Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
Mar 13, 2019, 12:13 am
#5806
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
Here's an interesting item I found, after learning about the "Gemini PDA" a few days ago.
Paymo Smart Wallet
Looks like a dedicated Google wallet device. Not sure how popular something like that would be although reading about it a few days ago, it looks like some were interested in a feature where you could lend it to others to make payments on your behalf within specified limits.
(Please note it is one of those deposit schemes that are popular these days and not an actual thing, yet.)
Paymo Smart Wallet
Looks like a dedicated Google wallet device. Not sure how popular something like that would be although reading about it a few days ago, it looks like some were interested in a feature where you could lend it to others to make payments on your behalf within specified limits.
(Please note it is one of those deposit schemes that are popular these days and not an actual thing, yet.)
For it to work right, it is important that the cashier enters in the amount on their side before you tap. Sale-Credit-*enter amount*- then tap.
It has been a few years and I would have expected First Data to fix these terminals by now. Also I don't think they work with the Contactless American Express.
It has been a few years and I would have expected First Data to fix these terminals by now. Also I don't think they work with the Contactless American Express.
Mar 13, 2019, 12:27 am
#5807
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,722
Apparently some Taco Bells locations have contactless enabled already. Well I know my local one does not as of a week ago. Most likely they do somewhere in California as it has almost been a few months since it was announced.
Mar 13, 2019, 1:43 am
#5808
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,060
Contactless was still failing at Safeway in Cupertino tonight for Discover.
Mar 13, 2019, 6:40 am
#5809
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: DEL
Posts: 1,056
Thanks guys! I actually SM'd them and here is the response I received:
I will be happy to review your inquiry about the plastic card for your account ending in xxxx.
Xxxx, the option to switch your metal card to a plastic card is not available. Since, your card is damaged we have completed you replacement card request. It should arrive at the mailing address for your account in three to five business days.
I will be happy to review your inquiry about the plastic card for your account ending in xxxx.
Xxxx, the option to switch your metal card to a plastic card is not available. Since, your card is damaged we have completed you replacement card request. It should arrive at the mailing address for your account in three to five business days.
Mar 13, 2019, 7:18 am
#5810
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,135
For it to work right, it is important that the cashier enters in the amount on their side before you tap. Sale-Credit-*enter amount*- then tap.
It has been a few years and I would have expected First Data to fix these terminals by now. Also I don't think they work with the Contactless American Express.
It has been a few years and I would have expected First Data to fix these terminals by now. Also I don't think they work with the Contactless American Express.
Mar 14, 2019, 11:59 am
#5811
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
Out of curiosity, is there anything different about how gas station transactions happen inside that will indicate whether EMV's enabled outside as well? Yesterday I realized that one of the independent stations here has contactless readers outside, which makes me think that they might get EMV outside before the major chains.
FWIW the iSC250s inside the gas station in question still seemed to do the whole "insert/swipe at any time and only enable contactless when the cashier pushes the button" thing.
FWIW the iSC250s inside the gas station in question still seemed to do the whole "insert/swipe at any time and only enable contactless when the cashier pushes the button" thing.
Mar 15, 2019, 2:15 pm
#5812
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
Well I got an email that Walmart is discontinuing Savings Catcher which is one of the large reasons Walmart customers use Walmart Pay.
Maybe pigs will fly soon and Walmart Pay will go away for regular NFC Contactless.
Maybe pigs will fly soon and Walmart Pay will go away for regular NFC Contactless.
Mar 15, 2019, 3:09 pm
#5813
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
Apparently Arco still uses the debit-only mobile wallet signage even at the locations that take credit. I was really confused today and thought that one location near me stopped taking credit until I saw the "pay with credit" option on the display. No EMV info on the receipt after tapping but I didn't really expect Arco to have EMV at all outside either.
As mentioned elsewhere, I think a bigger indication would be if Walmart discontinued Walmart Pay. I don't really see them enabling it any time soon, unfortunately.
As mentioned elsewhere, I think a bigger indication would be if Walmart discontinued Walmart Pay. I don't really see them enabling it any time soon, unfortunately.
Mar 16, 2019, 1:19 am
#5814
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Window Seat
Programs: National Executive, HHonors Gold, IHG Platinum, Hyatt Visitor
Posts: 2,495
But they are marketing this "service" pretty heavily. It is still on their plastic bags.
At this point it is an efficiency issue and with all the Contactless cards out there, they need to offer it. I really credit Costco for getting this ball rolling in the US.
Mar 16, 2019, 1:21 am
#5815
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Window Seat
Programs: National Executive, HHonors Gold, IHG Platinum, Hyatt Visitor
Posts: 2,495
Used the Contactless American Express again at Safeway tonight. No issues. EMV Contactless.
Also got to use the Visa via clunky garbage Quick Chip over at Smiths. I guess that won't happen much longer.
