automated ticket machines lack any human assistance to help you when you need it the most.

But [insert credit card company] told me all merchants that display their logo must accept them! All I have to do is report them for violating their agreements, right?
There are several factors against this.

1. You can only speak English. The merchant representative, most likely a part-time clerk earning minimum wage, speaks in a different language, let's say French. If you have no French language skills, how are you going to get your point across? Are you going to whip out your cell phone at exorbitant int'l roaming charges and hope the customer service is going to translate it for you on the spot? Or maybe you might actually know French. But how about Swahili, Farsi, Balinese, or the multiple languages in mainland China?

2. Just like US, the rest of the world's businesses uses part-time minimum wage workers as cashiers to cut down on labor costs. Most of their SOP training manuals are written by MBA types to not to do anything they are not familiar with. Do not expect them to understand the intricate details of credit card mumbo jumbo. You don't expect Taco Bell employees to understand the minute details of Discover-JCB-Union Pay agreements, right? Same thing the other way around: be respectful as a guest in their country, prepare in advance in their ways, avoid being an "ugly American" stereotype.

3. You are a guest in their country. You are a minority. If 99.9% of their country's people and other tourists from around the world uses EMV, do you really think they are going to accomodate the 0.1% of American tourists who only have mag-stripes credit cards?

4. Again, you are a guest in their country. How would you, as an American standing in line, react if a Chinese tourist was clogging up the lines at a local Taco Bell because the clerk doesn't understand the Discover-Union Pay agreement and has trouble communicating between Mandarin spoken by the tourist and English spoken by the Taco Bell clerk? Same way the other way around. You do not want to clog up the lines for everyone. The less hassle, the better.

5. VISA and MC make tons of money from merchants in that country. Say SNCF French Rail. It's a billion dollar company in France. Do you think VISA is going to pull the plug of their relationship with SNCF because SNCF refuses to do mag-stripe processing at their unmanned train station kiosk? Of course not. Be realistic.

6. And lastly, if you're up against an unstaffed toll kiosk, gas pump or train ticket machine, are you going to yell curses at the machine?

But I want my credit card to be able to be used in the US too!
No worries. They have not gotten rid of the mag-stripe on the back of the card for backward compatibility reasons, just like we still have embossed numbers on our cards for backwards compatibility to using those old carbon copy imprinters.

[insert own Hyatt card image front and back together with red arrows pointing to all the backward compatibility features]

You use the chip on the front of the card abroad (for now), and the mag-stripe just like any other card for the US. Basically, you're increasing your credit card's acceptance rate by getting a card that both via the chip and the mag-stripe. You're getting a better deal for free.

And when 2015 comes along and US switches to EMV, you'll be way ahead of everyone else too!


So why did the rest of the world and the US moved/moving toward EMV?
Primarily, due to fraud concerns. You see, the mag-stripe has been with us since the 1950s. It may have been the most high tech thing back in the day, but with the technology that is available today, any shmo can pick up a $100 USB magnetic card skimming device off of eBay and get your credit card info.

And unlike skimming off contactless cards which actually need the person to have l33t programming skills, skimming off a magnetic stripe has become so ubiquitous that nary a day goes about skimming fraud going on somewhere in America, from gas pumps, Michael's stores (2011), Target breaches (2013), restaurant waiters/waitresses, to even McDonald's drive thrus.

https://www.google.com/search?q=skimming+fraud

These type of fraud used to be prevalent in Europe. But once they started switching over to EMV starting over 2 decades ago, this type of fraud went elsewhere. It went over to Asia, Canada and Mexico, Latin America, etc. etc. until they too began implementing EMV to combat skimming fraud. The US is practically the only country left that hasn't done so, therefore all the fraud that used to take place elsewhere is now happening here.


But EMV is old and it's not fool proof. Shouldn't we just skip over it and do something new instead?
Yes, EMV is old. It was developed in the 1990s, and its smart card payment predecessor was first introduced in France. But as of today, it has become the de-facto global standard of payments.

But then, what else is there? There is no other de facto global standard of payments alternative. For example, if we decide to skip over it and do something new, hypothetically like DNA matching technology, it still means US int'l travelers will continue to have problems abroad with useless plastic acceptance because no other country is using this DNA matching technology except the US.

