Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
Apr 19, 2019, 4:48 pm
#6061
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If true, this is an interesting development. I feel like Walmart wouldn't just enable contactless at the gas pumps and not inside the regular stores, but who knows?
https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comme...t_gas_station/
https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comme...t_gas_station/
Apr 19, 2019, 5:54 pm
#6062
Join Date: Oct 2014
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If true, this is an interesting development. I feel like Walmart wouldn't just enable contactless at the gas pumps and not inside the regular stores, but who knows?
https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comme...t_gas_station/
https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comme...t_gas_station/
Apr 19, 2019, 6:03 pm
#6063
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The example that better fits is Costco, IMO. Costco had contactless readers outside for quite a while before enabling it inside, for instance, not to mention that the Citi Costco card had built in contactless. (I'm not sure if Capital One's Walmart cards will have built-in contactless, but it wouldn't surprise me if they did.)
Apr 20, 2019, 12:51 am
#6064
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
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I’ve used Contactless at plenty of Shell stations with Verifone POS and MX915s.
Apr 20, 2019, 4:11 pm
#6065
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Indianapolis area
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Just drove by my local Westfield IN (Indianapolis area) Circle K / Shell that I frequent on the way home from Costco. All of the Shell branding appears to have been removed. Didn't stop in as I didn't need gas but not a Shell logo was to be seen from the road. The banners over the pumps had only the Circle K branding and there was an empty spot on the sign by the road where the Shell logo used to be. This is a newly rebuilt store that reopened within the last year.
Wonder if something contractual forced them to temporarily put the Shell logos back in place. Although this was the only Circle K in the area that I've seen to drop the Shell branding during the three month period. It may have been a test to see what the impact would be of dropping the Shell brand before doing something bigger in the area.
Edit: Likely something bigger on the way given this story. https://csnews.com/circle-k-rebrandi...-north-america
Last edited by cjw2001; Apr 20, 2019 at 5:35 pm
Apr 20, 2019, 5:12 pm
#6066
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Peet's Coffee switched from VX820s to MX915s, also with default NCR software. Not sure why since contactless worked fine on the former. The tip prompt appeared after tapping so maybe it's using Quick Chip/Contactless now (or potentially just MSD contactless, but I also had to authenticate with fingerprint again after the terminal said to see phone for instructions so I'm not sure on that).
BTW, a similar "see phone" prompt also appeared at Smart & Final on my first attempt but the receipt has no indication that EMV contactless was used. I'll have to pay more attention to see if there was some sort of Google Pay app update or if both experiences were coincidental.
(Oh, and as for H&M, it's still not on the Google Pay app. I'll give it another week or so; I think it took a bit for Target to show up before too.)
BTW, a similar "see phone" prompt also appeared at Smart & Final on my first attempt but the receipt has no indication that EMV contactless was used. I'll have to pay more attention to see if there was some sort of Google Pay app update or if both experiences were coincidental.
(Oh, and as for H&M, it's still not on the Google Pay app. I'll give it another week or so; I think it took a bit for Target to show up before too.)
Apr 20, 2019, 6:03 pm
#6067
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 201
Almost three months later and the Shell logo is suddenly back on the sign and on the pumps. The building and canopy continue to have only Circle K branding and colors.
Wonder if something contractual forced them to temporarily put the Shell logos back in place. Although this was the only Circle K in the area that I've seen to drop the Shell branding during the three month period. It may have been a test to see what the impact would be of dropping the Shell brand before doing something bigger in the area.
Wonder if something contractual forced them to temporarily put the Shell logos back in place. Although this was the only Circle K in the area that I've seen to drop the Shell branding during the three month period. It may have been a test to see what the impact would be of dropping the Shell brand before doing something bigger in the area.
First, the recently-rebuilt location around the corner from me also lost all of its Shell stuff in January, and the day after that happened the NFC panels on the pumps finally worked. Last week, Shell decals reappeared on the pumps, Fuel Rewards was an option, and they broke NFC (declined like it did when things were fully-branded for Shell). Circle K has been less than forthcoming about what the heck is going on, but it sounds exactly like the Westfield location!
Another Shell/Circle K-combo had everything stripped in early January, but it didn't have NFC panels - I may keep an eye on any changes over there.
Next, there's a Circle K-only location a few miles south of that first that was built a couple of years ago. It got Verifone NFC panels added to the pumps in the last couple of weeks and they work great.
There's a Marathon/Circle K on my way home from work that has had working NFC panels for at least the last two years and it hasn't been touched.
Finally, there was a Mobil/Circle K station near my work that lost all Mobil branding and that broke Speedpass+ (annoying because the only other NFC-enabled gas station near my work is a Meijer that is a few stoplights away). This one doesn't really have any bearing on the conversation, other than it "broke" a location that worked with Apple Pay/Google Pay (but through an app).
