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USA EMV cards: Availability, Q&A (Chip & PIN or Signature) [2017>]

Old Jan 16, 2017, 11:23 am
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What is EMV?
EMV is a standard for smart (or integrated-circuit, or chip) cards and the devices that can accept them. The standards are maintained by EMVCo and based on ISO 7816 (or ISO 14443 for contactless).

These cards come in two flavours: contact and contactless. Examples below:
----------------------------------------------------------

Notice the contactless indicator on the right-hand side (it looks like a sideways Wi-Fi symbol). It may also be found on the back of the card (for example, on the back of the new Costco credit card).


Where can I get a chip card?

Hawaiian717 operates a website with crowd-sourced information about various cards. You can adjust the search parameters to see cards with contactless, have PIN-primary authentication, etc.

Which businesses accept chip cards?

tmiw operates a website, also primarily crowd-sourced, that tracks chip-enabled merchants on a map. You can see if a merchant supports PIN, contactless, Quick Chip, et al.

Why doesn't my chip card ask for a PIN?

This is likely because you have a signature-preferring card. At this time, PIN-preferring cards issued in the US are rare. Not many financial institutions offer them; most of them instead provide Chip-and-Signature cards, which are programmed to prefer signature over PIN, if the card supports PIN at all.

What is the difference between Chip-and-Signature and Chip-and-PIN?

To the cardholder, the only major difference is how they authenticate themselves at the point of sale. The cardholder inserts their card as normal; instead of signing a screen or receipt, they will be asked to enter their PIN on the keypad.

[spoiler]

A few financial institutions issue some form of Chip-and-PIN credit cards or prepaid cards. Prepaid EMV cards however are not recommended due to junk fees.

Why no PIN? (cont.)
American debit cards are unique because they are psuedo-PIN-preferring cards. which may work at many automated kiosks. However, bear in mind the word may is used above is a context where there is no absolute certainty of success for certain environments such as automated kiosks due to different natures of offline and online transactions.

What is the difference between Chip-and-Signature and Chip-and-PIN? (cont.)

Most cards issued in the US are programmed to prefer signature, so save very few instances, they will prompt for a signature (unless the merchant sets a signature waiver). A PIN may be necessary in countries with mostly PIN-preferring cards when using unattended terminals (such as pay-at-the-pump or mass transit). If the card has a PIN for backup verification or ATMs, then that PIN should work. Otherwise, the card will be rejected. If the card is rejected, then either a.) the transaction must be performed by an attendant or b.) an alternative payment method will be required.

Some credit union issued credit cards will have this CVM (Cardholder Verification Method) as secondary if Chip-and-Signature cannot be done. Chip-and-PIN is the more prevalent method of authentication used outside the US, especially in transaction environments where no human interaction is needed (i.e. automated gas pumps, toll roads, train kiosks, etc.).

One chip can hold a lot more data, therefore it is capable of doing multiple verification methods. That's one of the great things about EMV over the mag-stripe which can hold very little data.

I want to know for sure what my EMV chip does. Is there anyway I can test out my own EMV card to see what the CVM list is?
alexmt has written up a nice step-by-step procedure on Post #3615.

If most of the EMV cards in the US is the Chip-and-Signature type, doesn't that mean it's still useless abroad?
Depends if you see it as glass half empty or glass half full. See Post #3 for further details on how Chip-and-Signature has worked both successfully and unsuccessfully depending on the merchant transaction environment and use your best judgment whether which one is right for you.


I don't want a chip in my card. I heard horror stories all over the media saying hackers can steal my credit card info from a mile away.


There are two types of chips. One is contactless and the other is contact. Cards can be either one or the other, or both.

In the Google Docs spreadsheet, the cards that are capable of contactless payments are listed seperately under the "RFID or NFC contactless chip" column. If it says yes, then that means it has the ability to do contactless payments. If it says no, it doesn't have that feature.

The one that the media has overhyped about hackers "stealing your information wirelessly" was the contactless type like this:

You are worried about this happening, right?

You don't have to worry. EMV is a chip standard that can have both contact and contactless interfaces. With the traditional contact interface, this means you actually have to physically insert the chip into a POS terminal for it to be authorized, like this:

With the contact interface, nothing is wireless. No data is sent out in a stand-alone contact type EMV chip. With the EMV contactless interface, data is sent wirelessly.