Besides, nothing is fool proof. You can say that the bank vault isn't fool proof because you can crack it open if enough C4 is used. But your average low-life scumbag isn't likely to get military grade C4 easily either. But the bank vault does make it harder to get the bank's money over say a petty cash box. That's the point here. EMV is akin to a security tight bank vault, the old mag-stripe is akin to a petty cash box lying around inside the drawer.


I'm a business owner and I don't think EMV is going to take off. I'm not going to spend extra hundreds of dollars to upgrade my credit card machine. Convince me other wise why I should.
I can understand the added extra cost to your business once this switchover takes place. But before even saying that, look at your existing POS terminal. Does it have a slot somewhere to insert a card?

Most likely, if you had replaced your POS terminal within the past five years, you already have an EMV capable terminal. EMV is basically just not turned on yet from the processor and acquirer side.

If you have an EMV capable terminal, then a best bet would be to contact your acquirer to have the EMV feature turned on. You did your end of the deal already by having an EMV capable terminal, it is now the acquirers' responsibility to turn it on in accordance to the EMV switchover mandate.

And if you don't, you are going to replace your POS terminal anyway from common wear and tear. It isn't a hard switch-over. You can continue to use your POS terminal until it dies out because EMV cardholders will still have the mag-stripe on the back. And by the time your non-EMV capable POS terminal is up for replacement the market will be full with these newer POS terminals that can accept the mag-stripe, EMV, as well as contactless payments.

In addition, you may also want to check with your acquirer or processor about EMV capable terminals. Some of them are willing to replace your terminal for free in preparation for the US EMV switchover. Call and ask for details.


But what's in it for me? I'm the one that has to pay for the upgrade.
All the major card networks have given incentives for merchants for the upcoming EMV switchover.

If 75% or more of your credit card transactions are done on an EMV contact and contactless terminal, they are going to waive your annual PCI-DSS fees, which usually costs you around $5.00-$19.95/month per terminal. The overall long term cost savings of those compliance fees will be larger than the cost of an one time upgrade for the terminal.

The downside is that once EMV switchover happens and if you do not have a POS terminal that is able to accept EMV, the fraud liability shifts over to the merchant.
Print Wikipost

USA EMV cards: Availability, Q&A (Chip & PIN or Signature) [2017>]

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old May 15, 2017, 4:18 am
  #1441  
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Canada
Programs: BA Gold (OWE), Star Alliance Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,194
Originally Posted by tmiw
That's not really necessary in countries without a limit though (like the US).



The website makes it sound like there's three AIDs associated with it, unless I'm mistaken? Also, I'm not sure their debit-only list is accurate.
Lloyds bank in the UK trialed something similar years ago where the credit card was both an AmEx and MasterCard in one. The problem with it was you couldn't select the application (it would always attempt to use AmEx) and some terminals still support the Amex app even though they don't accept AmEx, so It still wouldn't work at those places. It had two magstripes, one at the top and bottom if I recall correctly. It was a very small trial though, only staff in a couple of branches were part if it (and it only had the Amex card details on it for CNP transactions, no mastercard number). The main reason it wasn't released in the end was MasterCard vetoed it and didn't want consumers to think of it as a worse network (as it gave less points when running on MasterCard). Makes me laugh though as they just issued two separate cards on one account, so it had the same effect. I can't imagine AmEx was thrilled by the idea either as merchants wouldn't have seen much point in taking AmEx.

Diners Club cards (non North American cards) used to be dual Diners and MC cards as well but that was before they had chips.
reclusive46 is offline  
Old May 15, 2017, 4:27 am
  #1442  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,537
Originally Posted by reclusive46
It was some bar near the Hilton Garden Inn in Missoula. I've never had any issues with anywhere else in Missoula, Helena or even Shelby and Great falls with my ID though. In fact the Pizza Hut in Shelby will even tap Canadian cards (but then pretty much anyone who visits is Canadian haha). I actually don't mind Montana at all, people have generally been fairly friendly, it just seems like a very conservative version of Alberta for the most part. I have more of an issue with Idaho where drivers seem to intentionally cut me off and give me dirty looks when filling up the car.

