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USA EMV cards: Availability, Q&A (Chip & PIN or Signature) [2017>]

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Old Jan 16, 2017, 10:23 am
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What is EMV?
EMV is a standard for smart (or integrated-circuit, or chip) cards and the devices that can accept them. The standards are maintained by EMVCo and based on ISO 7816 (or ISO 14443 for contactless).

These cards come in two flavours: contact and contactless. Examples below:
----------------------------------------------------------

Notice the contactless indicator on the right-hand side (it looks like a sideways Wi-Fi symbol). It may also be found on the back of the card (for example, on the back of the new Costco credit card).


Where can I get a chip card?

Hawaiian717 operates a website with crowd-sourced information about various cards. You can adjust the search parameters to see cards with contactless, have PIN-primary authentication, etc.

Which businesses accept chip cards?

tmiw operates a website, also primarily crowd-sourced, that tracks chip-enabled merchants on a map. You can see if a merchant supports PIN, contactless, Quick Chip, et al.

Why doesn't my chip card ask for a PIN?

This is likely because you have a signature-preferring card. At this time, PIN-preferring cards issued in the US are rare. Not many financial institutions offer them; most of them instead provide Chip-and-Signature cards, which are programmed to prefer signature over PIN, if the card supports PIN at all.

What is the difference between Chip-and-Signature and Chip-and-PIN?

To the cardholder, the only major difference is how they authenticate themselves at the point of sale. The cardholder inserts their card as normal; instead of signing a screen or receipt, they will be asked to enter their PIN on the keypad.

[spoiler]

A few financial institutions issue some form of Chip-and-PIN credit cards or prepaid cards. Prepaid EMV cards however are not recommended due to junk fees.

Why no PIN? (cont.)
American debit cards are unique because they are psuedo-PIN-preferring cards. which may work at many automated kiosks. However, bear in mind the word may is used above is a context where there is no absolute certainty of success for certain environments such as automated kiosks due to different natures of offline and online transactions.

What is the difference between Chip-and-Signature and Chip-and-PIN? (cont.)

Most cards issued in the US are programmed to prefer signature, so save very few instances, they will prompt for a signature (unless the merchant sets a signature waiver). A PIN may be necessary in countries with mostly PIN-preferring cards when using unattended terminals (such as pay-at-the-pump or mass transit). If the card has a PIN for backup verification or ATMs, then that PIN should work. Otherwise, the card will be rejected. If the card is rejected, then either a.) the transaction must be performed by an attendant or b.) an alternative payment method will be required.

Some credit union issued credit cards will have this CVM (Cardholder Verification Method) as secondary if Chip-and-Signature cannot be done. Chip-and-PIN is the more prevalent method of authentication used outside the US, especially in transaction environments where no human interaction is needed (i.e. automated gas pumps, toll roads, train kiosks, etc.).

One chip can hold a lot more data, therefore it is capable of doing multiple verification methods. That's one of the great things about EMV over the mag-stripe which can hold very little data.

I want to know for sure what my EMV chip does. Is there anyway I can test out my own EMV card to see what the CVM list is?
alexmt has written up a nice step-by-step procedure on Post #3615.

If most of the EMV cards in the US is the Chip-and-Signature type, doesn't that mean it's still useless abroad?
Depends if you see it as glass half empty or glass half full. See Post #3 for further details on how Chip-and-Signature has worked both successfully and unsuccessfully depending on the merchant transaction environment and use your best judgment whether which one is right for you.


I don't want a chip in my card. I heard horror stories all over the media saying hackers can steal my credit card info from a mile away.


There are two types of chips. One is contactless and the other is contact. Cards can be either one or the other, or both.

In the Google Docs spreadsheet, the cards that are capable of contactless payments are listed seperately under the "RFID or NFC contactless chip" column. If it says yes, then that means it has the ability to do contactless payments. If it says no, it doesn't have that feature.

