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USA EMV cards: Availability, Q&A (Chip & PIN or Signature) [2017>]

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Old Jan 16, 2017, 10:23 am
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What is EMV?
EMV is a standard for smart (or integrated-circuit, or chip) cards and the devices that can accept them. The standards are maintained by EMVCo and based on ISO 7816 (or ISO 14443 for contactless).

These cards come in two flavours: contact and contactless. Examples below:
----------------------------------------------------------

Notice the contactless indicator on the right-hand side (it looks like a sideways Wi-Fi symbol). It may also be found on the back of the card (for example, on the back of the new Costco credit card).


Where can I get a chip card?

Hawaiian717 operates a website with crowd-sourced information about various cards. You can adjust the search parameters to see cards with contactless, have PIN-primary authentication, etc.

Which businesses accept chip cards?

tmiw operates a website, also primarily crowd-sourced, that tracks chip-enabled merchants on a map. You can see if a merchant supports PIN, contactless, Quick Chip, et al.

Why doesn't my chip card ask for a PIN?

This is likely because you have a signature-preferring card. At this time, PIN-preferring cards issued in the US are rare. Not many financial institutions offer them; most of them instead provide Chip-and-Signature cards, which are programmed to prefer signature over PIN, if the card supports PIN at all.

What is the difference between Chip-and-Signature and Chip-and-PIN?

To the cardholder, the only major difference is how they authenticate themselves at the point of sale. The cardholder inserts their card as normal; instead of signing a screen or receipt, they will be asked to enter their PIN on the keypad.

[spoiler]

A few financial institutions issue some form of Chip-and-PIN credit cards or prepaid cards. Prepaid EMV cards however are not recommended due to junk fees.

Why no PIN? (cont.)
American debit cards are unique because they are psuedo-PIN-preferring cards. which may work at many automated kiosks. However, bear in mind the word may is used above is a context where there is no absolute certainty of success for certain environments such as automated kiosks due to different natures of offline and online transactions.

What is the difference between Chip-and-Signature and Chip-and-PIN? (cont.)

Most cards issued in the US are programmed to prefer signature, so save very few instances, they will prompt for a signature (unless the merchant sets a signature waiver). A PIN may be necessary in countries with mostly PIN-preferring cards when using unattended terminals (such as pay-at-the-pump or mass transit). If the card has a PIN for backup verification or ATMs, then that PIN should work. Otherwise, the card will be rejected. If the card is rejected, then either a.) the transaction must be performed by an attendant or b.) an alternative payment method will be required.

Some credit union issued credit cards will have this CVM (Cardholder Verification Method) as secondary if Chip-and-Signature cannot be done. Chip-and-PIN is the more prevalent method of authentication used outside the US, especially in transaction environments where no human interaction is needed (i.e. automated gas pumps, toll roads, train kiosks, etc.).

One chip can hold a lot more data, therefore it is capable of doing multiple verification methods. That's one of the great things about EMV over the mag-stripe which can hold very little data.

I want to know for sure what my EMV chip does. Is there anyway I can test out my own EMV card to see what the CVM list is?
alexmt has written up a nice step-by-step procedure on Post #3615.

If most of the EMV cards in the US is the Chip-and-Signature type, doesn't that mean it's still useless abroad?
Depends if you see it as glass half empty or glass half full. See Post #3 for further details on how Chip-and-Signature has worked both successfully and unsuccessfully depending on the merchant transaction environment and use your best judgment whether which one is right for you.


I don't want a chip in my card. I heard horror stories all over the media saying hackers can steal my credit card info from a mile away.


There are two types of chips. One is contactless and the other is contact. Cards can be either one or the other, or both.

In the Google Docs spreadsheet, the cards that are capable of contactless payments are listed seperately under the "RFID or NFC contactless chip" column. If it says yes, then that means it has the ability to do contactless payments. If it says no, it doesn't have that feature.

The one that the media has overhyped about hackers "stealing your information wirelessly" was the contactless type like this:

You are worried about this happening, right?

