Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
Jun 11, 2019, 11:51 pm
#6436
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Window Seat
Programs: National Executive, HHonors Gold, IHG Platinum, Hyatt Visitor
Posts: 2,495
Some observations in Canada.
Still no Contactless at Home Depot, Wal Mart, L Brands (Bath and Body works, etc.)...
Petsmart is now on the same exact system as the US with MX925s and the receipt is completely identical to a US Receipt. Same for HMS Host in the airport; now same system as US and identical receipts. Dollar Tree is still really screwy with freestanding terminals the cashier has to key the amount on, then go back to the US-like cash register and finalize the transaction, then you get two slips, and NO TAP prominently displayed on terminals that are clearly able to accept tap. But that's okay because their competitor Dollarama has Tap and has a normal point of sale set up where the pinpad and cash register are semi-integrated.
Husky gas station did EMV Contactless at the pump with American Express Contactless but in-store it still appeared to be MSD Contactless and signature line printed on the receipt.
It doesn't look like anyone does device verification up there except one lone restaurant I went to that was using Square...
Still no Contactless at Home Depot, Wal Mart, L Brands (Bath and Body works, etc.)...
Petsmart is now on the same exact system as the US with MX925s and the receipt is completely identical to a US Receipt. Same for HMS Host in the airport; now same system as US and identical receipts. Dollar Tree is still really screwy with freestanding terminals the cashier has to key the amount on, then go back to the US-like cash register and finalize the transaction, then you get two slips, and NO TAP prominently displayed on terminals that are clearly able to accept tap. But that's okay because their competitor Dollarama has Tap and has a normal point of sale set up where the pinpad and cash register are semi-integrated.
Husky gas station did EMV Contactless at the pump with American Express Contactless but in-store it still appeared to be MSD Contactless and signature line printed on the receipt.
It doesn't look like anyone does device verification up there except one lone restaurant I went to that was using Square...
Jun 12, 2019, 12:22 am
#6437
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
Some observations in Canada.
Still no Contactless at Home Depot, Wal Mart, L Brands (Bath and Body works, etc.)...
Petsmart is now on the same exact system as the US with MX925s and the receipt is completely identical to a US Receipt. Same for HMS Host in the airport; now same system as US and identical receipts. Dollar Tree is still really screwy with freestanding terminals the cashier has to key the amount on, then go back to the US-like cash register and finalize the transaction, then you get two slips, and NO TAP prominently displayed on terminals that are clearly able to accept tap. But that's okay because their competitor Dollarama has Tap and has a normal point of sale set up where the pinpad and cash register are semi-integrated.
Husky gas station did EMV Contactless at the pump with American Express Contactless but in-store it still appeared to be MSD Contactless and signature line printed on the receipt.
It doesn't look like anyone does device verification up there except one lone restaurant I went to that was using Square...
Still no Contactless at Home Depot, Wal Mart, L Brands (Bath and Body works, etc.)...
Petsmart is now on the same exact system as the US with MX925s and the receipt is completely identical to a US Receipt. Same for HMS Host in the airport; now same system as US and identical receipts. Dollar Tree is still really screwy with freestanding terminals the cashier has to key the amount on, then go back to the US-like cash register and finalize the transaction, then you get two slips, and NO TAP prominently displayed on terminals that are clearly able to accept tap. But that's okay because their competitor Dollarama has Tap and has a normal point of sale set up where the pinpad and cash register are semi-integrated.
Husky gas station did EMV Contactless at the pump with American Express Contactless but in-store it still appeared to be MSD Contactless and signature line printed on the receipt.
It doesn't look like anyone does device verification up there except one lone restaurant I went to that was using Square...
It seems most US retailers have been standardizing now that the US has EMV. Which is a good thing, especially since I started even seeing MX915s as far as Australia.
I guess it’s also to be expected that Walmart and Home Depot does not have it in Canada either, as they’re the same systems as the US. Walmart uses the same 4690 system all over the world, but enabled Contactless for ASDA with the iPP350s. Im surprised they just didn’t deploy the iSC250 at ASDA as well
Jun 12, 2019, 9:43 am
#6438
Join Date: Oct 2007
Programs: AA, WN, UA, Bonvoy, Hertz
Posts: 2,491
BOA's contactless and FAQ page is now available: https://promo.bankofamerica.com/taptopay/
No, contactless cards are not available upon request.
Jun 12, 2019, 10:30 am
#6439
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
I think it's totally expected that they won't allow requests for one if it's supposed to be a pilot limited to a few metro areas. For such a pilot, they probably have no problems preemptively replacing everyone's cards within a fairly short timespan. However, I expect a wider rollout to be more of a "replace as they expire" affair.