The one that the media has overhyped about hackers "stealing your information wirelessly" was the contactless type like this:

You are worried about this happening, right?

You don't have to worry. EMV is a chip standard that can have both contact and contactless interfaces. With the traditional contact interface, this means you actually have to physically insert the chip into a POS terminal for it to be authorized, like this:

With the contact interface, nothing is wireless. No data is sent out in a stand-alone contact type EMV chip. With the EMV contactless interface, data is sent wirelessly.

Furthermore, contactless chip cards are required to show a symbol (looks like Wi-Fi symbol) somewhere on the card that to denote its capability as a contactless card. For example, here's an example of a Discover Card with contactless capability (in which Discover calls "Discover ZIP") showing the contactless symbol on the back of the card:

Don't believe everything that the media says. Besides, millions of people all over the world from London to Singapore, uses contactless payments daily in extremely crowded subways and mass transit with nary any problems. There are multiple layers of encrypted securities and keys that are needed to break the code.

Frankly, giving your physical card to a waiter/waitress who takes the card out of your view is much more susceptible to fraud than contactless payments.

Why should I care?
If you are an international traveler, you will want this because majority of the world has or in the process of converting to this payment format.

In fact, in 2012, even North Korea moved to the EMV format, leaving the US as one of the countries in the world that hasn't done so.

In addition, VISA, MC, AMEX, and Discover have all agreed to incentivize the USA shifting to EMV payments by 2015 by shifting liability for fraudulent transactions to merchants if they do not have EMV equipment and the cardholder has an EMV card. So if you travel internationally or would like to get one before the others, you might be interested in getting one.


BS! I had no problems using my card in [insert whereever country], [insert whatever point in time]
If you stick to the tourist path where they have lots of visitors from the US, you should have no problems using your mag-stripe only card in hotels and restaurants, at least for now. But as things can change as things go forward.

However, consider that once you start taking the off-beaten path, go to non-touristy places where they are not familiar with mag-stripes, rent a car and use toll roads, fill up gas, or try to buy train tickets you might end up into a trouble of the machine not recognizing your card because it lacks the chip. Furthermore, a lot of toll roads, gas pumps, and automated ticket machines lack any human assistance to help you when you need it the most.

But [insert credit card company] told me all merchants that display their logo must accept them! All I have to do is report them for violating their agreements, right?
There are several factors against this.

1. You can only speak English. The merchant representative, most likely a part-time clerk earning minimum wage, speaks in a different language, let's say French. If you have no French language skills, how are you going to get your point across? Are you going to whip out your cell phone at exorbitant int'l roaming charges and hope the customer service is going to translate it for you on the spot? Or maybe you might actually know French. But how about Swahili, Farsi, Balinese, or the multiple languages in mainland China?

2. Just like US, the rest of the world's businesses uses part-time minimum wage workers as cashiers to cut down on labor costs. Most of their SOP training manuals are written by MBA types to not to do anything they are not familiar with. Do not expect them to understand the intricate details of credit card mumbo jumbo. You don't expect Taco Bell employees to understand the minute details of Discover-JCB-Union Pay agreements, right? Same thing the other way around: be respectful as a guest in their country, prepare in advance in their ways, avoid being an "ugly American" stereotype.

3. You are a guest in their country. You are a minority. If 99.9% of their country's people and other tourists from around the world uses EMV, do you really think they are going to accomodate the 0.1% of American tourists who only have mag-stripes credit cards?

4. Again, you are a guest in their country. How would you, as an American standing in line, react if a Chinese tourist was clogging up the lines at a local Taco Bell because the clerk doesn't understand the Discover-Union Pay agreement and has trouble communicating between Mandarin spoken by the tourist and English spoken by the Taco Bell clerk? Same way the other way around. You do not want to clog up the lines for everyone. The less hassle, the better.

5. VISA and MC make tons of money from merchants in that country. Say SNCF French Rail. It's a billion dollar company in France. Do you think VISA is going to pull the plug of their relationship with SNCF because SNCF refuses to do mag-stripe processing at their unmanned train station kiosk? Of course not. Be realistic.