You don't have to worry. EMV is a chip standard that can have both contact and contactless interfaces. With the traditional contact interface, this means you actually have to physically insert the chip into a POS terminal for it to be authorized, like this:

With the contact interface, nothing is wireless. No data is sent out in a stand-alone contact type EMV chip. With the EMV contactless interface, data is sent wirelessly.

Furthermore, contactless chip cards are required to show a symbol (looks like Wi-Fi symbol) somewhere on the card that to denote its capability as a contactless card. For example, here's an example of a Discover Card with contactless capability (in which Discover calls "Discover ZIP") showing the contactless symbol on the back of the card:

Don't believe everything that the media says. Besides, millions of people all over the world from London to Singapore, uses contactless payments daily in extremely crowded subways and mass transit with nary any problems. There are multiple layers of encrypted securities and keys that are needed to break the code.

Frankly, giving your physical card to a waiter/waitress who takes the card out of your view is much more susceptible to fraud than contactless payments.

Why should I care?
If you are an international traveler, you will want this because majority of the world has or in the process of converting to this payment format.

In fact, in 2012, even North Korea moved to the EMV format, leaving the US as one of the countries in the world that hasn't done so.

In addition, VISA, MC, AMEX, and Discover have all agreed to incentivize the USA shifting to EMV payments by 2015 by shifting liability for fraudulent transactions to merchants if they do not have EMV equipment and the cardholder has an EMV card. So if you travel internationally or would like to get one before the others, you might be interested in getting one.


BS! I had no problems using my card in [insert whereever country], [insert whatever point in time]
If you stick to the tourist path where they have lots of visitors from the US, you should have no problems using your mag-stripe only card in hotels and restaurants, at least for now. But as things can change as things go forward.

However, consider that once you start taking the off-beaten path, go to non-touristy places where they are not familiar with mag-stripes, rent a car and use toll roads, fill up gas, or try to buy train tickets you might end up into a trouble of the machine not recognizing your card because it lacks the chip. Furthermore, a lot of toll roads, gas pumps, and automated ticket machines lack any human assistance to help you when you need it the most.

But [insert credit card company] told me all merchants that display their logo must accept them! All I have to do is report them for violating their agreements, right?
There are several factors against this.

1. You can only speak English. The merchant representative, most likely a part-time clerk earning minimum wage, speaks in a different language, let's say French. If you have no French language skills, how are you going to get your point across? Are you going to whip out your cell phone at exorbitant int'l roaming charges and hope the customer service is going to translate it for you on the spot? Or maybe you might actually know French. But how about Swahili, Farsi, Balinese, or the multiple languages in mainland China?

2. Just like US, the rest of the world's businesses uses part-time minimum wage workers as cashiers to cut down on labor costs. Most of their SOP training manuals are written by MBA types to not to do anything they are not familiar with. Do not expect them to understand the intricate details of credit card mumbo jumbo. You don't expect Taco Bell employees to understand the minute details of Discover-JCB-Union Pay agreements, right? Same thing the other way around: be respectful as a guest in their country, prepare in advance in their ways, avoid being an "ugly American" stereotype.

3. You are a guest in their country. You are a minority. If 99.9% of their country's people and other tourists from around the world uses EMV, do you really think they are going to accomodate the 0.1% of American tourists who only have mag-stripes credit cards?

4. Again, you are a guest in their country. How would you, as an American standing in line, react if a Chinese tourist was clogging up the lines at a local Taco Bell because the clerk doesn't understand the Discover-Union Pay agreement and has trouble communicating between Mandarin spoken by the tourist and English spoken by the Taco Bell clerk? Same way the other way around. You do not want to clog up the lines for everyone. The less hassle, the better.

5. VISA and MC make tons of money from merchants in that country. Say SNCF French Rail. It's a billion dollar company in France. Do you think VISA is going to pull the plug of their relationship with SNCF because SNCF refuses to do mag-stripe processing at their unmanned train station kiosk? Of course not. Be realistic.

6. And lastly, if you're up against an unstaffed toll kiosk, gas pump or train ticket machine, are you going to yell curses at the machine?

But I want my credit card to be able to be used in the US too!
No worries. They have not gotten rid of the mag-stripe on the back of the card for backward compatibility reasons, just like we still have embossed numbers on our cards for backwards compatibility to using those old carbon copy imprinters.