Jun 12, 2019, 11:24 am
#6440
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
I had a client today pay me by tapping a Chase card on my ICMP. It seems like word is getting out that people know they can tap.
Jun 12, 2019, 12:06 pm
#6441
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: RSW
Programs: Delta - Silver; UA - Silver; HHonors - Diamond; IHG - Spire Ambassador; Marriott Bonvoy - Titanium
Posts: 14,185
Jun 12, 2019, 4:47 pm
#6443
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Livonia, MI
Posts: 197
I have a BofA debit card expiring in September and a credit card expiring in June of next year. I wonder if either of them will be replaced with contactless. The former I suspect will be no, and the latter could go either way.
Jun 12, 2019, 5:40 pm
#6444
Join Date: Mar 2017
Programs: HHonors, TrueBlue, Delta SkyMiles, Hyatt Discoverist, Starwood Preferred Guest, American Airlines.
Posts: 2,035
In reality, that's impossible to enforce and stupid language. If Bank of America's entire stash is contactless cards, they'll give you a contactless card if you request a replacement card. I don't see why they would deliberately keep a non-contactless pile just because they don't want current customers to receive one.
Jun 12, 2019, 9:56 pm
#6445
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
Apple Pay is official now at In N Out. I suspect something would have to be done about the drive thru but they’re still mounted!
Jun 12, 2019, 11:02 pm
#6446
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,059
This works GREAT. No more going to the kiosk when you are about to miss a train. No more trying to keep a ticket to tap in and out for the duration of the ride.
I tried this with both my physical card and using my phone. I think I actually liked the phone option better because it is more readily accessible than the physical card.
When you enter the gate it you tap and it immediately tells you to "proceed" and when you exit the gate it does the same thing. I never saw the charge amount display anywhere which was kind of weird... I think I would prefer to see that display... but this is a great system.
I tried this with both my physical card and using my phone. I think I actually liked the phone option better because it is more readily accessible than the physical card.
When you enter the gate it you tap and it immediately tells you to "proceed" and when you exit the gate it does the same thing. I never saw the charge amount display anywhere which was kind of weird... I think I would prefer to see that display... but this is a great system.
Jun 12, 2019, 11:05 pm
#6447
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
"Not available upon request."
In reality, that's impossible to enforce and stupid language. If Bank of America's entire stash is contactless cards, they'll give you a contactless card if you request a replacement card. I don't see why they would deliberately keep a non-contactless pile just because they don't want current customers to receive one.
In reality, that's impossible to enforce and stupid language. If Bank of America's entire stash is contactless cards, they'll give you a contactless card if you request a replacement card. I don't see why they would deliberately keep a non-contactless pile just because they don't want current customers to receive one.
Jun 12, 2019, 11:06 pm
#6448
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
Anyone notice whether 7-Eleven has upgraded additional pumps nearby yet? I've only noticed one location with newer pumps/readers but it definitely didn't have a contactless reader.
https://appleosophy.com/2019/06/12/r...the-pump-soon/
https://appleosophy.com/2019/06/12/r...the-pump-soon/
Jun 12, 2019, 11:22 pm
#6449
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Window Seat
Programs: National Executive, HHonors Gold, IHG Platinum, Hyatt Visitor
Posts: 2,495
Anyone notice whether 7-Eleven has upgraded additional pumps nearby yet? I've only noticed one location with newer pumps/readers but it definitely didn't have a contactless reader.
https://appleosophy.com/2019/06/12/r...the-pump-soon/
https://appleosophy.com/2019/06/12/r...the-pump-soon/
7-Elevens in Canada seem to be hit and miss on having NFC at the pump. The ones branded Esso don't seem to have it... ones with other brands have it. It may be brand specific. Petro Canada and Husky seem very committed to NFC at the pump. Esso/Mobil is hit and miss depending on station but some do have it (couldn't get it to work on two attempts though).
No NFC at the pump at Chevron Canada either...
Jun 12, 2019, 11:24 pm
#6450
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Window Seat
Programs: National Executive, HHonors Gold, IHG Platinum, Hyatt Visitor
Posts: 2,495
These US mass transits I've had the (dis)pleasure of using in the past year really need to get in line. Especially the BART system in the San Francisco bay area. That is a tech hub and there is no excuse why they can't upgrade their technology. Their fares are also considerably higher than comparable systems elsewhere like the Denver light rail, DC Metro, etc. and trains dirtier and in worse condition.