Furthermore, contactless chip cards are required to show a symbol (looks like Wi-Fi symbol) somewhere on the card that to denote its capability as a contactless card. For example, here's an example of a Discover Card with contactless capability (in which Discover calls "Discover ZIP") showing the contactless symbol on the back of the card:

Don't believe everything that the media says. Besides, millions of people all over the world from London to Singapore, uses contactless payments daily in extremely crowded subways and mass transit with nary any problems. There are multiple layers of encrypted securities and keys that are needed to break the code.

Frankly, giving your physical card to a waiter/waitress who takes the card out of your view is much more susceptible to fraud than contactless payments.

Why should I care?
If you are an international traveler, you will want this because majority of the world has or in the process of converting to this payment format.

In fact, in 2012, even North Korea moved to the EMV format, leaving the US as one of the countries in the world that hasn't done so.

In addition, VISA, MC, AMEX, and Discover have all agreed to incentivize the USA shifting to EMV payments by 2015 by shifting liability for fraudulent transactions to merchants if they do not have EMV equipment and the cardholder has an EMV card. So if you travel internationally or would like to get one before the others, you might be interested in getting one.


BS! I had no problems using my card in [insert whereever country], [insert whatever point in time]
If you stick to the tourist path where they have lots of visitors from the US, you should have no problems using your mag-stripe only card in hotels and restaurants, at least for now. But as things can change as things go forward.

However, consider that once you start taking the off-beaten path, go to non-touristy places where they are not familiar with mag-stripes, rent a car and use toll roads, fill up gas, or try to buy train tickets you might end up into a trouble of the machine not recognizing your card because it lacks the chip. Furthermore, a lot of toll roads, gas pumps, and automated ticket machines lack any human assistance to help you when you need it the most.

But [insert credit card company] told me all merchants that display their logo must accept them! All I have to do is report them for violating their agreements, right?
There are several factors against this.

1. You can only speak English. The merchant representative, most likely a part-time clerk earning minimum wage, speaks in a different language, let's say French. If you have no French language skills, how are you going to get your point across? Are you going to whip out your cell phone at exorbitant int'l roaming charges and hope the customer service is going to translate it for you on the spot? Or maybe you might actually know French. But how about Swahili, Farsi, Balinese, or the multiple languages in mainland China?

2. Just like US, the rest of the world's businesses uses part-time minimum wage workers as cashiers to cut down on labor costs. Most of their SOP training manuals are written by MBA types to not to do anything they are not familiar with. Do not expect them to understand the intricate details of credit card mumbo jumbo. You don't expect Taco Bell employees to understand the minute details of Discover-JCB-Union Pay agreements, right? Same thing the other way around: be respectful as a guest in their country, prepare in advance in their ways, avoid being an "ugly American" stereotype.

3. You are a guest in their country. You are a minority. If 99.9% of their country's people and other tourists from around the world uses EMV, do you really think they are going to accomodate the 0.1% of American tourists who only have mag-stripes credit cards?

4. Again, you are a guest in their country. How would you, as an American standing in line, react if a Chinese tourist was clogging up the lines at a local Taco Bell because the clerk doesn't understand the Discover-Union Pay agreement and has trouble communicating between Mandarin spoken by the tourist and English spoken by the Taco Bell clerk? Same way the other way around. You do not want to clog up the lines for everyone. The less hassle, the better.

5. VISA and MC make tons of money from merchants in that country. Say SNCF French Rail. It's a billion dollar company in France. Do you think VISA is going to pull the plug of their relationship with SNCF because SNCF refuses to do mag-stripe processing at their unmanned train station kiosk? Of course not. Be realistic.

6. And lastly, if you're up against an unstaffed toll kiosk, gas pump or train ticket machine, are you going to yell curses at the machine?

But I want my credit card to be able to be used in the US too!
No worries. They have not gotten rid of the mag-stripe on the back of the card for backward compatibility reasons, just like we still have embossed numbers on our cards for backwards compatibility to using those old carbon copy imprinters.

[insert own Hyatt card image front and back together with red arrows pointing to all the backward compatibility features]

You use the chip on the front of the card abroad (for now), and the mag-stripe just like any other card for the US. Basically, you're increasing your credit card's acceptance rate by getting a card that both via the chip and the mag-stripe. You're getting a better deal for free.

And when 2015 comes along and US switches to EMV, you'll be way ahead of everyone else too!


So why did the rest of the world and the US moved/moving toward EMV?
Primarily, due to fraud concerns. You see, the mag-stripe has been with us since the 1950s. It may have been the most high tech thing back in the day, but with the technology that is available today, any shmo can pick up a $100 USB magnetic card skimming device off of eBay and get your credit card info.