[insert own Hyatt card image front and back together with red arrows pointing to all the backward compatibility features]

You use the chip on the front of the card abroad (for now), and the mag-stripe just like any other card for the US. Basically, you're increasing your credit card's acceptance rate by getting a card that both via the chip and the mag-stripe. You're getting a better deal for free.

And when 2015 comes along and US switches to EMV, you'll be way ahead of everyone else too!


So why did the rest of the world and the US moved/moving toward EMV?
Primarily, due to fraud concerns. You see, the mag-stripe has been with us since the 1950s. It may have been the most high tech thing back in the day, but with the technology that is available today, any shmo can pick up a $100 USB magnetic card skimming device off of eBay and get your credit card info.

And unlike skimming off contactless cards which actually need the person to have l33t programming skills, skimming off a magnetic stripe has become so ubiquitous that nary a day goes about skimming fraud going on somewhere in America, from gas pumps, Michael's stores (2011), Target breaches (2013), restaurant waiters/waitresses, to even McDonald's drive thrus.

https://www.google.com/search?q=skimming+fraud

These type of fraud used to be prevalent in Europe. But once they started switching over to EMV starting over 2 decades ago, this type of fraud went elsewhere. It went over to Asia, Canada and Mexico, Latin America, etc. etc. until they too began implementing EMV to combat skimming fraud. The US is practically the only country left that hasn't done so, therefore all the fraud that used to take place elsewhere is now happening here.


But EMV is old and it's not fool proof. Shouldn't we just skip over it and do something new instead?
Yes, EMV is old. It was developed in the 1990s, and its smart card payment predecessor was first introduced in France. But as of today, it has become the de-facto global standard of payments.

But then, what else is there? There is no other de facto global standard of payments alternative. For example, if we decide to skip over it and do something new, hypothetically like DNA matching technology, it still means US int'l travelers will continue to have problems abroad with useless plastic acceptance because no other country is using this DNA matching technology except the US.

Besides, nothing is fool proof. You can say that the bank vault isn't fool proof because you can crack it open if enough C4 is used. But your average low-life scumbag isn't likely to get military grade C4 easily either. But the bank vault does make it harder to get the bank's money over say a petty cash box. That's the point here. EMV is akin to a security tight bank vault, the old mag-stripe is akin to a petty cash box lying around inside the drawer.


I'm a business owner and I don't think EMV is going to take off. I'm not going to spend extra hundreds of dollars to upgrade my credit card machine. Convince me other wise why I should.
I can understand the added extra cost to your business once this switchover takes place. But before even saying that, look at your existing POS terminal. Does it have a slot somewhere to insert a card?

Most likely, if you had replaced your POS terminal within the past five years, you already have an EMV capable terminal. EMV is basically just not turned on yet from the processor and acquirer side.

If you have an EMV capable terminal, then a best bet would be to contact your acquirer to have the EMV feature turned on. You did your end of the deal already by having an EMV capable terminal, it is now the acquirers' responsibility to turn it on in accordance to the EMV switchover mandate.

And if you don't, you are going to replace your POS terminal anyway from common wear and tear. It isn't a hard switch-over. You can continue to use your POS terminal until it dies out because EMV cardholders will still have the mag-stripe on the back. And by the time your non-EMV capable POS terminal is up for replacement the market will be full with these newer POS terminals that can accept the mag-stripe, EMV, as well as contactless payments.

In addition, you may also want to check with your acquirer or processor about EMV capable terminals. Some of them are willing to replace your terminal for free in preparation for the US EMV switchover. Call and ask for details.


But what's in it for me? I'm the one that has to pay for the upgrade.
All the major card networks have given incentives for merchants for the upcoming EMV switchover.

If 75% or more of your credit card transactions are done on an EMV contact and contactless terminal, they are going to waive your annual PCI-DSS fees, which usually costs you around $5.00-$19.95/month per terminal. The overall long term cost savings of those compliance fees will be larger than the cost of an one time upgrade for the terminal.

