Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
Mar 22, 2019, 7:48 pm
#5866
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What's so bad about Quick Chip?
Mar 22, 2019, 7:55 pm
#5867
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I actually wrote a post on the Barclaycard forums the other day explaining how QC makes cards like the Arrival+ not behave as people expect. Might be worth a read.
Mar 22, 2019, 10:38 pm
#5868
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I agree too, I particularly dislike Quick Chip as a "solely in America" issue. We always seem to find a way to deviate from what everyone else is doing, and screwing it up in the process. And I find it strange that PIN can even be disabled in the first place.
Chip & Sig is "OK," as many people might have been opposed to the chip migration out the gate. Got to ease people into it. The PIN could come later, (albeit unlikely as people whine far too much.) That being said we're not the only chip & sig country.
As I've said before, for something that is supposed to be "standard," it doesn't really seem to be.
Chip & Sig is "OK," as many people might have been opposed to the chip migration out the gate. Got to ease people into it. The PIN could come later, (albeit unlikely as people whine far too much.) That being said we're not the only chip & sig country.
As I've said before, for something that is supposed to be "standard," it doesn't really seem to be.
Basically, without it, I feel like contactless in the US is a second class payment method compared to EMV (or even swiping). How many times have we complained in this thread about having to convince cashiers at e.g. gas stations to push the necessary button on their end--especially if something other than a phone or watch is going to be tapped? I mean, ideally the terminal wouldn't come on at all for any payment until after that button's pushed, but people are also used to running their cards before transactions are totaled (and actually want to continue doing it). And I'm not sure there's even any desire by government and/or the payment networks to mandate anything, either, let alone the ability to.
In short, I think it comes down to whether you value PIN more than contactless. If the former, Quick Chip is a horrible idea that breaks your credit card (as I posted about above). If the latter, Quick Chip very well could significantly improve the payment experience if you're tapping a card or device, especially if it's implemented such that employee training is effectively no longer an issue.
Last edited by tmiw; Mar 22, 2019 at 10:48 pm
Mar 22, 2019, 10:43 pm
#5869
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More photos from Applebee's; sorry for the bad lighting.
EMV contactless is supported per the email receipt I got, too. ^ My friend used his Chase debit card to pay his half and no PIN was required, so it probably doesn't support debit routing--but he also couldn't remove until after approval. Maybe I'll go back eventually once I'm not working on minimum spend and see about online/offline PIN support, though I don't have high hopes.
EMV contactless is supported per the email receipt I got, too. ^ My friend used his Chase debit card to pay his half and no PIN was required, so it probably doesn't support debit routing--but he also couldn't remove until after approval. Maybe I'll go back eventually once I'm not working on minimum spend and see about online/offline PIN support, though I don't have high hopes.
Mar 22, 2019, 10:53 pm
#5870
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Tried Dominos again. Used Google Pay this time (Visa). It worked fine, but the terminal prompted for zip code... and then a slip came out that I had to sign. The receipt shows card type as Proximity and there is no EMV Information listed.
I am still pleased they even support it, despite the strange hassles involved (zip code and paper signature slip).
When I used EMV, there was no zip code prompt and no signature.
I am still pleased they even support it, despite the strange hassles involved (zip code and paper signature slip).
When I used EMV, there was no zip code prompt and no signature.
Mar 23, 2019, 11:10 am
#5871
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
Doing it right. Rather than hiding the reader from the customer!
The right way to face a PIN pad to a customer in a walk up window. This sandwich shop is doing it right! (Let’s hope the picture showed up. I’m on mobile)
Mar 23, 2019, 12:11 pm
#5872
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Mar 23, 2019, 1:52 pm
#5873
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They still have the public key for each card they issued, no? I would think that would be enough--unless they're not as unique as I've been thinking all along.
Mar 23, 2019, 3:52 pm
#5874
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 451
Over a month now and contactless at Giant still broken for MC and Discover. Discover via Google Pay rejects saying "card read error insert chip". Physical MC contactless gets rejected after PIN prompt and cashback prompt none with "Not Authorized". Visa works both physical and GP.
Mar 23, 2019, 7:35 pm
#5875
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They can authenticate the card, not the transaction. A lot of issuers, especially outside the US would compare the amount in the cryptogram with the amount in the authorisation message to risk rate the transaction.
Mar 23, 2019, 7:43 pm
#5876
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FYI, if you have a PenFed card and call and proactively ask for a replacement (at least on the older PenFed Cash Rewards visa with 5% cashback on gas at the pump + 0.25% on everything else), do not expect to receive a contactless enabled card. I asked for this and was told a new card would be sent.
New card arrives - no contactless. They may be burning through existing non-contactless stock first.
New card arrives - no contactless. They may be burning through existing non-contactless stock first.
Mar 23, 2019, 9:34 pm
#5877
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Went to an unbranded gas station on Radiant registers (old Radiant hardware). Small chain maybe 10 locations and inconsistent on what registers they use. MX915s have been there for a while and so has NFC, unmarked.
Today I was surprised to see the system was actually accepting Chip Cards.
The pinpad is completely blank and dead until the cashier totals the transaction and presses credit tender. At which point the screen turns on, blue lights come on, then the color Pay Pass graphic comes up with the 4 dots and a swipe/tap/insert prompt. Tap worked fine and I was surprised to see it went through on EMV Contactless.
I wonder what this outfit is doing right to make the NFC work perfectly, that the others on Radiant like Circle K and Kum N Go all don't seem to be doing right where using NFC is such a hassle...
This place didn't have any customized graphics on the pinpad as items were being scanned...
Today I was surprised to see the system was actually accepting Chip Cards.
The pinpad is completely blank and dead until the cashier totals the transaction and presses credit tender. At which point the screen turns on, blue lights come on, then the color Pay Pass graphic comes up with the 4 dots and a swipe/tap/insert prompt. Tap worked fine and I was surprised to see it went through on EMV Contactless.
I wonder what this outfit is doing right to make the NFC work perfectly, that the others on Radiant like Circle K and Kum N Go all don't seem to be doing right where using NFC is such a hassle...
This place didn't have any customized graphics on the pinpad as items were being scanned...
Mar 23, 2019, 10:20 pm
#5878
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At least it works outside at Circle K (where offered). At my local one, however, the terminal doesn't seem to respond at all with a contactless card even if the screen says "tap" on it. I haven't tried my phone in a while, however, so maybe that'll work better.
Mar 23, 2019, 10:33 pm
#5879
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: SFO
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Posts: 3,511
Before Quick Chip, outside of some transit use cases, these amounts should never have been different. The final amount settled could be more or less, but matching the signed amount with the authorised amount provided additional assurances over the transactions’s integrity. Especially true for contactless. Quick Chip introduces vulnerabilities because issuers now have to de-emphasise this risk parameter with the end result being of more fraudulent transactions being approved.
Mar 23, 2019, 11:15 pm
#5880
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