6. And lastly, if you're up against an unstaffed toll kiosk, gas pump or train ticket machine, are you going to yell curses at the machine?

But I want my credit card to be able to be used in the US too!
No worries. They have not gotten rid of the mag-stripe on the back of the card for backward compatibility reasons, just like we still have embossed numbers on our cards for backwards compatibility to using those old carbon copy imprinters.

[insert own Hyatt card image front and back together with red arrows pointing to all the backward compatibility features]

You use the chip on the front of the card abroad (for now), and the mag-stripe just like any other card for the US. Basically, you're increasing your credit card's acceptance rate by getting a card that both via the chip and the mag-stripe. You're getting a better deal for free.

And when 2015 comes along and US switches to EMV, you'll be way ahead of everyone else too!


So why did the rest of the world and the US moved/moving toward EMV?
Primarily, due to fraud concerns. You see, the mag-stripe has been with us since the 1950s. It may have been the most high tech thing back in the day, but with the technology that is available today, any shmo can pick up a $100 USB magnetic card skimming device off of eBay and get your credit card info.

And unlike skimming off contactless cards which actually need the person to have l33t programming skills, skimming off a magnetic stripe has become so ubiquitous that nary a day goes about skimming fraud going on somewhere in America, from gas pumps, Michael's stores (2011), Target breaches (2013), restaurant waiters/waitresses, to even McDonald's drive thrus.

https://www.google.com/search?q=skimming+fraud

These type of fraud used to be prevalent in Europe. But once they started switching over to EMV starting over 2 decades ago, this type of fraud went elsewhere. It went over to Asia, Canada and Mexico, Latin America, etc. etc. until they too began implementing EMV to combat skimming fraud. The US is practically the only country left that hasn't done so, therefore all the fraud that used to take place elsewhere is now happening here.


But EMV is old and it's not fool proof. Shouldn't we just skip over it and do something new instead?
Yes, EMV is old. It was developed in the 1990s, and its smart card payment predecessor was first introduced in France. But as of today, it has become the de-facto global standard of payments.

But then, what else is there? There is no other de facto global standard of payments alternative. For example, if we decide to skip over it and do something new, hypothetically like DNA matching technology, it still means US int'l travelers will continue to have problems abroad with useless plastic acceptance because no other country is using this DNA matching technology except the US.

Besides, nothing is fool proof. You can say that the bank vault isn't fool proof because you can crack it open if enough C4 is used. But your average low-life scumbag isn't likely to get military grade C4 easily either. But the bank vault does make it harder to get the bank's money over say a petty cash box. That's the point here. EMV is akin to a security tight bank vault, the old mag-stripe is akin to a petty cash box lying around inside the drawer.


I'm a business owner and I don't think EMV is going to take off. I'm not going to spend extra hundreds of dollars to upgrade my credit card machine. Convince me other wise why I should.
I can understand the added extra cost to your business once this switchover takes place. But before even saying that, look at your existing POS terminal. Does it have a slot somewhere to insert a card?

Most likely, if you had replaced your POS terminal within the past five years, you already have an EMV capable terminal. EMV is basically just not turned on yet from the processor and acquirer side.

If you have an EMV capable terminal, then a best bet would be to contact your acquirer to have the EMV feature turned on. You did your end of the deal already by having an EMV capable terminal, it is now the acquirers' responsibility to turn it on in accordance to the EMV switchover mandate.

And if you don't, you are going to replace your POS terminal anyway from common wear and tear. It isn't a hard switch-over. You can continue to use your POS terminal until it dies out because EMV cardholders will still have the mag-stripe on the back. And by the time your non-EMV capable POS terminal is up for replacement the market will be full with these newer POS terminals that can accept the mag-stripe, EMV, as well as contactless payments.