Haha yeah, it was kind of always the plan and already being Canadian made the process fairly easy (and I luckily moved just before the Ł plummeted). I never really felt at home in the UK despite being raised there. Canada is definatly home now.
That's the conservative "Montana" side of Missoula.

We swapped continents!
AllieKat is offline  
Old May 15, 2017, 4:53 am
  #1443  
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Canada
Programs: BA Gold (OWE), Star Alliance Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,194
Originally Posted by AllieKat
That's the conservative "Montana" side of Missoula.

We swapped continents!
Haha yeah. How you liking the UK?
reclusive46 is offline  
Old May 15, 2017, 5:35 am
  #1444  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,537
Originally Posted by reclusive46
Haha yeah. How you liking the UK?
It's going well. I actually just moved this weekend so that's been tiring. Down in Greenwich now. Long commute but it's a lot nicer than where I was living.
AllieKat is offline  
Old May 15, 2017, 7:56 am
  #1445  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,762
Originally Posted by reclusive46
Lloyds bank in the UK trialed something similar years ago where the credit card was both an AmEx and MasterCard in one. The problem with it was you couldn't select the application (it would always attempt to use AmEx) and some terminals still support the Amex app even though they don't accept AmEx, so It still wouldn't work at those places. It had two magstripes, one at the top and bottom if I recall correctly. It was a very small trial though, only staff in a couple of branches were part if it (and it only had the Amex card details on it for CNP transactions, no mastercard number). The main reason it wasn't released in the end was MasterCard vetoed it and didn't want consumers to think of it as a worse network (as it gave less points when running on MasterCard). Makes me laugh though as they just issued two separate cards on one account, so it had the same effect. I can't imagine AmEx was thrilled by the idea either as merchants wouldn't have seen much point in taking AmEx.

Diners Club cards (non North American cards) used to be dual Diners and MC cards as well but that was before they had chips.
For a while here in the USA, some banks such as the late Marine Midland had one account where you could have a mastercard or a visa or both. Different numbers on the card (you know one starting with 4 and the other starting with 5 obviously) but all charges filtered through the same account. Nobody was really happy about that and ultimately the bank had to make a choice to go with either visa or mastercard. In the same way, many other US banks issued both visas and mastercards and even amex's almost indistinguishably but you as the consumer had to make a choice. But all that has more or less stabilized and most banks I know of have gone in one direction or the other. Chase, for example, has almost eliminated all its mastercards as has Bank of America. Citibank dumped almost all its visa cards and is now predominantly mastercard. Right? Also the non brand Amex's still exist but are fewer in number. But I never heard, at least in the US, of having one account with say a visa and an amex available.
JEFFJAGUAR is offline  
Old May 15, 2017, 9:57 am
  #1446  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SAN
Posts: 1,171
Originally Posted by reclusive46
Makes me laugh though as they just issued two separate cards on one account, so it had the same effect. I can't imagine AmEx was thrilled by the idea either as merchants wouldn't have seen much point in taking AmEx.
They still do this in Australia. NAB issues both Amex and Visa cards for the Virgin Australia/Velocity Frequent Flyer card; the Amex card earns 1.5 points per dollar, while the Visa card earns 0.5 points per dollar.

https://www.nab.com.au/sites/persona...remium-partner

Same deal with Qantas, which has multiple banks issuing partner cards; the ones that issue two cards per account reward at a higher rate for Amex/Diner's Club than Visa/Mastercard:

https://www.qantaspoints.com/earn-po.../card-selector

Since Amex pays the higher rate, the customer will prefer to use Amex over Visa/MC.
Hawaiian717 is offline  
Old May 15, 2017, 10:02 am
  #1447  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
Originally Posted by Hawaiian717
They still do this in Australia. NAB issues both Amex and Visa cards for the Virgin Australia/Velocity Frequent Flyer card; the Amex card earns 1.5 points per dollar, while the Visa card earns 0.5 points per dollar.

