Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
Apr 16, 2019, 6:59 pm
#6031
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Apr 16, 2019, 7:02 pm
#6032
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Maybe different now, who knows, not really somewhere I go frequently.
Apr 16, 2019, 10:40 pm
#6033
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Really, EMV should have been a legal mandate and not simply a card network rule change.
(BTW, speaking of not using EMV, I was at Melting Pot the other night and saw that they had I think FD130s. They weren't used, of course, just the regular swiper on the POS--at least according to the receipt, which said "S" for "entry method".)
Apr 17, 2019, 6:01 am
#6034
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On my way to work, I heard a commercial paid for by Speedway, telling everyone how they have awesome point of sale and other technology to keep our payment methods safe.
Do you accept contactless payments in store? Nope. What about at the pump? Nope.
The one near my house even has pumps that still have the handle that needs lifted up prior to pumping the gas.
That company is a joke.
Do you accept contactless payments in store? Nope. What about at the pump? Nope.
The one near my house even has pumps that still have the handle that needs lifted up prior to pumping the gas.
That company is a joke.
Apr 17, 2019, 6:05 am
#6035
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What I want to see from fast food joints are contactless only readers rather than EMV.
Apr 17, 2019, 9:50 am
#6036
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Note that Chipotle had a data breach not too long ago, so we'll see if that same playbook happens with them too.
If you're going to hand something out the window at the drive through, you might as well hand out something with a chip slot as well. Even if you're never going to hand it to customers for anything other than mobile wallets.
Apr 17, 2019, 12:15 pm
#6037
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By "force" I mean how it's been done with other companies who've had data breaches. Card networks sue said companies, using lack of EMV to show that they were negligent in protecting card data. Instead of rolling the dice on a trial, those companies settle for pennies on the dollar + EMV enablement--which usually ends up less than what the networks would be awarded in court.
Note that Chipotle had a data breach not too long ago, so we'll see if that same playbook happens with them too.
If you're going to hand something out the window at the drive through, you might as well hand out something with a chip slot as well. Even if you're never going to hand it to customers for anything other than mobile wallets.
Note that Chipotle had a data breach not too long ago, so we'll see if that same playbook happens with them too.
If you're going to hand something out the window at the drive through, you might as well hand out something with a chip slot as well. Even if you're never going to hand it to customers for anything other than mobile wallets.
Apr 17, 2019, 12:21 pm
#6038
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They do. I think that's because not accepting Interac was becoming a problem for them though. (Meanwhile, US debit cards are Visa/MC branded and can still be run as "credit".)
Apr 17, 2019, 1:46 pm
#6039
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Well, I would expect that we as customers are paying more at Chipotle because they have the higher chargebacks for not processing transactions as chip or contactless. They added QR readers that are consumer facing for their rewards program, so there is no reason they couldn't have done the same with a PIN and chip/tap pad (like other retailers have been doing). If they test them (like quesadillas), it should be in the SoCal market now that corporate is based there.
Apr 17, 2019, 2:55 pm
#6040
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Well, I would expect that we as customers are paying more at Chipotle because they have the higher chargebacks for not processing transactions as chip or contactless. They added QR readers that are consumer facing for their rewards program, so there is no reason they couldn't have done the same with a PIN and chip/tap pad (like other retailers have been doing). If they test them (like quesadillas), it should be in the SoCal market now that corporate is based there.
Apr 17, 2019, 7:11 pm
#6041
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[QUOTE=mikesyr18;31009684What I want to see from fast food joints are contactless only readers rather than EMV.[/QUOTE]
What's the rationale for that? There are a ton of cards out there that lack contactless, and a lot of people who don't want to use their phones in that role.
As a store owner I wouldn't want contactless-only card readers.
What's the rationale for that? There are a ton of cards out there that lack contactless, and a lot of people who don't want to use their phones in that role.
As a store owner I wouldn't want contactless-only card readers.