In addition, you may also want to check with your acquirer or processor about EMV capable terminals. Some of them are willing to replace your terminal for free in preparation for the US EMV switchover. Call and ask for details.


But what's in it for me? I'm the one that has to pay for the upgrade.
All the major card networks have given incentives for merchants for the upcoming EMV switchover.

If 75% or more of your credit card transactions are done on an EMV contact and contactless terminal, they are going to waive your annual PCI-DSS fees, which usually costs you around $5.00-$19.95/month per terminal. The overall long term cost savings of those compliance fees will be larger than the cost of an one time upgrade for the terminal.

The downside is that once EMV switchover happens and if you do not have a POS terminal that is able to accept EMV, the fraud liability shifts over to the merchant.
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USA EMV cards: Availability, Q&A (Chip & PIN or Signature) [2017>]

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Old Jan 22, 2021, 11:47 am
  #6346  
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Originally Posted by wesmills
For what it's worth, Spokane Teachers Credit Union has also told me that the PIN feature has been removed from their cards as well. Only First Tech cards, out of the issuers I have (had?), continue to be PIN primary even on new cards. (To test, I had one of my First Tech cards replaced and it now has an expiration date in 2024 but the same PIN-preferring CVM list as the old card.)
So far, I feel like I've lucked out in that I haven't lost PIN preference on any of my cards' contact interfaces when they've gotten contactless. The closest I've gotten is UNFCU switching from offline to online PIN, but that ended up being a plus in that I'm still able to see if PIN is supported on the contactless interface (unlike only being able to do so on e.g. gas pumps with my Diners Club MC).

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if my next replacement for my Andrews FCU card is no longer PIN preferring (since I think they're serviced by the same company as SDFCU).
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Old Jan 22, 2021, 9:22 pm
  #6347  
 
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Originally Posted by tmiw
That said, I wouldn't be surprised if my next replacement for my Andrews FCU card is no longer PIN preferring (since I think they're serviced by the same company as SDFCU).
It seems like the credit card companies (especially Visa) really hate PIN and want it to go away. They think contactless will be its replacement. My SDFCU card is valid through 3/23 and I'm going to try holding onto it as long as possible because I suspect any replacement card will be signature only plus contactless.
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Old Jan 23, 2021, 10:40 am
  #6348  
 
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Originally Posted by LoveClassicMusic0205
It seems like the credit card companies (especially Visa) really hate PIN and want it to go away. They think contactless will be its replacement. My SDFCU card is valid through 3/23 and I'm going to try holding onto it as long as possible because I suspect any replacement card will be signature only plus contactless.
Ditto, 7/23 here.
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Old Jan 23, 2021, 11:30 am
  #6349  
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Originally Posted by LoveClassicMusic0205
It seems like the credit card companies (especially Visa) really hate PIN and want it to go away. They think contactless will be its replacement. My SDFCU card is valid through 3/23 and I'm going to try holding onto it as long as possible because I suspect any replacement card will be signature only plus contactless.
I wouldn't cal lit "hate", but there are considerations that need to be kept in mind (by virtue of the particular quirks of the US market) if one wants to keep PIN around. Those might not even be a huge deal for some issuers (like UNFCU), so some may keep it around for quite a while.
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Old Jan 25, 2021, 9:50 pm
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Originally Posted by tmiw
So far, I feel like I've lucked out in that I haven't lost PIN preference on any of my cards' contact interfaces when they've gotten contactless. The closest I've gotten is UNFCU switching from offline to online PIN
...
That said, I wouldn't be surprised if my next replacement for my Andrews FCU card is no longer PIN preferring (since I think they're serviced by the same company as SDFCU).
Does your new UNFCU card still support offline PIN, too? It's been a while since I've gotten to try, but train kiosks in Japan had issues as recently as 2019 not being able to accept my BoA card with an online PIN. AMEX, intriguingly, did work with the cash advance PIN.