And unlike skimming off contactless cards which actually need the person to have l33t programming skills, skimming off a magnetic stripe has become so ubiquitous that nary a day goes about skimming fraud going on somewhere in America, from gas pumps, Michael's stores (2011), Target breaches (2013), restaurant waiters/waitresses, to even McDonald's drive thrus.

https://www.google.com/search?q=skimming+fraud

These type of fraud used to be prevalent in Europe. But once they started switching over to EMV starting over 2 decades ago, this type of fraud went elsewhere. It went over to Asia, Canada and Mexico, Latin America, etc. etc. until they too began implementing EMV to combat skimming fraud. The US is practically the only country left that hasn't done so, therefore all the fraud that used to take place elsewhere is now happening here.


But EMV is old and it's not fool proof. Shouldn't we just skip over it and do something new instead?
Yes, EMV is old. It was developed in the 1990s, and its smart card payment predecessor was first introduced in France. But as of today, it has become the de-facto global standard of payments.

But then, what else is there? There is no other de facto global standard of payments alternative. For example, if we decide to skip over it and do something new, hypothetically like DNA matching technology, it still means US int'l travelers will continue to have problems abroad with useless plastic acceptance because no other country is using this DNA matching technology except the US.

Besides, nothing is fool proof. You can say that the bank vault isn't fool proof because you can crack it open if enough C4 is used. But your average low-life scumbag isn't likely to get military grade C4 easily either. But the bank vault does make it harder to get the bank's money over say a petty cash box. That's the point here. EMV is akin to a security tight bank vault, the old mag-stripe is akin to a petty cash box lying around inside the drawer.


I'm a business owner and I don't think EMV is going to take off. I'm not going to spend extra hundreds of dollars to upgrade my credit card machine. Convince me other wise why I should.
I can understand the added extra cost to your business once this switchover takes place. But before even saying that, look at your existing POS terminal. Does it have a slot somewhere to insert a card?

Most likely, if you had replaced your POS terminal within the past five years, you already have an EMV capable terminal. EMV is basically just not turned on yet from the processor and acquirer side.

If you have an EMV capable terminal, then a best bet would be to contact your acquirer to have the EMV feature turned on. You did your end of the deal already by having an EMV capable terminal, it is now the acquirers' responsibility to turn it on in accordance to the EMV switchover mandate.

And if you don't, you are going to replace your POS terminal anyway from common wear and tear. It isn't a hard switch-over. You can continue to use your POS terminal until it dies out because EMV cardholders will still have the mag-stripe on the back. And by the time your non-EMV capable POS terminal is up for replacement the market will be full with these newer POS terminals that can accept the mag-stripe, EMV, as well as contactless payments.

In addition, you may also want to check with your acquirer or processor about EMV capable terminals. Some of them are willing to replace your terminal for free in preparation for the US EMV switchover. Call and ask for details.


But what's in it for me? I'm the one that has to pay for the upgrade.
All the major card networks have given incentives for merchants for the upcoming EMV switchover.

If 75% or more of your credit card transactions are done on an EMV contact and contactless terminal, they are going to waive your annual PCI-DSS fees, which usually costs you around $5.00-$19.95/month per terminal. The overall long term cost savings of those compliance fees will be larger than the cost of an one time upgrade for the terminal.

The downside is that once EMV switchover happens and if you do not have a POS terminal that is able to accept EMV, the fraud liability shifts over to the merchant.
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USA EMV cards: Availability, Q&A (Chip & PIN or Signature) [2017>]

Old May 21, 2017, 12:54 am
  #1546  
 
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Originally Posted by tmiw
ICBC's US arm issues UnionPay cards now so it's not exactly just for Chinese anymore. It's also not completely out of the question for other banks and credit unions to issue them if they so desire, much like that one credit union that issues V PAY cards for people who travel to Europe (except unlike V PAY there's no geographic restriction for UnionPay cards).

Realistically, I'd imagine there'll have to be at least some support for the UnionPay AIDs eventually so that using such cards here isn't a complete pain.
What is the advantage of having a Union Pay card, though? Just go out and apply for a Discover as it's co-branded with Union Pay.

The rest of the world accepts Visa/MasterCard, even in China.
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Old May 21, 2017, 1:55 am
  #1547  
 
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Originally Posted by mikesyr18
I don't see the need for merchants to take Union Pay in the U.S, as its primarily a network for Chinese merchants.

