Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
Feb 10, 2019, 1:55 pm
#5611
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: SAN
Programs: UA
Posts: 204
My nearby Vons apparently has self-checkouts now, and shows "insert/tap/swipe" on the display once you enter your phone number/scan your loyalty card. That's the good news.
The bad news is that I got an "insert chip" error with the Citi Pay app on the first attempt. The second attempt caused the terminal to tell me to look at my phone for instructions. I just gave up and inserted at that point. I'm going to guess that they got the the EMV contactless update, so it might be worthwhile to try with Google Pay or a physical contactless card next time.
The bad news is that I got an "insert chip" error with the Citi Pay app on the first attempt. The second attempt caused the terminal to tell me to look at my phone for instructions. I just gave up and inserted at that point. I'm going to guess that they got the the EMV contactless update, so it might be worthwhile to try with Google Pay or a physical contactless card next time.
Hope mine is next to get Self-Checkout!
Feb 10, 2019, 3:45 pm
#5612
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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Also people on Twitter have been saying that Ikea is not supporting Apple Pay anymore and I've had issues with it reading my phone too but a ctls card did read alright which is very odd. No idea whats going on with Ikea and I am interested in hearing around others experiences at Ikea.
Yeah, I almost never had problems with Google Pay before, but that was before the EMV contactless update. If nothing else, we can at least see if the issue is Citi's app being buggy or there's an issue on the POS side (possibly only affecting MC).
Feb 10, 2019, 7:44 pm
#5613
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As an update, Google Pay with a Visa debit card worked at Vons just now. Definitely EMV contactless, and as expected I couldn't skip PIN entry (error beeps with green and yellow keys; presumably pushing X will cancel the transaction). Sounds like it's either an issue with Mastercard contactless or an issue with the Citi Pay app, but I don't foresee using the latter for much longer anyway.
Feb 11, 2019, 3:09 pm
#5614
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I tried tapping my CSR at work's cafeteria today and the iPP350 was having a hard time responding to the card. I ultimately had to tap with the back of the card facing the display for it to go through. Maybe YMMV with regard to metal cards and contactless?
Feb 11, 2019, 3:34 pm
#5615
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: SEA/ATL
Posts: 61
Target's new UI is out and the four circles are gone.
Feb 11, 2019, 7:51 pm
#5617
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Caracas
Programs: Former AA PLT/GLD, A3 *G, Priority Pass
Posts: 1,144
I am a fan of contactless cards!
I have used Google/Samsung/Apple day since the days they launched and I also love to pay with my phone. Recently though, I've been living in the Netherlands where Everything is tap & pay contactless and I really miss this feature in my American cards, because in fact.... I prefer to use contactless than using Apple Pay. The phone weights too much in the hand, the process takes a little bit longer... I think.. that my preferred way is contactless card. I just like it so much!!
I was told by Citibank that the new cards Rewards+ has also rolled out contactless per Citi representative. That and the Costco one is contactless. Chase will enter the contactless game and I know you can ask for the AMEX Plat contactless. I just wished more cards were contactless! I never understood why the US is so slow to adopt new technologies, same thing happened with the EMV chip.
A contactless card is a joy to use
I have used Google/Samsung/Apple day since the days they launched and I also love to pay with my phone. Recently though, I've been living in the Netherlands where Everything is tap & pay contactless and I really miss this feature in my American cards, because in fact.... I prefer to use contactless than using Apple Pay. The phone weights too much in the hand, the process takes a little bit longer... I think.. that my preferred way is contactless card. I just like it so much!!
I was told by Citibank that the new cards Rewards+ has also rolled out contactless per Citi representative. That and the Costco one is contactless. Chase will enter the contactless game and I know you can ask for the AMEX Plat contactless. I just wished more cards were contactless! I never understood why the US is so slow to adopt new technologies, same thing happened with the EMV chip.
A contactless card is a joy to use
Feb 11, 2019, 8:47 pm
#5618
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 451
I find that taking my phone out and unlocking it is quicker than taking my wallet out and pulling out my card so I prefer to use the phone even if I do have a contactless card 
Feb 11, 2019, 9:24 pm
#5619
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Caracas
Programs: Former AA PLT/GLD, A3 *G, Priority Pass
Posts: 1,144
The reason is weight, I use large phones and XL phones and while these don't bother me in normal daily handling when it comes to pay I usually have other things at hand, what I am buying, maybe my purse and allocating a single hand to complete the process is bothering. The phone just takes too much space is my hand, as a petite female my hands are very small.
So, then you think ok.. then she has to take the card out of her purse and then her wallet and still it would sound more practical to just pay with the phone. Yes its true.... BUT... Most of the times when I know I'm going out or make a purchase I take one of my CC out of my purse and just carry it in the pocket of my jeans if I think I'm gonna be doing tap and pay. That why is even more enjoyable for me than using Apple Pay. The cards just weights almost nothing, the footprint is smaller and there's a little secs lag less than waiting the Apple Pay authentication imho.
Also think about this... a person that doesn't know much about technology... an old relative or something it would be easier for the person to use the card without any previous learning curve.
Feb 11, 2019, 9:37 pm
#5620
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Caracas
Programs: Former AA PLT/GLD, A3 *G, Priority Pass
Posts: 1,144
Or for low income segments, emerging markets where the access to a smartphone would be restricted by purchasing power. Of course this contradicts a but because usually emerging markets doesn't have the infrastructure to carry on these payments, but at least for example. Think about someone in US or EU that for XY reasons wouldn't be able to afford a smartphone with these capabilities having the card would make sense.
