Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
Mar 20, 2019, 11:01 pm
#5851
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,059
Mrs. vanillabean started her Real ID application process today by filling out a form online to get a head start on her visit at DMV. She already had an appointment scheduled, but may choose to do a walk-in. I’ll ask her to pay with Apple Pay; oddly enough, we don’t have any contactless airline cards yet.
In that case, one would think that this would apply to online and kiosk transactions too, but those both accept credit cards.
Mar 21, 2019, 10:31 am
#5852
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,722
Hmm I finally made it to Five Below and they still use Point but they no longer seem to support EMV contactless unless it supports it after a few months of opening which it just has not too long ago
Mar 21, 2019, 11:52 am
#5853
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
I thought in the past it was impossible to route debit over anything other than Visa/MC for card not present transactions, hence why they had to accept everything online.
Mar 21, 2019, 12:46 pm
#5854
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,059
Mar 21, 2019, 1:28 pm
#5855
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
Mar 21, 2019, 6:06 pm
#5856
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 451
Question - does the visa mandate about contactless mean that places that only take MSD contactless will stop supporting contactless on April 13, or are they all equipped to support EMV contactless but do MSD for some reason?
I really do not know much about the technical side of these things so I was curious and wondering.
I really do not know much about the technical side of these things so I was curious and wondering.
Mar 21, 2019, 6:11 pm
#5857
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: SFO
Programs: *G^2, Bonvoyed, NEXUS
Posts: 3,512
Question - does the visa mandate about contactless mean that places that only take MSD contactless will stop supporting contactless on April 13, or are they all equipped to support EMV contactless but do MSD for some reason?
I really do not know much about the technical side of these things so I was curious and wondering.
I really do not know much about the technical side of these things so I was curious and wondering.
Mar 21, 2019, 7:10 pm
#5858
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
Just got an Arrival+ and have been on hold (7 minutes and counting) waiting for someone to activate my card for Google Pay. I wish they offered text/app verification like the vast majority of my other cards. 
Or just contactless on the card itself, even.
The good news is that the CVM list appears to be the same as posted on the EMV database. PIN Try Count is 0 since I haven't used it at a non-QC merchant yet. I have an experiment I want to run that I'll talk about in the other thread before that happens.
EDIT: I got asked security questions (from public records/credit file) by two separate CS representatives once they finally picked up. Good thing I started the process to add my card to Samsung Pay as well while I was still on hold, since they were able to activate both at the same time; I really didn't want to deal with that a second time so soon.
That said, it's possible that this requirement is slowing down EMV rollouts at the remaining holdouts (or causing contactless to not be enabled initially), even if there's not much impact to the ones who already have EMV and contactless.
Or just contactless on the card itself, even.The good news is that the CVM list appears to be the same as posted on the EMV database. PIN Try Count is 0 since I haven't used it at a non-QC merchant yet. I have an experiment I want to run that I'll talk about in the other thread before that happens.
EDIT: I got asked security questions (from public records/credit file) by two separate CS representatives once they finally picked up. Good thing I started the process to add my card to Samsung Pay as well while I was still on hold, since they were able to activate both at the same time; I really didn't want to deal with that a second time so soon.
April Rule is if they support contactless they must have enabled qVSDC (Visa’s name for EMV contactless). However the long standing rules for a few years has been if they support contact EMV and contactless then they are supposed to be qVSDC enabled. Unfortunately not reality at many places.
Last edited by tmiw; Mar 21, 2019 at 7:39 pm
Mar 21, 2019, 9:19 pm
#5859
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Livonia, MI
Posts: 197
Another contactless failure
This time it was at Five Guys. I tried tapping my Capital One Mastercard. The terminal said "Transaction declined". I inserted it and it worked. There was no prompt for a tip, so that's not the problem. There is no EMV information on the receipt. I suspect this is the same as Bob Evans where Mastercard fails, but Visa succeeds. Google Pay with Mastercard will probably work also.
People are not going to use contactless when these bugs happen so often. I really wish the terminal manufacturers would get their act together on this. It's simply not acceptable.
People are not going to use contactless when these bugs happen so often. I really wish the terminal manufacturers would get their act together on this. It's simply not acceptable.
Mar 22, 2019, 12:42 am
#5860
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
This time it was at Five Guys. I tried tapping my Capital One Mastercard. The terminal said "Transaction declined". I inserted it and it worked. There was no prompt for a tip, so that's not the problem. There is no EMV information on the receipt. I suspect this is the same as Bob Evans where Mastercard fails, but Visa succeeds. Google Pay with Mastercard will probably work also.
People are not going to use contactless when these bugs happen so often. I really wish the terminal manufacturers would get their act together on this. It's simply not acceptable.
People are not going to use contactless when these bugs happen so often. I really wish the terminal manufacturers would get their act together on this. It's simply not acceptable.
Also, lack of EMV information on the receipt unfortunately is no guarantee that MSD contactless was used. Even lack of EMV information on the receipt isn't a guarantee that the card wasn't inserted, since we apparently aren't doing close enough checks to ensure that the entire EMV spec's met and all. That's one of many problems with the entire EMV migration which I could make a whole post or few about.
Mar 22, 2019, 6:08 am
#5861
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Livonia, MI
Posts: 197
I hear you. It seems that the involved parties did the absolute bare minimum to migrate to EMV. The things I hate the most about the way we did it in this country are (in no particular order) Quick Chip, chip and signature for almost all card issuers, lack of PIN support even on terminals with keypads, hit or miss contactless functionality on terminals which have it activated, and allowing PIN bypass on cards with PIN priority (SDFCU does this at least domestically, but First Tech does not).
Mar 22, 2019, 9:24 am
#5862
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
I hear you. It seems that the involved parties did the absolute bare minimum to migrate to EMV. The things I hate the most about the way we did it in this country are (in no particular order) Quick Chip, chip and signature for almost all card issuers, lack of PIN support even on terminals with keypads, hit or miss contactless functionality on terminals which have it activated, and allowing PIN bypass on cards with PIN priority (SDFCU does this at least domestically, but First Tech does not).
Mar 22, 2019, 1:44 pm
#5863
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
I hear you. It seems that the involved parties did the absolute bare minimum to migrate to EMV. The things I hate the most about the way we did it in this country are (in no particular order) Quick Chip, chip and signature for almost all card issuers, lack of PIN support even on terminals with keypads, hit or miss contactless functionality on terminals which have it activated, and allowing PIN bypass on cards with PIN priority (SDFCU does this at least domestically, but First Tech does not).
Mar 22, 2019, 5:49 pm
#5864
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: SFO
Programs: *G^2, Bonvoyed, NEXUS
Posts: 3,512
Its bad software by merchants or their processors.
Mar 22, 2019, 7:11 pm
#5865
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: SAN
Programs: UA
Posts: 204
I hear you. It seems that the involved parties did the absolute bare minimum to migrate to EMV. The things I hate the most about the way we did it in this country are (in no particular order) Quick Chip, chip and signature for almost all card issuers, lack of PIN support even on terminals with keypads, hit or miss contactless functionality on terminals which have it activated, and allowing PIN bypass on cards with PIN priority (SDFCU does this at least domestically, but First Tech does not).
Chip & Sig is "OK," as many people might have been opposed to the chip migration out the gate. Got to ease people into it. The PIN could come later, (albeit unlikely as people whine far too much.) That being said we're not the only chip & sig country.
As I've said before, for something that is supposed to be "standard," it doesn't really seem to be.