Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
Feb 20, 2019, 2:53 pm
#5701
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I don't have any Kroger brands with self-checkout. However, I did see my local Ralphs did add a customer-facing scanner below their mounted terminal inline with the cashier belt scanner. I use it to scan my loyalty card, but I assume it was added for the QR payment (whether Kroger Pay or Chase Pay) - I just didn't realize it. I haven't tried it for payment, but maybe when Chase Freedom does 5% on supermarkets or Chase Pay. I expect it might be turned on, but not advertised. I encourage others to try it.
I am also quite sure that Kroger is doing a special rate via Chase Pay that is better than its normal Visa rate. Of course, the best question is if you could use it at those non-Visa credit locations. Seems feasible because they are routing differently (Visa itself doesn't do QR I think), but unsure how it is programmed. Further, Kroger fuel pumps also have a mounted scanner (for loyalty cards). Seems trivial to turn them on for QR code payment.
Kroger Pay has launched in some Ohio markets (their corporate backyard), but it seems built into the existing Kroger app (with rewards and coupons) - just needs to be turned on for a given market.
https://www.kroger.com/f/kroger-mobile-pay-faqs
So, looks like we will finally get widespread QR from Kroger this year, but no contactless.
I am also quite sure that Kroger is doing a special rate via Chase Pay that is better than its normal Visa rate. Of course, the best question is if you could use it at those non-Visa credit locations. Seems feasible because they are routing differently (Visa itself doesn't do QR I think), but unsure how it is programmed. Further, Kroger fuel pumps also have a mounted scanner (for loyalty cards). Seems trivial to turn them on for QR code payment.
Kroger Pay has launched in some Ohio markets (their corporate backyard), but it seems built into the existing Kroger app (with rewards and coupons) - just needs to be turned on for a given market.
https://www.kroger.com/f/kroger-mobile-pay-faqs
So, looks like we will finally get widespread QR from Kroger this year, but no contactless.
As for Visa and QR, it is indeed something they officially support. In fact, the data embedded in the Chase Pay QR code is effectively encoded as EMV tags.
Feb 20, 2019, 5:41 pm
#5702
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Looks like Lowe's is supposedly getting the ability to insert debit cards in a few months. I'm not sure if I should hold out any hope for contactless there, though.
Also, maybe off topic, but has anyone else noticed that the EMV thread has gotten significantly quieter over the last year or so? Indication that many of the overseas acceptance issues have been solved, perhaps (even if it's effectively by using contactless instead)?
Also, maybe off topic, but has anyone else noticed that the EMV thread has gotten significantly quieter over the last year or so? Indication that many of the overseas acceptance issues have been solved, perhaps (even if it's effectively by using contactless instead)?
Feb 20, 2019, 7:23 pm
#5703
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 28
Looks like Safeway is still having issues with non-Visa. AMEX via Apple Pay failed today. I think the message was "Chip read declined". This location has had rock solid contactless AMEX support for months - up until the last few days.
Feb 21, 2019, 10:37 am
#5704
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MC still had issues this morning too with the "multiple cards" error when trying to use Google Pay. The worst thing is that it's definitely disabling the contactless reader altogether afterward, as it didn't even recognize my phone again nor my CFU contactless card.
Feb 21, 2019, 11:53 am
#5705
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,250
Why is it every time that Safeway updates something it’s terrible in nature? They didn’t think to test it with a MasterCard?
Feb 21, 2019, 12:45 pm
#5706
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Location: San Diego, CA
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BTW is this a customer-facing display at a Burger King? (I've been looking around on Google Maps to see if I can find any NCR locations in my area, but the photos aren't in good enough detail to confirm for sure.)
Feb 21, 2019, 4:54 pm
#5707
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 451
Another try at my contactless Revolut card and another fail - went to Advance Auto Parts and it said "card must be inserted" after I tapped it. It would not tap at Sheetz either, but that also prompted an error when I put it in.
Here's how a receipt from AA Parts looked like, interestingly enough:
First time I've seen it go as far as say that offline PIN method was used.