The only way the card will continue to be accepted here is if they stay partnered with one of the four card networks... Currently Discover.
Why do you have so much hostility towards people visiting the US?
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Old May 21, 2017, 2:15 am
  #1548  
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Originally Posted by mikesyr18
What is the advantage of having a Union Pay card, though? Just go out and apply for a Discover as it's co-branded with Union Pay.
Unless things have changed recently, Discover tends to have problems in China in no small part due to improper fallback behavior--if the merchant even lets you attempt it. Also, UnionPay is far more accepted in China than Visa/MC (and WeChat/Alipay supposedly even more accepted than UP, but access to those is likely difficult to impossible for a non-resident).

As for advantages for those who don't travel to China, that's probably going to depend on the issuer. ICBC's AF card for example offers 1.5% cash back on all purchases but it's not difficult to imagine other cards offering different/better benefits in the future.

BTW I almost forgot--UnionPay credit cards can supposedly be run on debit networks in the US, meaning that Costco in theory accepts UP along with Visa. Just thought I'd mention it in case that matters to someone.
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Old May 21, 2017, 2:42 am
  #1549  
 
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Originally Posted by AllieKat
Why do you have so much hostility towards people visiting the US?
I don't.

If you go to Wegmans, insert your chipped card.

If you're from China, you have the option of Visa or MasterCard.

Union Pay isn't globally accepted. It's like me complaining to merchants when I go to Canada that they don't take AMEX or AMEX tap.
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Old May 21, 2017, 2:47 am
  #1550  
 
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Originally Posted by tmiw
Unless things have changed recently, Discover tends to have problems in China in no small part due to improper fallback behavior--if the merchant even lets you attempt it. Also, UnionPay is far more accepted in China than Visa/MC (and WeChat/Alipay supposedly even more accepted than UP, but access to those is likely difficult to impossible for a non-resident).

As for advantages for those who don't travel to China, that's probably going to depend on the issuer. ICBC's AF card for example offers 1.5% cash back on all purchases but it's not difficult to imagine other cards offering different/better benefits in the future.

BTW I almost forgot--UnionPay credit cards can supposedly be run on debit networks in the US, meaning that Costco in theory accepts UP along with Visa. Just thought I'd mention it in case that matters to someone.
So the advantage is 1.5% cash back? You can get that at pretty much any bank in the U.S...

-1.5% Quicksilver/Quicksilver One
-Chase Freedom Unlimited
-Wells Fargo Cash Rewards

And those are just a few options with no annual fee. Other banks offer 1%+1% cards, 2% cards, 2.5% back cards, cards with travel rewards, 5% rotating cards, etc., that are much better than what a Union Pay card gives you.

I don't really see a reason to use Union Pay here, unless you're trying to play a scavenger hunt within trying to find a merchant who accepts the card that also has sub-par rewards.
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Old May 21, 2017, 2:49 am
  #1551  
 
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Well a preview guys for you. This is my best friend Erin* holding a PayJunction flyer- PayJunction is one of my merchant services we resell. They offer Equinox terminals with everything enabled and one of the best setups we install.

The chip card parody video we are making is almost complete! Anywho I hope you guys will like it!

*Erin and I are the ones who always goes on our chip card walk!

The video unfortunately does not have an Equinox terminal. Instead we are using a Verifone Vx520, a Miura m010, an ingenico ict250, a Verifone Mx915, and a Square reader!!
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Old May 21, 2017, 2:58 am
  #1552  
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Originally Posted by mikesyr18
So the advantage is 1.5% cash back? You can get that at pretty much any bank in the U.S...

-1.5% Quicksilver/Quicksilver One
-Chase Freedom Unlimited
-Wells Fargo Cash Rewards

And those are just a few options with no annual fee. Other banks offer 1%+1% cards, 2% cards, 2.5% back cards, cards with travel rewards, 5% rotating cards, etc., that are much better than what a Union Pay card gives you.

I don't really see a reason to use Union Pay here, unless you're trying to play a scavenger hunt within trying to find a merchant who accepts the card that also has sub-par rewards.
Unlike in China with Discover, UnionPay usually does work in the US, albeit using the magstripe instead of the chip.

Oh, another advantage of the ICBC card is that it's contactless by default. That'll likely require merchants to get UnionPay chip support working though. I almost want to apply for it just so I can occasionally test support for UnionPay chip here.
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Old May 21, 2017, 3:01 am
  #1553  
 
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Originally Posted by mikesyr18
I don't.