I also, might be a little bit old school but sometimes the card is nice. i.e construction, design you like to see/hold a product that is nicely made.
I also, might be a little bit old school but sometimes the card is nice. i.e construction, design you like to see/hold a product that is nicely made.
Feb 11, 2019, 9:56 pm
#5621
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Indianapolis area
Programs: Marriott Lifetime Titanium
Posts: 434
The physical card is ideal for contactless transit payments, you don't have to worry about your phone battery having a mid trip early death.
Feb 11, 2019, 10:21 pm
#5622
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: SAN
Programs: UA
Posts: 204
I'd prefer a physical card as well. For me it's easier to just pull out a card instead of the phone, but the finger unlock in the Key 2 makes it easier. Otherwise I probably wouldn't bother most of the time.
And yes apparently the update at Vons broke Google pay? I just tried it today and although it beeped like it worked it didn't actually take, and the cashier said that 'Apple Pay' hasn't been working. He also pulled out some notepad with some kind of form on it, i'm not sure if it is some kind of defect record or what he was filling out right after that happened. But it seems like they might be keeping track of the issues so it sounds like it must be something on their end.
And yes apparently the update at Vons broke Google pay? I just tried it today and although it beeped like it worked it didn't actually take, and the cashier said that 'Apple Pay' hasn't been working. He also pulled out some notepad with some kind of form on it, i'm not sure if it is some kind of defect record or what he was filling out right after that happened. But it seems like they might be keeping track of the issues so it sounds like it must be something on their end.
Feb 11, 2019, 10:28 pm
#5623
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
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For me it depends on context. At 7-Eleven, for instance, it's easier to use my phone since I already have it out for their app. I can also see my contactless card getting more use at places that insert cards for customers--once contactless cards become more common, of course.
Didn't someone else say that Citi supposedly had another card available with contactless? From what I remember that didn't pan out. I would have expected way more marketing from them if it was more than just Costco.
Also, keep in mind that issuers got burned on contactless the first time around, with the complaints from customers and the lack of merchant support and all. It's no surprise they're taking contactless slow this time. If it turns out that Chase gained customers or otherwise made more from their rollout, others will likely follow very quickly.
I don't think the update fully broke it. As mentioned last night, Google Pay with a Visa debit card worked fine (albeit with mandatory PIN). I haven't tried a Visa credit card yet to see if that has issues.
I was told by Citibank that the new cards Rewards+ has also rolled out contactless per Citi representative. That and the Costco one is contactless. Chase will enter the contactless game and I know you can ask for the AMEX Plat contactless. I just wished more cards were contactless! I never understood why the US is so slow to adopt new technologies, same thing happened with the EMV chip.
Also, keep in mind that issuers got burned on contactless the first time around, with the complaints from customers and the lack of merchant support and all. It's no surprise they're taking contactless slow this time. If it turns out that Chase gained customers or otherwise made more from their rollout, others will likely follow very quickly.
And yes apparently the update at Vons broke Google pay? I just tried it today and although it beeped like it worked it didn't actually take, and the cashier said that 'Apple Pay' hasn't been working. He also pulled out some notepad with some kind of form on it, i'm not sure if it is some kind of defect record or what he was filling out right after that happened. But it seems like they might be keeping track of the issues so it sounds like it must be something on their end.
Feb 11, 2019, 10:52 pm
#5624
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: SAN
Programs: UA
Posts: 204
For me it depends on context. At 7-Eleven, for instance, it's easier to use my phone since I already have it out for their app. I can also see my contactless card getting more use at places that insert cards for customers--once contactless cards become more common, of course.
Didn't someone else say that Citi supposedly had another card available with contactless? From what I remember that didn't pan out. I would have expected way more marketing from them if it was more than just Costco.
Also, keep in mind that issuers got burned on contactless the first time around, with the complaints from customers and the lack of merchant support and all. It's no surprise they're taking contactless slow this time. If it turns out that Chase gained customers or otherwise made more from their rollout, others will likely follow very quickly.
I don't think the update fully broke it. As mentioned last night, Google Pay with a Visa debit card worked fine (albeit with mandatory PIN). I haven't tried a Visa credit card yet to see if that has issues.
Didn't someone else say that Citi supposedly had another card available with contactless? From what I remember that didn't pan out. I would have expected way more marketing from them if it was more than just Costco.
Also, keep in mind that issuers got burned on contactless the first time around, with the complaints from customers and the lack of merchant support and all. It's no surprise they're taking contactless slow this time. If it turns out that Chase gained customers or otherwise made more from their rollout, others will likely follow very quickly.
I don't think the update fully broke it. As mentioned last night, Google Pay with a Visa debit card worked fine (albeit with mandatory PIN). I haven't tried a Visa credit card yet to see if that has issues.
Feb 11, 2019, 11:05 pm
#5625
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Well I can't say for sure, I just had one shot at it, but from what he said he made it sound like everyone's been having an issue. Maybe only debit cards have been working, and most people probably don't use those? Don't know really, but clearly there's some known issue.
Also, it looks like AmEx is changing their terms and conditions to reflect the elimination of the ExpressPay brand. It also reserves the right to kill contactless functionality at any time and provides an opt-out for those who don't want it:
