Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
Oct 13, 2018, 11:47 pm
#4831
Join Date: Mar 2011
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So Cenex seems to support EMV Contactless for transactions inside the station. I was at a Cenex with Radiant POS and was able to successfully tap and EMV information all showed up on the receipt. I was pretty surprised.
Oct 14, 2018, 12:19 am
#4832
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,722
So I had a weird experience with IBM/Toshiba and a Verifone MX915 at an indy grocer G&W Foods in Girard, KS. This store previously had Storeline so the IBM/Toshiba was a pretty new install.
Pinpad screens look identical to Kroger. Insert or swipe card. Nothing about tap and no green dots. But since some of the Price Choppers in Kansas City use a similar IBM/Toshiba with no indication you can tap, but they do let you tap, I tried to tap. After nothing happened, even after the cashier totaled and pressed pinpad tender, I waited another 5-10 seconds, then inserted the card. Not authorized, said the pinpad. I tried again. Not authorized again, says the pinpad. I am confused and check my phone to see if fraud alerts are coming through. Nothing. Cashier shrugs. I ask what cards they take. The cashier then tells me the store doesn't accept American Express (actually a lot of grocery stores in rural Kansas and Missouri don't seem to accept this card type). But as she is clearing out the pinpad the four dots briefly show up on the pinpad top and then she clears it again for some reason and this time the dots disappeared after a couple seconds and never returned.
Pinpad screens look identical to Kroger. Insert or swipe card. Nothing about tap and no green dots. But since some of the Price Choppers in Kansas City use a similar IBM/Toshiba with no indication you can tap, but they do let you tap, I tried to tap. After nothing happened, even after the cashier totaled and pressed pinpad tender, I waited another 5-10 seconds, then inserted the card. Not authorized, said the pinpad. I tried again. Not authorized again, says the pinpad. I am confused and check my phone to see if fraud alerts are coming through. Nothing. Cashier shrugs. I ask what cards they take. The cashier then tells me the store doesn't accept American Express (actually a lot of grocery stores in rural Kansas and Missouri don't seem to accept this card type). But as she is clearing out the pinpad the four dots briefly show up on the pinpad top and then she clears it again for some reason and this time the dots disappeared after a couple seconds and never returned.
Interesting they actually paid to have EMV ctls enabled as not all with Radiant do that and I've never seen a Radiant Cenex either just Commander that do support msd contactless. Passport Cenex do not seem to support contactless at all at least the ones I've been to that used to pre-emv but no longer support it.
Oct 14, 2018, 12:33 am
#4833
Join Date: Mar 2011
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That is indeed very odd behavior and that grocery store is on the ctls locator so it should probably be working. Also the two Price Choppers in KC that use Toshiba are McKeever's Price Chopper(EMV Insert or Swipe Card with four dots and msd ctls) and Queen's(Was not EMV the last time I visited one). They do look quite a lot like Kroger but slightly different here is McKeever's https://imgur.com/TtE17TZ
Interesting they actually paid to have EMV ctls enabled as not all with Radiant do that and I've never seen a Radiant Cenex either just Commander that do support msd contactless. Passport Cenex do not seem to support contactless at all at least the ones I've been to that used to pre-emv but no longer support it.
Interesting they actually paid to have EMV ctls enabled as not all with Radiant do that and I've never seen a Radiant Cenex either just Commander that do support msd contactless. Passport Cenex do not seem to support contactless at all at least the ones I've been to that used to pre-emv but no longer support it.
I went to another IBM/Toshiba store around there, Apple Market in Columbus, KS (actually appears to be owned by G&W Food) and it had the dots on the screen at all times and tap worked fine (did not show any EMV information on the receipt though).
The Cenex with Radiant had its c-store as Kum N Go but the card processed through the Cenex network and the pinpad was a bit different than Kum N Go typically is (merchant information when I pulled the transaction up on my card's website kicks back to Cenex in some other state).
Oct 14, 2018, 2:23 am
#4834
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,722
Queen's is EMV now and nothing showed up on the screen about tapping, but you could tap. Zero EMV or even card information on that receipt, just a single line that said the tender type and amount (not even an auth code or anything). McKeever's I went to twice and once it had the dots, the other time it didn't, but both times it allowed tap. One of those was on self checkout.
I went to another IBM/Toshiba store around there, Apple Market in Columbus, KS (actually appears to be owned by G&W Food) and it had the dots on the screen at all times and tap worked fine (did not show any EMV information on the receipt though).
The Cenex with Radiant had its c-store as Kum N Go but the card processed through the Cenex network and the pinpad was a bit different than Kum N Go typically is (merchant information when I pulled the transaction up on my card's website kicks back to Cenex in some other state).