If you go to Wegmans, insert your chipped card.

If you're from China, you have the option of Visa or MasterCard.

Union Pay isn't globally accepted. It's like me complaining to merchants when I go to Canada that they don't take AMEX or AMEX tap.
No, EMV contactless is required by some US-issued cards as well. Also, it is a security weakness to not use it - and there have been enough examples of insecure merchant systems lately I don't need to explain why that's bad.

UnionPay *is* a global network.

Why wouldn't you complain in Canada about shops that don't take Amex or Amex Contactless? It's very annoying when shops don't. Not taking Amex Contactless is a worldwide issue. Montana has shops that don't, the UK has shops that don't. It's frustrating and Amex needs to incentivise merchants to fix it...

I just ran into another on Friday... ASDA (British Walmart). Granted the company is so anti contactless I'm surprised they even take it for Visa/MC. I generally boycott them but I went in one Friday night and was disappointed they don't take Amex contactless.
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Old May 21, 2017, 3:03 am
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Originally Posted by AllieKat
No, EMV contactless is required by some US-issued cards as well. Also, it is a security weakness to not use it - and there have been enough examples of insecure merchant systems lately I don't need to explain why that's bad.

UnionPay *is* a global network.

Why wouldn't you complain in Canada about shops that don't take Amex or Amex Contactless? It's very annoying when shops don't. Not taking Amex Contactless is a worldwide issue. Montana has shops that don't, the UK has shops that don't. It's frustrating and Amex needs to incentivise merchants to fix it...

I just ran into another on Friday... ASDA (British Walmart). Granted the company is so anti contactless I'm surprised they even take it for Visa/MC. I generally boycott them but I went in one Friday night and was disappointed they don't take Amex contactless.
Did ASDA actually enable contactless? Last I went it just said Insert or Swipe card on the Ingenico iPP
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Old May 21, 2017, 3:04 am
  #1555  
 
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Originally Posted by tmiw
Unlike in China with Discover, UnionPay usually does work in the US, albeit using the magstripe instead of the chip.

Oh, another advantage of the ICBC card is contactless by default. That'll likely require merchants to get UnionPay chip support working though. I almost want to apply for it just so I can occasionally test support for UnionPay chip here.
So in other words, the card won't work in the U.S any time soon. These days only crappy merchants don't have the chip turned on. Those who accept a chipped card and allow fall back are just stupid merchants with insecure technology practives.

So not only do you have to fiddle around with finding a merchant who accepts the card (because Discover isn't accepted as much as Visa/MC), but then you have to find a merchant who doesn't take chip (rapidly decreasing percentage of them aren't), and then you think any of them are going to go out of their way to get Union Pay chip working? Don't think so.

You know how American merchants are. If the cashier sees a Union Pay logo on your card, they're telling you to take out another card with a Visa/MC/AX/Disc logo on it. They're not going to go out of their way to accept a card nobody has in their wallet, except for select card geeks like yourself (no offense but we're all card geeks here).
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Old May 21, 2017, 3:08 am
  #1556  
 
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Originally Posted by AllieKat
No, EMV contactless is required by some US-issued cards as well. Also, it is a security weakness to not use it - and there have been enough examples of insecure merchant systems lately I don't need to explain why that's bad.

UnionPay *is* a global network.

Why wouldn't you complain in Canada about shops that don't take Amex or Amex Contactless? It's very annoying when shops don't. Not taking Amex Contactless is a worldwide issue. Montana has shops that don't, the UK has shops that don't. It's frustrating and Amex needs to incentivise merchants to fix it...

I just ran into another on Friday... ASDA (British Walmart). Granted the company is so anti contactless I'm surprised they even take it for Visa/MC. I generally boycott them but I went in one Friday night and was disappointed they don't take Amex contactless.
Hardly. Calling Union Pay a global network is like saying AMEX is a global network.

-60% acceptance in the Netherlands.
-60% in France.
-70% in Spain.
-Has to team up with Discover in the states to have any acceptance.

Hardly global. Can anyone find acceptance numbers in Canada or Australia?


As much as I want shops to take all payment methods, they don't and that's their choice. Do you really think my local Subway will start accepting AMEX after I complain? Nope, because all that matters is their bottom line. I realize American Express is called American Express for a reason... Their target market is America.