The downside is that once EMV switchover happens and if you do not have a POS terminal that is able to accept EMV, the fraud liability shifts over to the merchant.
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USA EMV cards: Availability, Q&A (Chip & PIN or Signature) [2017>]

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Old Dec 19, 2019, 5:52 pm
  #5851  
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Add Wawa to the list of places that were hacked despite having EMV inside: https://www.theverge.com/2019/12/19/...card-info-leak

So...when will P2PE become mandatory? And since PINs weren't stolen, will we also start getting stronger calls to make those mandatory?

Originally Posted by LoveClassicMusic0205
Are you sure about that? Kroger uses Quick Chip in the stores, but definitely not at the pumps. I'm not sure what they do in the payment booth at the station.
Oh right, I forgot that the behavior is slightly different. They could still be using their own system but it might not be as simple as it was for Safeway (and possibly could be limited in what they could implement for gas too).
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Old Dec 19, 2019, 8:49 pm
  #5852  
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Not familiar with the Wawa chain but it sounds like they have a lot of gas pump readers still on mag stripe?

https://arstechnica.com/information-...hs/?comments=1

The malware collected payment card numbers, expiration dates, and cardholder names from payment cards used at "potentially all Wawa in-store payment terminals and fuel dispensers." The advisory didn't say how many customers or cards were affected. The malware didn't access debit card PINs, credit card CVV2 numbers, or driver license data used to verify age-restricted purchases. Information processed by in-store ATMs was also not affected. The company has hired an outside forensics firm to investigate the infection.
Would EMV contain credit card numbers, expiration dates and cardholder names?

What's more, are POS systems able to store that data?

If you're using the card at the pump, there would be no way for them to get your name would there?

Or on any POS system, would they be able to get your name off the magstripe or the EMV? The store would need the card number and expiration date. But would it get the card holder name? Presumably it contains the billing zip code for the card readers at the pumps to work.

Sounds like the chain was storing that data of anyone who used the card at the stores. So unless the card holder name was embedded in the mag stripe or the EMV, it would seem they would need another way to record the cardholder name?

Some stores used to ask you for your phone number and email. I think Radio Shack used to try to get you to enter your phone number when you bought something.

Maybe they were retaining card number, expiration and account holder name as backup or something in case the transactions didn't go through?
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Old Dec 20, 2019, 12:08 am
  #5853  
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Originally Posted by wco81
Would EMV contain credit card numbers, expiration dates and cardholder names?

What's more, are POS systems able to store that data?

If you're using the card at the pump, there would be no way for them to get your name would there?

Or on any POS system, would they be able to get your name off the magstripe or the EMV? The store would need the card number and expiration date. But would it get the card holder name? Presumably it contains the billing zip code for the card readers at the pumps to work.

Sounds like the chain was storing that data of anyone who used the card at the stores. So unless the card holder name was embedded in the mag stripe or the EMV, it would seem they would need another way to record the cardholder name?

Some stores used to ask you for your phone number and email. I think Radio Shack used to try to get you to enter your phone number when you bought something.

Maybe they were retaining card number, expiration and account holder name as backup or something in case the transactions didn't go through?
No need for the merchant to store the data if you're just scraping it as it goes to the payment processor. Same as what's happened at a lot of other breaches.

BTW, EMV does have the cardholder name (except over contactless) and PAN/expiration.
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Old Dec 20, 2019, 7:02 am
  #5854  
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Originally Posted by tmiw
No need for the merchant to store the data if you're just scraping it as it goes to the payment processor. Same as what's happened at a lot of other breaches.

BTW, EMV does have the cardholder name (except over contactless) and PAN/expiration.
Another great reason to use Contactless- your name doesn't print on the receipt or store in the retailer's system.

Biggest one who prints names on receipts around here is Maverik (with pay at the pump/swipe card) as well as a lot of restaurants using Micros or Aloha POS (also swipe cards). Not many other merchants on EMV seem to do that anymore, but I think there may be some that do. I can't think of any offhand.
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Old Dec 20, 2019, 9:04 am
  #5855  
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Originally Posted by storewanderer
Not many other merchants on EMV seem to do that anymore, but I think there may be some that do. I can't think of any offhand.
Fry's Electronics does offhand but they're probably going under soon anyway.
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Old Dec 20, 2019, 9:30 am
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Originally Posted by storewanderer
Another great reason to use Contactless- your name doesn't print on the receipt or store in the retailer's system.