So does that sounds like it's MSD contactless and Revolut just does not support it?
Here's how a receipt from AA Parts looked like, interestingly enough:
First time I've seen it go as far as say that offline PIN method was used.
So does that sounds like it's MSD contactless and Revolut just does not support it?
Feb 21, 2019, 5:46 pm
#5708
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Advance supports contactless now? I thought they didn't before?
Feb 21, 2019, 5:56 pm
#5709
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 451
It showed up on my Google Pay list so I went in and saw that they do - the screen says swipe tap insert. Next time I ever buy from them, I'll try tapping US card, but it should work.
Feb 22, 2019, 12:03 am
#5710
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Window Seat
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It worked great! I tapped “Mobile Payment” on the self checkout and it said Chase Pay in small letters and I scanned the QR code. It worked. The receipt showed it as a regular Visa card but said SCANNED where it normally says chip read, so I’m guessing they’re going to get card present rates here.
it caught me by surprise as the button wasn’t there yesterday.
it caught me by surprise as the button wasn’t there yesterday.
Feb 22, 2019, 12:33 am
#5711
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,056
QR Codes work just fine. But the ship has sailed and they are a failure. Chase already issuing Contactless cards and not promoting Chase Pay anymore shows where this has gone. QR Code based payment/loyalty started with and will end with with Starbucks. It is interesting how it has worked for them and failed for everyone else, or will fail for everyone else.
Feb 22, 2019, 1:25 am
#5712
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Outside my local Target tonight:
I'm fairly sure there were Chase Pay promos as recently as a month or two ago. In fact, there was one back in December that offered 1,500 UR if I did like 5 transactions greater than something like $20 (I forget the exact conditions). I wouldn't really call that "giving up" on it.
Additionally, there is a significant contingent of Americans who believe QR is more convenient than NFC. The right QR-based system could have a chance here, but I suspect that such a system will still contain many of the same elements from cards/contactless that merchants like Kroger absolutely hate.
BTW Starbucks uses a regular barcode and not QR. However, that's probably not a huge difference in the context of this discussion.
QR Codes work just fine. But the ship has sailed and they are a failure. Chase already issuing Contactless cards and not promoting Chase Pay anymore shows where this has gone. QR Code based payment/loyalty started with and will end with with Starbucks. It is interesting how it has worked for them and failed for everyone else, or will fail for everyone else.
Additionally, there is a significant contingent of Americans who believe QR is more convenient than NFC. The right QR-based system could have a chance here, but I suspect that such a system will still contain many of the same elements from cards/contactless that merchants like Kroger absolutely hate.
BTW Starbucks uses a regular barcode and not QR. However, that's probably not a huge difference in the context of this discussion.
Feb 22, 2019, 2:48 pm
#5714
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So here's something interesting--apparently BK uses Micros hardware at a few locations too. Or well, at least one standalone location in this area anyway (which I'm fairly sure isn't some weird licensed one since it's nowhere near an airport or hotel). No PIN pads, either.
Anyway, I'll probably just wait until they enable EMV at non-NCR locations before adding the rest of the locations.
Hmm, wonder why it was marked as not supporting it on the map before.
Anyway, I'll probably just wait until they enable EMV at non-NCR locations before adding the rest of the locations.
Hmm, wonder why it was marked as not supporting it on the map before.
Feb 23, 2019, 12:29 am
#5715
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Window Seat
Programs: National Executive, HHonors Gold, IHG Platinum, Hyatt Visitor
Posts: 2,495
So here's something interesting--apparently BK uses Micros hardware at a few locations too. Or well, at least one standalone location in this area anyway (which I'm fairly sure isn't some weird licensed one since it's nowhere near an airport or hotel). No PIN pads, either.
Anyway, I'll probably just wait until they enable EMV at non-NCR locations before adding the rest of the locations.
Hmm, wonder why it was marked as not supporting it on the map before.
Anyway, I'll probably just wait until they enable EMV at non-NCR locations before adding the rest of the locations.
Hmm, wonder why it was marked as not supporting it on the map before.