I have also noticed a quirk with Save Mart (who still hasn't fixed some stores with non-working Contactless). They are on NCR with Quick Chip. It is pretty quick. However, if you do a transaction where you wait until the end of the transaction to insert the card and select the tender type, it does not appear to process as Quick Chip but goes as regular EMV as it won't let you take the card out until after the transaction approves and the receipt is printing. The Quick Chip seems to only work if you insert the card while the cashier is scanning items (or in the case of self checkout, before you press finish and pay and select card payment type).
Also got to use the Visa via clunky garbage Quick Chip over at Smiths. I guess that won't happen much longer.
I have also noticed a quirk with Save Mart (who still hasn't fixed some stores with non-working Contactless). They are on NCR with Quick Chip. It is pretty quick. However, if you do a transaction where you wait until the end of the transaction to insert the card and select the tender type, it does not appear to process as Quick Chip but goes as regular EMV as it won't let you take the card out until after the transaction approves and the receipt is printing. The Quick Chip seems to only work if you insert the card while the cashier is scanning items (or in the case of self checkout, before you press finish and pay and select card payment type).
Mar 16, 2019, 8:39 am
#5816
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 266
After one time using Wal Mart Pay, where I got the "need receipt at the door" treatment, and had no receipt, I decided not using this ever again. The nearby Wal Mart is one of the last 24 hour ones in the area and lately it has become very "high security" at night with two contracted security guards who check receipts VERY closely (didn't used to have anyone at the door late at night until the 3 in lousy neighborhoods all started to close at Midnight). I have no idea what would happen if one of those non-Wal Mart employees was faced with a Wal Mart Pay transaction but I don't want to find out.
But they are marketing this "service" pretty heavily. It is still on their plastic bags.
At this point it is an efficiency issue and with all the Contactless cards out there, they need to offer it. I really credit Costco for getting this ball rolling in the US.
But they are marketing this "service" pretty heavily. It is still on their plastic bags.
At this point it is an efficiency issue and with all the Contactless cards out there, they need to offer it. I really credit Costco for getting this ball rolling in the US.
With Savings Catcher going away, it's no point in Walmart Pay besides the data even then, you scan your receipt at the bottom since they brought that back from last summer after they deleted it.
Mar 16, 2019, 11:46 am
#5817
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: SAN
Programs: UA
Posts: 204
Also, I've found the list of places that take Google Pay, which shows up at the bottom when you open it up, is not always 100% accurate. I know some places have a terminal behind the counter that does contactless, but lately the Shake Shack in the La Jolla mall started showing up so I went there about a week ago and there was nothing for contactless. They still slid the card using the built-in magstripe reader on the POS screen.
Another strange observation, transactions at Five Guys don't show up in the transaction log. I also didn't have the alert at the top of the screen with the transaction summary.
Mar 16, 2019, 2:39 pm
#5818
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
I know of one JITB in the SD area that has EMV/contactless, actually. I have no idea what's controlling the rollout order.
Also, I've found the list of places that take Google Pay, which shows up at the bottom when you open it up, is not always 100% accurate. I know some places have a terminal behind the counter that does contactless, but lately the Shake Shack in the La Jolla mall started showing up so I went there about a week ago and there was nothing for contactless. They still slid the card using the built-in magstripe reader on the POS screen.
Regardless, I think it's coming to all of them eventually. It might just be a while for some.
Mar 16, 2019, 3:10 pm
#5819
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
After one time using Wal Mart Pay, where I got the "need receipt at the door" treatment, and had no receipt, I decided not using this ever again. The nearby Wal Mart is one of the last 24 hour ones in the area and lately it has become very "high security" at night with two contracted security guards who check receipts VERY closely (didn't used to have anyone at the door late at night until the 3 in lousy neighborhoods all started to close at Midnight). I have no idea what would happen if one of those non-Wal Mart employees was faced with a Wal Mart Pay transaction but I don't want to find out.
But they are marketing this "service" pretty heavily. It is still on their plastic bags.
At this point it is an efficiency issue and with all the Contactless cards out there, they need to offer it. I really credit Costco for getting this ball rolling in the US.
But they are marketing this "service" pretty heavily. It is still on their plastic bags.
At this point it is an efficiency issue and with all the Contactless cards out there, they need to offer it. I really credit Costco for getting this ball rolling in the US.
Mar 16, 2019, 3:11 pm
#5820
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
They're still there at the one I went to today. The sticker did look like it was peeling, though, so I suspect that might be what happened at yours.
I know of one JITB in the SD area that has EMV/contactless, actually. I have no idea what's controlling the rollout order.
Another Shake Shack is opening on Monday. It might be worth a check to see if they do Square equipment from the start.
Regardless, I think it's coming to all of them eventually. It might just be a while for some.
I know of one JITB in the SD area that has EMV/contactless, actually. I have no idea what's controlling the rollout order.
Another Shake Shack is opening on Monday. It might be worth a check to see if they do Square equipment from the start.
Regardless, I think it's coming to all of them eventually. It might just be a while for some.