Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
Apr 24, 2019, 9:22 am
#6106
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it's all about dragging feet - just like with regular EMV. Banks had their chipped cards out en masse, but merchants lagged behind and then ended up in a certification backlog, knowing the EMV transition date.
Apr 24, 2019, 12:13 pm
#6107
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At one of the vending machines at work today:
- Google Pay with screen off: two quick beeps as though the contactless reader denied the read.
- Google Pay with screen on but not unlocked: phone brings up the unlock screen. After unlocking, the Google Pay app prompted to try again. (BTW, apparently face unlock is now acceptable for payments, at least for smaller ones. I'm not sure if I've noticed that before or not, though.)
Apr 24, 2019, 2:27 pm
#6108
Join Date: Oct 2014
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I was really rooting for some of his ideas to take shape because it sounded like JCP was going to kind of go for a more upscale Target clothing department and try to be something other than a cookie-cutter department store. Considering that Johnson came from Target before Apple, it seemed like a good idea, but I guess there was a lot of pushback internally and externally (a lot of loyal customers hated the "no more sales" approach that was the opposite of JCPenney and Kohl's did before).
I totally agree—I think the lazy thing that comes up a lot is to say is that Amazon is killing everything, but my Amazon spend is only a small percentage, especially when I live about 3-5 miles away from two Targets, a Sam's Club, a Costco, numerous good grocery stores and can pick up things on the way home from work or a quick run. Retailers who seem to give a damn about their operation and customer experience get my business regularly, but if it's an annoying hassle, I may look online instead.
Under Ron Johnson, I actually went into the stores to see how it was doing, and saw plenty of clothes I would purchase etc. Under whatever this current leadership is, I totally forgot they even had existed. Do they even do the mobile POS system anymore? Last time I saw them they were using old iPod touches with Verifone sleeves, but not sure if they are even still around anymore.
Apr 24, 2019, 4:15 pm
#6109
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Still no EMV or contactless at the Costco gas pumps. However, at least at the location I went to, the insert card label wasn't on the contactless reader (anymore?)
Also, I poked my head into another FedEx location and I didn't see any signage, so I'm guessing contactless is still rolling out. Might be worth trying to go back to the one by my house since that one definitely has the signage.
Also, I poked my head into another FedEx location and I didn't see any signage, so I'm guessing contactless is still rolling out. Might be worth trying to go back to the one by my house since that one definitely has the signage.
Apr 24, 2019, 4:24 pm
#6110
Join Date: Oct 2014
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Still no EMV or contactless at the Costco gas pumps. However, at least at the location I went to, the insert card label wasn't on the contactless reader (anymore?)
Also, I poked my head into another FedEx location and I didn't see any signage, so I'm guessing contactless is still rolling out. Might be worth trying to go back to the one by my house since that one definitely has the signage.
Also, I poked my head into another FedEx location and I didn't see any signage, so I'm guessing contactless is still rolling out. Might be worth trying to go back to the one by my house since that one definitely has the signage.
Apr 24, 2019, 9:41 pm
#6111
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After browsing the r/costco subreddit, I found out they should be enabled soon, along with the mobile membership cards. The mobile membership cards will live in the Costco app and have a QR code for scanning at the gas pump. For which afterwards you'd complete the payment with Apple Pay/*Pay. There is a beta test of this going on right now in Northern California.
Too bad they aren't doing NFC loyalty, but honestly, I'm just glad they take NFC at all.
Apr 24, 2019, 11:47 pm
#6112
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Window Seat
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I should probably read the posts in more detail, then. From what I remember, one person was saying that they were waiting until all of the gas pumps were "upgraded", which I took to mean new readers.
Too bad they aren't doing NFC loyalty, but honestly, I'm just glad they take NFC at all.
Too bad they aren't doing NFC loyalty, but honestly, I'm just glad they take NFC at all.
Apr 25, 2019, 12:17 am
#6113
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Also, I'm not sure Citi's card got much use as contactless outside of Costco; I've seen a bunch of people insert those instead of tapping, for instance. Whether it's because they've had issues tapping (thanks to being EMV contactless only) or it just wasn't promoted much by anyone other than Costco employees is the question.
Apr 25, 2019, 7:11 am
#6114
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Payment is a ritual. Inserting the card always works. It's largely motor memory. Choosing to pay by phone, or with the contactless feature of a card, requires a conscious decision. Most people have no interest in credit cards. They are not even thinking about the payment.
Apr 25, 2019, 8:07 am
#6115
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- Tapping often didn't work for the longest time, insert always works
- When you hand the Costco visa over to the cashier, they put it on top of the keyboard and then ask if you want to put it on that card; if so, they do the act of tapping for you. For many people, this will be at a time when they're putting the last of their purchases back in the cart. So not only do they not do it, they may not even notice.
- Most of the NFC payment terminals near me that don't have the separate contactless on top but instead have it built under the screen (Verifone MX models) don't even display the contactless logo or prompt for the tap. Some have the green dot and three white dots (not that obvious) with no contactless logo and saying "Please insert or swipe card" while others say the insert/swipe message with no dots even until a contactless card or NFC enabled mobile device is actually held up to the screen.
Apr 25, 2019, 8:10 am
#6116
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 53
This came up on Chase.com today. Seems like Kroger and Chase are really pushing Chase Pay.
I don't mind ChasePay, honestly. I prefer it over every store having their own "pay" app
.
Apr 25, 2019, 10:30 am
#6117
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Few factors here:
- Tapping often didn't work for the longest time, insert always works
- When you hand the Costco visa over to the cashier, they put it on top of the keyboard and then ask if you want to put it on that card; if so, they do the act of tapping for you. For many people, this will be at a time when they're putting the last of their purchases back in the cart. So not only do they not do it, they may not even notice.
- Most of the NFC payment terminals near me that don't have the separate contactless on top but instead have it built under the screen (Verifone MX models) don't even display the contactless logo or prompt for the tap. Some have the green dot and three white dots (not that obvious) with no contactless logo and saying "Please insert or swipe card" while others say the insert/swipe message with no dots even until a contactless card or NFC enabled mobile device is actually held up to the screen.
(Contact EMV did look enabled on the iSC480s, however.)
I'm beginning to wonder if Visa should have pushed back the MSD rule change. Though I'm not sure JCPenney wouldn't have just disabled it anyway.
Apr 25, 2019, 12:00 pm
#6118
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Indianapolis area
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Isn't the rule change the only hope of getting MSD out of the equation so we can have consistent contactless transactions? Keeping MSD around will just continue to make things worse.
Apr 25, 2019, 1:42 pm
#6119
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It's possible as well that it's more of a "issuers can be confident in issuing EMV only contactless cards" thing. I'm
not sure issuers are going to want to risk that right now, however, when it could very well turn people off of contactless altogether.
In any case, effectively not having any real consequences is basically the same as not having a deadline at all. At least IMO anyway.
Apr 25, 2019, 7:45 pm
#6120
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,722
Well Culvers now accepts everything with Verifone Point and MX915s. Krispy Kreme now has MX915s but it says insert card when tapped and I forced it into fallback mode after trying Visa and Amex with the same results and had to swipe.