https://www.nab.com.au/sites/persona...remium-partner

Same deal with Qantas, which has multiple banks issuing partner cards; the ones that issue two cards per account reward at a higher rate for Amex/Diner's Club than Visa/Mastercard:

https://www.qantaspoints.com/earn-po.../card-selector

Since Amex pays the higher rate, the customer will prefer to use Amex over Visa/MC.
Surcharging for AmEx is pretty common there, no? That seems like it'd eat any rewards over would have gotten.
tmiw is offline  
Old May 15, 2017, 10:46 am
  #1448  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,537
Originally Posted by tmiw
Surcharging for AmEx is pretty common there, no? That seems like it'd eat any rewards over would have gotten.
Absolutely disgusting practice I actually don't understand why Amex lets shops get away with this. Worse, Typo, an Australian chain, does it here in London too. I told them to keep their stuff, left buying nothing, and wrote a one star review on Google Maps. Really that's all we can do since the card networks don't try too hard to enforce their rules.

The stupid​ thing is this hurts them far worse than not taking Amex. Don't take Amex? Fine. I don't like it but your business. Surcharge Amex? No way in heck will I buy from you. Same for credit cards in general. Don't take them? Meh. I'll probably avoid you out of convenience but I won't deliberately not do business with you. Surcharge them? You won't see a penny from me!
AllieKat is offline  
Old May 15, 2017, 11:30 am
  #1449  
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,592
Originally Posted by reclusive46
Haha yeah, it was kind of always the plan and already being Canadian made the process fairly easy (and I luckily moved just before the Ł plummeted). I never really felt at home in the UK despite being raised there. Canada is definatly home now.
Similar story here. Born in England but pretty much raised here. I may go back there or up north later om; I feel the US just isn't where I'm meant to be.
emmanuel_t is offline  
Old May 15, 2017, 11:56 am
  #1450  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,762
From what I've read, and I start up front by saying I've never been there, surcharging on credit cards is quite prevalent in the land of Oz. Regulations were passed a couple of years ago as I remember it allowing surcharges which had originally been prohibited by mastercard and visa merchant agreements. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Now we've had similar stuff here. Of course for years, gasoline stations have surcharged credit cards although calling them cash discounts. If I pay 5˘ or 10˘ a gallon more to use my credit card, I am being surcharged. I don't care what they call it. Of course the distinction between cash discounts and surcharges is murky at best and has been the whole idea behind the federal law suit regarding freedom of speech that was recently argued in the Supreme Court and returned to the district court. Also the Durbin legislation outlawed the practice of mc/visa in supposedly not allowing surcharges and minimums although a few state laws still prohibit surcharges. The only reason surcharging has not caught on here, I think but won't stake what little reputation I have left, is the refusal of the giants like Walmart and Target not to do so and thus forcing mom and pop stores for competitive reasons not to do so at least for now. Of course the gas stations still get away with their surcharges disguised as cash discounts but we've argued that through too. What the future holds, who knows.
JEFFJAGUAR is offline  
Old May 15, 2017, 3:35 pm
  #1451  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
Originally Posted by JEFFJAGUAR
From what I've read, and I start up front by saying I've never been there, surcharging on credit cards is quite prevalent in the land of Oz. Regulations were passed a couple of years ago as I remember it allowing surcharges which had originally been prohibited by mastercard and visa merchant agreements. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Stores aren't allowed to surcharge more than what their actual costs are. And since they're getting their own EU-style interchange caps soon, it might not be worthwhile for most to do so anymore.
tmiw is offline  
Old May 15, 2017, 8:19 pm
  #1452  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: SFO
Programs: *G^2, Bonvoyed, NEXUS
Posts: 3,511
Originally Posted by mikesyr18
Wegmans' payment system...their EMV and contactless system is an industry gold standard compared to the rest of the nation.
Wegmans? Gold standard? Surely you jest.

I am doing some work in the US Northeast, where Wegmans is present. I went today and used the self-checkout. I scanned the groceries, and pressed 'Finish and Pay'.

The terminal said Insert/Swipe and had the Apple Pay and EMVCo Contactless logo.

