Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
May 24, 2019, 6:20 pm
#6301
Join Date: Jul 2011
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Royal Farms (the Mid-Atlantic convenience store chain) enabled EMV but a contactless Costco Visa could not be read despite the screen offering NFC and having the four dots. My guess is the EMV enabling broke contactless because it wasn’t EMV.
May 24, 2019, 10:32 pm
#6302
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So the Costco card used to work there? I would have expected it not to have due to a presumed lack of EMV contactless.
May 24, 2019, 10:37 pm
#6303
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Speaking of EMV contactless, I went back to Trader Joe's and it looks like it is indeed enabled (at least if we go by the TC line instead of the lack of an AID):
I also saw a second Wetzel's with the PAX PIN pads. Unfortunately the ones there were also hidden from customers. I don't know if it's just the same franchisee owning both and training their employees accordingly or if Wetzel's themselves are telling locations not to let customers use them.
I also saw a second Wetzel's with the PAX PIN pads. Unfortunately the ones there were also hidden from customers. I don't know if it's just the same franchisee owning both and training their employees accordingly or if Wetzel's themselves are telling locations not to let customers use them.
May 25, 2019, 1:13 am
#6304
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I used at 3 different Royal Farms a couple weeks ago. 3 times in store and it worked fine, EMV Contactless. Royal Farms is on EMV Contactless with NCR Radiant, same system as Sheetz and those former Kroger owned c-stores. Cashier has to press electronic tender to make it work (won't work until end of transaction)... Also at Royal, used one time at gas pump, there it was MSD Contactless and prompted for zip code but also worked fine.
May 25, 2019, 2:15 pm
#6305
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From /r/costco: https://www.reddit.com/r/Costco/comm...test_location/ and https://imgur.com/31GRzDm
May 25, 2019, 3:06 pm
#6306
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The Pay Fob is another option, looks like Contactless is on track to be enabled right around the digital membership card is rolling out, August
May 25, 2019, 5:04 pm
#6307
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Speaking of gas pumps, the fact that they apparently need to have separate software releases for each brand doesn't bode well for 2020. Just IMO.
May 25, 2019, 7:21 pm
#6308
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...Best Buy Pay?
Oh well, at least NFC still works.
Oh well, at least NFC still works.
May 26, 2019, 9:26 am
#6309
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May 26, 2019, 9:31 am
#6310
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May 26, 2019, 9:41 am
#6311
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It's just a way to pay with the store account without carrying the card.
May 26, 2019, 11:46 am
#6312
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May 26, 2019, 4:09 pm
#6313
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You'd think the retailers would realize their "in-house" or "group rewards systems" don't work.
That's why Plenti failed as well... Nobody cares, and smart customers would laugh at the cashier and leave because their purchasing information is being spied on.
Someday retailers will just accept that the point of sale is to obtain money for the good sold to the customer, which then a small slice is given to the card companies. It's not there to data mine, advertise, and have the biggest piece of garbage reader available because the company's leadership is immature and puts out the bare minimum equipment possible, instead of upgrading to EMV and EMV/NFC.
For the most popular way to pay - the U.S government has really dropped the ball on making sure card payments are safe. Yes, there's zero liability, but to allow merchants to data-mine and provide less than adequate cards security acceptance methods is not acceptable.
May 26, 2019, 5:02 pm
#6314
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Also, retailer specific apps apparently do in fact help with reducing the impact of interchange:
After years of failing to attack interchange fees through the MCX consortium, merchants wised up and followed Starbucks' lead with mobile app design. The end result is an on-going reduction in interchange fees paid out by merchants, meaning less interchange revenue for the banks issuing debit and credit cards.
May 27, 2019, 9:52 pm
#6315
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More investigation of various Wetzel's locations this past holiday weekend. So far, it looks like the ones that have already implemented EMV via other means might not need to adopt the PAX setup yet (though I'm not 100% sure on that). Around here, those are the locations inside Parkway Plaza and Westfield Plaza Bonita (and at least a few others, though those weren't visited this weekend).
Of the ones I've been to that have the PIN pads, two hide them from customers (UTC, North County Fair) and one actually makes it customer accessible (Viejas Outlets). Interesting note, though--apparently my Diners Club MC declines when inserted at the latter, despite not being asked for PIN and having no opportunity otherwise to bypass it. Contactless with Google Pay (CSR) worked fine, however, and ran as EMV contactless. I'll have to pull the logs with cardpeek to see what happened.
BTW, the PAX idle screen apparently has the various mobile wallet logos now except for Apple Pay's (apologies for the poor picture quality):
(Oh, and speaking of EMV contactless, Whole Foods still uses MSD for Visa as of tonight.)
EDIT: looks like Wetzel's uses Quick Chip with "offline PIN not entered" as one of the flags set in the CVR per cardpeek. I wonder if it's incorrectly being authorized as a PIN bypass transaction.
Of the ones I've been to that have the PIN pads, two hide them from customers (UTC, North County Fair) and one actually makes it customer accessible (Viejas Outlets). Interesting note, though--apparently my Diners Club MC declines when inserted at the latter, despite not being asked for PIN and having no opportunity otherwise to bypass it. Contactless with Google Pay (CSR) worked fine, however, and ran as EMV contactless. I'll have to pull the logs with cardpeek to see what happened.
BTW, the PAX idle screen apparently has the various mobile wallet logos now except for Apple Pay's (apologies for the poor picture quality):
(Oh, and speaking of EMV contactless, Whole Foods still uses MSD for Visa as of tonight.)
EDIT: looks like Wetzel's uses Quick Chip with "offline PIN not entered" as one of the flags set in the CVR per cardpeek. I wonder if it's incorrectly being authorized as a PIN bypass transaction.
Last edited by tmiw; May 27, 2019 at 11:42 pm