Biggest one who prints names on receipts around here is Maverik (with pay at the pump/swipe card) as well as a lot of restaurants using Micros or Aloha POS (also swipe cards). Not many other merchants on EMV seem to do that anymore, but I think there may be some that do. I can't think of any offhand.
I heard restaurants do it to be more “personable”...I hate it.
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Old Dec 20, 2019, 11:59 am
  #5857  
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According to the Federal Reserve, use of PIN in the US went up a bit since we got EMV:

Chip-authenticated card payments in the United States do not generally require the entry of a PIN, although many chip cards support entry of a PIN while using the chip. Increased use of either chips or PINs separately can increase the security of card payments, while the use of a chip and PIN together can further reduce the risk of third-party payments fraud. In fact, the data show that in-person card payments in the United States have involved not only increasing use of chips but also both rising use of PINs and rising use of chips and PINs together. In particular, 26.3 billion in-person card payments were based on PIN authentication in 2018, compared with 16.9 billion in 2015, an increase of 9.4 billion over the three-year period. PIN authenticated payments constituted 30.6 percent of all in-person card payments in 2018, up from 23.2 percent in 2015 (figure 6). Moreover, 17.8 billion in-person card payments, constituting 20.7 percent of all in-person card payments in 2018, involved the use of a chip and PIN together, compared to just 135 million and a negligible percent in 2015.
Unfortunately the report doesn't specify any further details, so I wouldn't be surprised if the vast majority of the increase was due to debit routing being forced by some merchants rather than there being more PIN preferring cards than expected.
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Old Dec 20, 2019, 11:04 pm
  #5858  
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Originally Posted by tmiw
Fry's Electronics does offhand but they're probably going under soon anyway.
We can also add Jo-Ann Fabrics to the EMV merchants that print your name on the receipt and do NOT support Contactless.

Something in the water in Ohio that is anti Contactless? Wendys, Kroger, Jo-Ann...
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Old Dec 20, 2019, 11:06 pm
  #5859  
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Originally Posted by tmiw
According to the Federal Reserve, use of PIN in the US went up a bit since we got EMV:



Unfortunately the report doesn't specify any further details, so I wouldn't be surprised if the vast majority of the increase was due to debit routing being forced by some merchants rather than there being more PIN preferring cards than expected.
Well with Apple Pay and Android Pay being "verified by PIN" at certain merchants there is that too. Also add to it various government and corporate credit cards that are mandated PIN entry cards. Add to it that now when people come to the US and use an international card, it was being swiped before and now it is going Chip and PIN as well.

As we see more tourist heavy destinations like Disney get EMV enabled, those stats will only rise more.
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Old Dec 21, 2019, 10:20 am
  #5860  
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Originally Posted by storewanderer
Well with Apple Pay and Android Pay being "verified by PIN" at certain merchants there is that too. Also add to it various government and corporate credit cards that are mandated PIN entry cards. Add to it that now when people come to the US and use an international card, it was being swiped before and now it is going Chip and PIN as well.

As we see more tourist heavy destinations like Disney get EMV enabled, those stats will only rise more.
Mobile wallets aren't really "verified by PIN", though. Some of the EMV contactless kernels might be reusing PIN related bits for CDCVM (hence the wording on some receipts), but I don't think those are being counted in the above stats.
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Old Dec 24, 2019, 5:52 am
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My first EMV gasoline buy last night at an Exxon in Dunn, NC, a small town south of Raleigh off I95. Was surprised to find EMV enabled, and contactless appeared to be as well.
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Old Dec 24, 2019, 12:47 pm
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Originally Posted by MJonTravel
My first EMV gasoline buy last night at an Exxon in Dunn, NC, a small town south of Raleigh off I95. Was surprised to find EMV enabled, and contactless appeared to be as well.
Perhaps the beta period for ExxonMobil and Verifone is almost done? Gilbarco and ExxonMobil is still in "development", however. (You'd think they'd share at least some code among the different acquirers, leaving only the interaction between the controller and POS/acquirer needing to be changed.)
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Old Dec 24, 2019, 3:10 pm
  #5863  
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Originally Posted by tmiw
Perhaps the beta period for ExxonMobil and Verifone is almost done? Gilbarco and ExxonMobil is still in "development", however. (You'd think they'd share at least some code among the different acquirers, leaving only the interaction between the controller and POS/acquirer needing to be changed.)
I think that was from this article. I think it was from October of 2018. https://www.gilbarco.com/us/blog/hol...tion-forecourt