Every Shell station (Circle K co-branded or not) that I've come across has NFC on the pumps is either fully disabled or it reads and then fails. Every non-Shell Circle K (either standalone or Marathon co-branded) seem to be fine with NFC on the pumps. It seems that the NFC-functionality might have some political things regarding Shell? They seem to really want you to use their app, Chase Pay, or something else?
Last edited by ecs0013; Apr 20, 2019 at 6:20 pm
Apr 20, 2019, 8:26 pm
#6068
Join Date: Oct 2014
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I've been lurking for awhile, but finally created an account because I had to reply to this! I have a number of Circle K locations near me (I'm also in central Indiana), and between January and now, strange things have been afoot at the Circle Ks around me, too.
First, the recently-rebuilt location around the corner from me also lost all of its Shell stuff in January, and the day after that happened the NFC panels on the pumps finally worked. Last week, Shell decals reappeared on the pumps, Fuel Rewards was an option, and they broke NFC (declined like it did when things were fully-branded for Shell). Circle K has been less than forthcoming about what the heck is going on, but it sounds exactly like the Westfield location!
Another Shell/Circle K-combo had everything stripped in early January, but it didn't have NFC panels - I may keep an eye on any changes over there.
Next, there's a Circle K-only location a few miles south of that first that was built a couple of years ago. It got Verifone NFC panels added to the pumps in the last couple of weeks and they work great.
There's a Marathon/Circle K on my way home from work that has had working NFC panels for at least the last two years and it hasn't been touched.
Finally, there was a Mobil/Circle K station near my work that lost all Mobil branding and that broke Speedpass+ (annoying because the only other NFC-enabled gas station near my work is a Meijer that is a few stoplights away). This one doesn't really have any bearing on the conversation, other than it "broke" a location that worked with Apple Pay/Google Pay (but through an app).
Every Shell station (Circle K co-branded or not) that I've come across has NFC on the pumps is either fully disabled or it reads and then fails. Every non-Shell Circle K (either standalone or Marathon co-branded) seem to be fine with NFC on the pumps. It seems that the NFC-functionality might have some political things regarding Shell? They seem to really want you to use their app, Chase Pay, or something else?
Apr 20, 2019, 10:58 pm
#6069
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Has anyone been to JCPenney recently? Supposedly NFC was disabled per this. However, it was working for me (though maybe only for Visa/MC) as of February, so if support was removed it was very recent.
Apr 21, 2019, 11:07 pm
#6070
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Window Seat
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Has anyone been to JCPenney recently? Supposedly NFC was disabled per this. However, it was working for me (though maybe only for Visa/MC) as of February, so if support was removed it was very recent.
Apr 22, 2019, 6:04 am
#6071
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Appears their corporate confirmed they shut off NFC at some other website. Unbelievable. What a backwards and stupid company. I haven't bought anything from them since 2017, and think little of them. Right as various issuers start to issue Contactless cards, they shut NFC off. Well, they are a very broken company. They have been very broken for a decade now. I am surprised they have survived this long.
The people in this country are hopeless when it comes to having the latest and greatest payment technology. Businesses shut it off and consumers are too stupid/lazy to use it.
Apr 22, 2019, 9:56 am
#6072
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Appears their corporate confirmed they shut off NFC at some other website. Unbelievable. What a backwards and stupid company. I haven't bought anything from them since 2017, and think little of them. Right as various issuers start to issue Contactless cards, they shut NFC off. Well, they are a very broken company. They have been very broken for a decade now. I am surprised they have survived this long.
Apr 22, 2019, 11:18 am
#6073
Join Date: Oct 2014
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It wouldn't surprise me if the finance guys there realized that they'd have to shell out the money to implement EMV contactless and concluded that disabling it entirely would cost them less and lose them few to no customers. The question now is whether other companies will end up coming to a similar conclusion.
Apr 22, 2019, 11:42 am
#6074
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Yep, confirmed by JCPenney's PR people: https://techcrunch.com/2019/04/22/jc...ped-apple-pay/
It doesn't explain why the Apple Pay option disappeared from the app too, though.
It doesn't explain why the Apple Pay option disappeared from the app too, though.
Apr 22, 2019, 11:48 am
#6075
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I went to a fast food place yesterday that uses Revel (no EMV yet there, just swipe/tap on Ingenico PIN pads). Google Pay gave me the same "enter your PIN" prompt that it's been occasionally giving me for the last couple of days, but the PIN pad actually acted like it accepted the tap. Went through the debit/credit prompt and the amount confirmation...and it declined. I figured it just declined without going to Barclaycard, so I tapped again after using my fingerprint and it was approved the second time.
However, I got an email/push notification from Barclaycard later that evening about the declined transaction. So it sounds like Barclaycard did decline because I didn't authenticate--except that I thought the PIN pad isn't supposed to accept the tap at all without such. Maybe this is just some weird oddity with MC and MSD contactless?
However, I got an email/push notification from Barclaycard later that evening about the declined transaction. So it sounds like Barclaycard did decline because I didn't authenticate--except that I thought the PIN pad isn't supposed to accept the tap at all without such. Maybe this is just some weird oddity with MC and MSD contactless?