I'd definitely like to keep a PIN-preferring card with offline PIN since that still seems to be the best combination in Japan, and am likewise worried that AFCU cards might lose that. What's the best option if I wanted to get a backup offline PIN-preferring card at this point? First Tech perhaps?

PS: Bonus points if anyone can recommend a US-issued card that also supports 3D Secure.
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Old Jan 25, 2021, 11:57 pm
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Originally Posted by scout7
I'd definitely like to keep a PIN-preferring card with offline PIN since that still seems to be the best combination in Japan, and am likewise worried that AFCU cards might lose that. What's the best option if I wanted to get a backup offline PIN-preferring card at this point? First Tech perhaps?
From the looks of it, First Tech is the only broad-based card left that supports offline PIN. The CVM list on the card I had replaced in late 2020 is the same as it's always been: online PIN; encrypted offline PIN; plaintext offline PIN; signature.

I wonder how I can tell them I like this feature and appreciate their keeping it around...
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Old Jan 26, 2021, 1:17 am
  #6352  
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Originally Posted by scout7
Does your new UNFCU card still support offline PIN, too? It's been a while since I've gotten to try, but train kiosks in Japan had issues as recently as 2019 not being able to accept my BoA card with an online PIN. AMEX, intriguingly, did work with the cash advance PIN.
Online PIN only, but at least it prefers it over signature (even with contactless, so potentially useful in places like Australia). The downside of the latter, though, is that a fair number of stores in the US treat all contactless transactions as high valued ones (unavoidable without disabling pre-tap due to Quick Chip) and thus ask for PIN, whereas typical US cards tap without signature regardless. Of course, this behavior was pre-pandemic; it's very possible merchant PIN support in general has decreased further in the interest of "safety" and all.

As for Japan, it's very possible it's significantly better now given that the Olympics were supposed to have happened last year (and given that Visa is a sponsor, they likely really didn't want acceptance issues during the event). If for no other reason, because of increased contactless acceptance making insertion less likely to be needed.

Originally Posted by scout7
PS: Bonus points if anyone can recommend a US-issued card that also supports 3D Secure.
3D Secure support seems to have improved over the last year or so. AmEx, for instance, seems to do it now (YMMV of course) as well as Diners Club/BMO Harris (unfortunately still not open to new cardholders and likely never will be). I'm also fairly sure UNFCU supports it too but I've never tried.

That said, I may be a bad person to ask as I've never really had 3D Secure problems, even with Chase's "let all transactions through without authentication" implementation (at least with my CSR; I feel like I've had issues with other Chase cards before, but the sites that need 3D Secure are also typically the ones that would cause FTFs to be charged on those cards. )
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Old Jan 27, 2021, 12:26 am
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Originally Posted by scout7
PS: Bonus points if anyone can recommend a US-issued card that also supports 3D Secure.
It's been a while since it's so rarely used by US merchants, but I'm pretty sure I've had 3D Secure work with Wells Fargo cards.
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Old Jan 27, 2021, 2:14 am
  #6354  
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FWIW, I seem to remember that apple.com supported 3D Secure, so I tried using my UNFCU card tonight on it and I didn't see any 3D Secure prompts at all once I submitted the order. That may not mean much, though, since Apple could very well be using a risk-based model to determine whether to route transactions through it.

Then again, I can't seem to find anything mentioning 3D Secure or Verified by Visa on UNFCU's site anymore, either. I also seem to remember seeing references to the latter there, so I'm beginning to wonder if they did in fact stop supporting it.
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Old Feb 1, 2021, 1:44 am
  #6355  
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Originally Posted by tmiw
So yeah, turns out that the Circle K I previously mentioned doesn't have EMV outside at the moment. Contactless (outside; not sure about inside) did get disabled, though, but maybe it'll turn back on again once EMV does.
And now it does. While they didn't disable (offline) PIN support, they still ask for ZIP code (prior to the PIN prompt). I would get why they'd have done the latter if PIN was fully disabled (like Shell) or only done for signature/no CVM preferring cards but asking for ZIP code and then immediately asking for PIN afterward seems like overkill. Quick Chip with a $200 cryptogram amount, too, per the transaction log.