Apr 17, 2019, 7:35 pm
#6042
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Since Visa is claiming 100 million contactless cards by the end of this year, I could see most US issued cards having it in a few. Still, contactless can fail for various reasons and thus it'd still be a good idea to have some sort of backup--even if it's just magstripe and not EMV.
Apr 17, 2019, 7:46 pm
#6043
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I was looking around at the Chipotle subreddit and found this post. Some stuff in there (that I can't speak as to their truthfulness or likelihood of happening); emphasis mine:
Also, a possible breach of their online ordering system? They definitely can't get a break, it seems. Or make sure they don't end up in that situation again in the first place.
Honestly, if they just do what Tender Greens does with the contactless-only readers and make sure EMV contactless works with them, I'd almost be okay with it. Sure, they'd still be swiping otherwise, but I figure by the time contactless has enough customer penetration in the US any disabling/declining of magstripe transactions by issuers will likely be acceptable.
Like nickfarr said, he told us its designed that way to optimize throughput bc chipotle would rather eat the loss than not meet/exceed throughput goals. He also said its going away soon. Our store is getting a chip reader apparently? Idk. That will definitely kill throughput.
They did some trials with a chip system and it was a total disaster. The extra time it takes to run a chip absolutely crushed the wait times in stores. The only alternative is two registers, like many other places have. However, both of these systems are slower and require manpower that Chipotle cannot universally work a second register into its model across the board.
...
Of course, fraudsters are onto this. The question conclusion is whether or not online orders can make up the difference and get the line to be shorter.
...
Of course, fraudsters are onto this. The question conclusion is whether or not online orders can make up the difference and get the line to be shorter.
Honestly, if they just do what Tender Greens does with the contactless-only readers and make sure EMV contactless works with them, I'd almost be okay with it. Sure, they'd still be swiping otherwise, but I figure by the time contactless has enough customer penetration in the US any disabling/declining of magstripe transactions by issuers will likely be acceptable.
Apr 17, 2019, 8:24 pm
#6044
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 266
On my way to work, I heard a commercial paid for by Speedway, telling everyone how they have awesome point of sale and other technology to keep our payment methods safe.
Do you accept contactless payments in store? Nope. What about at the pump? Nope.
The one near my house even has pumps that still have the handle that needs lifted up prior to pumping the gas.
That company is a joke.
Do you accept contactless payments in store? Nope. What about at the pump? Nope.
The one near my house even has pumps that still have the handle that needs lifted up prior to pumping the gas.
That company is a joke.
Apr 17, 2019, 9:53 pm
#6045
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: SAN
Programs: UA
Posts: 204
Well, I would expect that we as customers are paying more at Chipotle because they have the higher chargebacks for not processing transactions as chip or contactless. They added QR readers that are consumer facing for their rewards program, so there is no reason they couldn't have done the same with a PIN and chip/tap pad (like other retailers have been doing). If they test them (like quesadillas), it should be in the SoCal market now that corporate is based there.
I haven't been in one in probably 7 years.Also, you can't assume they'll test something in the area closest to their HQ; we've seen this with some of the others.
I was looking around at the Chipotle subreddit and found this post. Some stuff in there (that I can't speak as to their truthfulness or likelihood of happening); emphasis mine:
Also, a possible breach of their online ordering system? They definitely can't get a break, it seems. Or make sure they don't end up in that situation again in the first place.
Honestly, if they just do what Tender Greens does with the contactless-only readers and make sure EMV contactless works with them, I'd almost be okay with it. Sure, they'd still be swiping otherwise, but I figure by the time contactless has enough customer penetration in the US any disabling/declining of magstripe transactions by issuers will likely be acceptable.
Also, a possible breach of their online ordering system? They definitely can't get a break, it seems. Or make sure they don't end up in that situation again in the first place.
Honestly, if they just do what Tender Greens does with the contactless-only readers and make sure EMV contactless works with them, I'd almost be okay with it. Sure, they'd still be swiping otherwise, but I figure by the time contactless has enough customer penetration in the US any disabling/declining of magstripe transactions by issuers will likely be acceptable.