So they were Gilbarco using Passport. Why is that back in development now I wonder? It was like this was the test, now it is back in development, but has maintained deployment at some sites.

Gilbarco marketed its system's ability to do EMV at the pump heavily the past year and a half or so yet so far nothing has happened on a widespread basis. They sold many large operators on their Passport POS system and ran the old Wayne Nucleus POS out of the US market entirely.
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Old Dec 24, 2019, 4:16 pm
  #5864  
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Originally Posted by storewanderer
I think that was from this article. I think it was from October of 2018. https://www.gilbarco.com/us/blog/hol...tion-forecourt

So they were Gilbarco using Passport. Why is that back in development now I wonder? It was like this was the test, now it is back in development, but has maintained deployment at some sites.

Gilbarco marketed its system's ability to do EMV at the pump heavily the past year and a half or so yet so far nothing has happened on a widespread basis. They sold many large operators on their Passport POS system and ran the old Wayne Nucleus POS out of the US market entirely.
Possibilities:
  • They ran into significant issues with the rollout mentioned in the above article. They added temporary workarounds (hence why they didn't disable EMV at the pump altogether) but they can't roll out to anyone else until they fix them properly.
  • Their software architecture is such that they actually do need to redo significant amounts of work for each operator. Considering how common fully integrated setups are at non-gas merchants in the US, I wouldn't be surprised if this was the primary reason.
All that said, I don't think most locations will have EMV at the pump before October simply because the hardware isn't installed, let alone software availability.
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Old Dec 25, 2019, 12:33 am
  #5865  
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Originally Posted by tmiw
Possibilities:
  • They ran into significant issues with the rollout mentioned in the above article. They added temporary workarounds (hence why they didn't disable EMV at the pump altogether) but they can't roll out to anyone else until they fix them properly.
  • Their software architecture is such that they actually do need to redo significant amounts of work for each operator. Considering how common fully integrated setups are at non-gas merchants in the US, I wouldn't be surprised if this was the primary reason.
All that said, I don't think most locations will have EMV at the pump before October simply because the hardware isn't installed, let alone software availability.
I definitely agree on this. Gas stations are a tough business, especially tough to make money for these single station operators. Faced with a huge cost to re-do pumps is just not economically viable for many of these small operators to deploy what are some very high cost improvements to make EMV work (new pump hardware, different wiring between the pumps and store, etc.). I really think at this point these people who own stations that are branded and are stuck in 10-20 year branding agreements that "require" pay at the pump as a condition of having a given brand, are waiting for the oil companies to come in with some kind of solution to this that will somehow cost less. The solution would be to forget about contact EMV at the pump entirely and convert the pumps to tap only. If you don't want to tap or can't tap, then you get to go pay inside. No more swipe which has all the skimming/fraud issues, no contact EMV reader that customers keep breaking because they don't understand the concept of "DO NOT REMOVE CARD," etc.

I think it is going to take the card networks literally telling these operators either you upgrade to something that runs EMV or you cannot process cards anymore, to make this happen. Same goes for many restaurants in the US who continue to take cards away and swipe.

I was in a small rural independent grocer recently in CA, with two NCR registers and MX915s. Very small operation, likely little to no fraud given how remote it is, they don't sell gift cards, etc. They had the chip reader duct taped over and said swipe or tap only. Previously, they accepted chip. I asked why no more chip and the guy running the register (owner) said so we don't have to pay $2,500 per month for the software. I commented isn't Chip required though and he said "that's what they want you to think, but they let us disable it and go back to the old cheaper way for now."

Last edited by storewanderer; Dec 25, 2019 at 12:39 am
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