Last edited by mikesyr18; May 21, 2017 at 3:14 am
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Old May 21, 2017, 3:22 am
  #1557  
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Originally Posted by AllieKat
I just ran into another on Friday... ASDA (British Walmart). Granted the company is so anti contactless I'm surprised they even take it for Visa/MC. I generally boycott them but I went in one Friday night and was disappointed they don't take Amex contactless.
Visa/MC has a contactless mandate for Europe, which probably explains why ASDA/Walmart accepts it there but nowhere else. Like you said, I highly doubt they really wanted to.

Originally Posted by mikesyr18
So in other words, the card won't work in the U.S any time soon. These days only crappy merchants don't have the chip turned on. Those who accept a chipped card and allow fall back are just stupid merchants with insecure technology practives.
Or they're allowing their customers to still pay for their stuff if the chip and/or terminal has issues for whatever reason. Otherwise the alternative is manual entry, which makes the store liable.

Originally Posted by mikesyr18
So not only do you have to fiddle around with finding a merchant who accepts the card (because Discover isn't accepted as much as Visa/MC), but then you have to find a merchant who doesn't take chip (rapidly decreasing percentage of them aren't), and then you think any of them are going to go out of their way to get Union Pay chip working? Don't think so.

You know how American merchants are. If the cashier sees a Union Pay logo on your card, they're telling you to take out another card with a Visa/MC/AX/Disc logo on it. They're not going to go out of their way to accept a card nobody has in their wallet, except for select card geeks like yourself (no offense but we're all card geeks here).
Discover is accepted almost everywhere that Visa/MC is in the US, so that's probably not going to be a problem. Not to mention that you're going to be swiping/inserting the card yourself most of the time--especially in places tourists usually shop--meaning that the merchant isn't going to be in a position to stop you.

Anyway, if the UnionPay sticker is on the shop window the merchant likely has at least heard of it and will attempt to run the card.
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Old May 21, 2017, 3:22 am
  #1558  
 
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Originally Posted by mikesyr18
Hardly. Calling Union Pay a global network is like saying AMEX is a global network.

-60% acceptance in the Netherlands.
-60% in France.
-70% in Spain.
-Has to team up with Discover in the states to have any acceptance.

Hardly global. Can anyone find acceptance numbers in Canada or Australia?


As much as I want shops to take all payment methods, they don't and that's their choice. Do you really think my local Subway will start accepting AMEX after I complain? Nope, because all that matters is their bottom line. I realize American Express is called American Express for a reason... Their target market is America.
Again, you don't understand what a word means. Global doesn't mean accepted everywhere Visa and MasterCard are. It means widely accepted and issued in many countries.

Also it's a total myth that American Express mainly targets America. It is heavily marketed here in the UK and widely accepted. Now, some markets they do seem to not care about at all... Like Ireland. Still, they're very much a global payment network.

ASDA has contactless but it didn't work for Amex. Didn't try others.
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Old May 21, 2017, 3:27 am
  #1559  
 
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Originally Posted by tmiw
Visa/MC has a contactless mandate for Europe, which probably explains why ASDA/Walmart accepts it there but nowhere else. Like you said, I highly doubt they really wanted to.



Or they're allowing their customers to still pay for their stuff if the chip and/or terminal has issues for whatever reason. Otherwise the alternative is manual entry, which makes the store liable.



Discover is accepted almost everywhere that Visa/MC is in the US, so that's probably not going to be a problem. Not to mention that you're going to be swiping/inserting the card yourself most of the time--especially in places tourists usually shop--meaning that the merchant isn't going to be in a position to stop you.

Anyway, if the UnionPay sticker is on the shop window the merchant likely has at least heard of it and will attempt to run the card.
If the chipped card is swiped the store is liable regardless if they manually enter it or not. Stores are better off refusing cards when the chip doesn't work, because then their liability doesn't exist. The idea of the chip is to weed out the fake cards from the real ones.

You just said Union Pay chip doesn't work. Most stores I frequent today take the chip, so a Union Pay card won't work... And then you have to add that many places don't take Discover. Sure, 90% of the merchants in the U.S do take Discover, but some don't, and then the percentage goes down because most take chipped cards now.
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Old May 21, 2017, 3:28 am
  #1560  
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Originally Posted by mikesyr18
Can anyone find acceptance numbers in Canada or Australia?
For AmEx or UnionPay? The latter is accepted at 100,000 merchants in Canada and 65% in Australia, if you believe UnionPay themselves.
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