Attempt 1: Apple Pay, VISA, Canadian card (only qVSDC supported). Phone: Could Not Complete Payment error. Terminal: Card Not Accepted. Use Chip Reader. Then 10 seconds of white screen. Then 10 seconds of black screen. Then Verifone logo for at least a minute. At this point I took the items out of the bag and went to another till.

Attempt 2: Apple Pay, VISA, US card. Phone: Done. Terminal: Chip Card Detected. Use Chip Reader. 10 seconds of white screen before prompting for payment again.

Attempt 3: Apple Pay, AMEX, US card. Phone: Done. Terminal: Processing, Please Wait.... for at least 20 seconds. Then worker comes over and says 'Oh, you have to press this 'Credit/Debit' tender button on the till or it won't actually process'. I ask what happens on the regular tills and they said 'same thing, we have to push 'Card' or else nothing happens'.

If this is the 'gold standard', I'd hate to see what qualifies as silver.

Originally Posted by mikesyr18
You're not supposed to have to wait for the cashier to push a "card" button in order to tap your card... Tap is meant to be quick and the idea is "tap and go."
Yes, 'tap and go', as in 'tap and not have to sign or enter a PIN'. Perhaps you should travel to another contactless-mature country and see how it works according to standards. Judging by your FT handle and the fact that you shop at Wegmans which is concentrated in the US Northeast, a drive to Canada is not that far.

Originally Posted by mikesyr18
Quite frankly I really don't care if someone from a foreign country can't use tap and go at a place like Wegmans while domestic customers can. Foreign shoppers represent less than a small fraction of 1% of their clientele.
That's a brilliant and very welcoming attitude to have. Cheers.
D582 is offline  
Old May 15, 2017, 8:43 pm
  #1453  
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,592
Originally Posted by D582
Wegmans? Gold standard? Surely you jest.

I am doing some work in the US Northeast, where Wegmans is present. I went today and used the self-checkout. I scanned the groceries, and pressed 'Finish and Pay'.

The terminal said Insert/Swipe and had the Apple Pay and EMVCo Contactless logo.

Attempt 1: Apple Pay, VISA, Canadian card (only qVSDC supported). Phone: Could Not Complete Payment error. Terminal: Card Not Accepted. Use Chip Reader. Then 10 seconds of white screen. Then 10 seconds of black screen. Then Verifone logo for at least a minute. At this point I took the items out of the bag and went to another till.

Attempt 2: Apple Pay, VISA, US card. Phone: Done. Terminal: Chip Card Detected. Use Chip Reader. 10 seconds of white screen before prompting for payment again.

Attempt 3: Apple Pay, AMEX, US card. Phone: Done. Terminal: Processing, Please Wait.... for at least 20 seconds. Then worker comes over and says 'Oh, you have to press this 'Credit/Debit' tender button on the till or it won't actually process'. I ask what happens on the regular tills and they said 'same thing, we have to push 'Card' or else nothing happens'.

If this is the 'gold standard', I'd hate to see what qualifies as silver.
Standards-compliant contactless is silver, obviously.
emmanuel_t is offline  
Old May 16, 2017, 12:07 am
  #1454  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
Originally Posted by D582
Attempt 2: Apple Pay, VISA, US card. Phone: Done. Terminal: Chip Card Detected. Use Chip Reader. 10 seconds of white screen before prompting for payment again.
I'm kinda surprised that US cards other than AmEx don't work; you'd think they'd at least test that. Accidentally introduced a bug with a recent update, perhaps?
tmiw is offline  
Old May 16, 2017, 2:33 am
  #1455  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,537
Originally Posted by emmanuel_t
Standards-compliant contactless is silver, obviously.
No way! Given most of their complaints are aimed at one of the few places in America that did everything right, I imagine meeting the standards gets negative points.

Bonus points are obviously awarded for security vulnerabilities and doing things so sketchy foreign issuers decline cards. Insecure implementations also allow paranoid types to turn around and say "look I told you chips and contactless aren't secure!" when they get attacked. Despite the fact that a known insecure implementation was used.

McDonald's seems to be making an effort to fix things worldwide. Used Amex Pay successfully here this morning for a bacon and egg bagel!
AllieKat is offline  


Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.