BTW, outside contactless still seems to be MSD only by virtue of getting a "debit yes/no" prompt after tapping, but to rule out lack of online PIN support I'll try inserting my UNFCU card (without offline PIN support) next time to see if I'm prompted for one.
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Old Feb 8, 2021, 11:03 am
  #6356  
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The Chevron here that uses Verifone POS inside apparently really wants people to know they accept EMV outside now.



(I count three different things on the pump indicating such.)

Anyway, it's still MSD only inside and outside though. Or at least they don't print out EMV info on the receipt, anyway.
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Old Feb 11, 2021, 5:25 pm
  #6357  
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I found another Chevron station with EMV enabled at the pump the other day. An interesting twist is that the car wash prompt came up after finishing pumping--with others, it'd come up before letting me put the pump into the car. These ones did support PIN, too, but no ZIP code prompt; I'm not sure I would have been asked had I inserted a signature-preferring/only card.

BTW, the cryptogram amount in the transaction log was $1 for the inserted transaction. (I tried contactless with the same card immediately afterward and it seemed to run MSD-only, despite EMV contactless working inside.)
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Old Mar 1, 2021, 1:17 am
  #6358  
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So apparently, ZIP code entry is being treated as a CVM on gas receipts. Take this receipt today from an area 76 station, for instance:



(PIN wasn't prompted for on a PIN preferring card, BTW, so ZIP code entry sadly wasn't exactly unexpected. I kinda wish I had a non-US issued card so I could see if EMV enabled pumps here can actually skip that prompt for those. Maybe someone else with one can see if that's the case?)

Anyway, I went to several other area gas stations as well. Pilot was still swipe only as was the 7-Eleven down the street from it. However, the 7-Eleven also had newer pumps, but this time with a horizontal reader instead of a vertical one as I had seen before:



That, along with the Gilbarco using 7-Eleven that actuallyis enabled, makes me think that they're going to focus mainly on their app for gas payments. They're in good company, though, because I get the feeling that 76 and ExxonMobil (and maybe Shell to a lesser extent) don't really care that much about implementing any standards other than contact EMV outside.
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Old Mar 4, 2021, 11:50 am
  #6359  
 
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Would anyone have the Cardpeek information for Bethpage Federal Credit Union's credit cards? I heard they were true Chip and PIN with PIN priority and I was looking to get a secondary no annual/foreign transaction fee PIN priority card.
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Old Mar 5, 2021, 3:50 pm
  #6360  
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Looks like I'm finally seeing Sinclair stations get EMV at the pump. So far, I've seen it at the one that recently converted from Arco (Gilbarco pumps); there's no credit PIN support but it does ask for ZIP code after removal, which seems to be increasingly typical for the gas stations around here. Contactless is still MSD only outside, too ("Contactless MSR" on the receipt). Not sure if locations using Wayne pumps have it too but that might be worth a look.

Unfortunately, the Wayne station and the new Gilbarco station are the only Sinclair ones around here that even have the hardware outside that I know of. Last time I tried to check others (admittedly a while ago), the rest were all seemingly still using older pumps/readers.

Originally Posted by KevinW23
Would anyone have the Cardpeek information for Bethpage Federal Credit Union's credit cards? I heard they were true Chip and PIN with PIN priority and I was looking to get a secondary no annual/foreign transaction fee PIN priority card.
How did you hear that, BTW?

Anyway, to answer your question, I have no idea. However, if you're willing to become a member and burn an inquiry on it, there are worse cards one could get. For instance, no FTF on most of their lineup is pretty nice, though there are definitely ones with better rewards. Keep in mind, though, that assuming it is in fact PIN preferring, you very well might not be asked all that often in the US by virtue of many merchants simply not supporting it at the hardware level (or have it explicitly disabled due to "customer experience" and/or health concerns).
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