I went to another IBM/Toshiba store around there, Apple Market in Columbus, KS (actually appears to be owned by G&W Food) and it had the dots on the screen at all times and tap worked fine (did not show any EMV information on the receipt though).
The Cenex with Radiant had its c-store as Kum N Go but the card processed through the Cenex network and the pinpad was a bit different than Kum N Go typically is (merchant information when I pulled the transaction up on my card's website kicks back to Cenex in some other state).
Last edited by scibot; Oct 14, 2018 at 2:55 am
Oct 14, 2018, 12:02 pm
#4835
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HyVee is supposedly going to enable contactless in a few months:
Oct 14, 2018, 12:45 pm
#4836
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Just a quick note that the (apparently autonomous) H Marts in the Pacific Northwest now have actual NFC as well. Had to wait until the order was totaled before the system would accept my tap.
Oct 14, 2018, 2:01 pm
#4837
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,722
HyVee is supposedly going to enable contactless in a few months: https://twitter.com/HyVee/status/105...971661312?s=19
Oct 14, 2018, 2:23 pm
#4838
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Window Seat
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Hey thanks for posting that is huge in my area as now only Kroger will be the last grocery store to not support contactless and I mean not retail+grocery stores such as Wal-Mart or Target.
Is this the H Mart that use this UI: https://imgur.com/ipN66fG ?
Is this the H Mart that use this UI: https://imgur.com/ipN66fG ?
Kroger continues to be a serious payment technology laggard. But it is now very clear that the reason there is no NFC at Kroger is because there is some kind of a vendetta against NFC within the middle management at Kroger that is in charge of making these payment type decisions. It is clear now that other retailers like Costco use that same IBM/Toshiba system with Verifone MX915 pinpads and can do a very fast implementation of NFC under EMV at that. Their former convenience stores which I assume they still support the systems for continue to not support EMV as other convenience stores using that same Radiant system are almost all supporting EMV and most Contactless at this point (Speedway, Kum & Go, Circle K, etc.). Kroger also is behind on having EMV enabled at its gas pumps; Safeway has it enabled, why can't they?
Oct 14, 2018, 6:00 pm
#4839
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Kroger continues to be a serious payment technology laggard. But it is now very clear that the reason there is no NFC at Kroger is because there is some kind of a vendetta against NFC within the middle management at Kroger that is in charge of making these payment type decisions. It is clear now that other retailers like Costco use that same IBM/Toshiba system with Verifone MX915 pinpads and can do a very fast implementation of NFC under EMV at that. Their former convenience stores which I assume they still support the systems for continue to not support EMV as other convenience stores using that same Radiant system are almost all supporting EMV and most Contactless at this point (Speedway, Kum & Go, Circle K, etc.). Kroger also is behind on having EMV enabled at its gas pumps; Safeway has it enabled, why can't they?
The only things that will fix this are either a) significant customer demand to the point where it causes holdout retailers to lose business and/or b) significant interchange reductions for contactless transactions.
(Then again, perhaps (b) will be partially accomplished if debit routing can behave properly on Toshiba for contactless.)
Oct 14, 2018, 6:04 pm
#4840
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,135
Two Mid-Atlantic updates
- Royal Farms has contactless at the pump at its newest stations. I used the card reader to see if EMV was enabled but I also put my phone up to the NFC reader and Apple Pay did activate.
- BJ's has EMV contactless now. Chip card processing was also much faster than before.
- Royal Farms has contactless at the pump at its newest stations. I used the card reader to see if EMV was enabled but I also put my phone up to the NFC reader and Apple Pay did activate.
- BJ's has EMV contactless now. Chip card processing was also much faster than before.
Oct 14, 2018, 6:24 pm
#4841
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Oct 14, 2018, 6:47 pm
#4842
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As I've been mentioning for a while, a significant proportion of major retailers absolutely hates the card networks and will not play ball on contactless due to this. Kroger, for instance, is one of those who opted out of the recent Visa/MC interchange settlement. In fact, Kroger attempted to force all debit card transactions over non-Visa/MC networks when they first enabled EMV (until Visa intervened) and even now is attempting to stop accepting Visa credit cards in at least some of their brands/locations.
The only things that will fix this are either a) significant customer demand to the point where it causes holdout retailers to lose business and/or b) significant interchange reductions for contactless transactions.
(Then again, perhaps (b) will be partially accomplished if debit routing can behave properly on Toshiba for contactless.)
The only things that will fix this are either a) significant customer demand to the point where it causes holdout retailers to lose business and/or b) significant interchange reductions for contactless transactions.
(Then again, perhaps (b) will be partially accomplished if debit routing can behave properly on Toshiba for contactless.)
Well they can stop taking Visa and other credit cards whose networks they object to and see what happens to their business.
Yeah go right back to lines stagnating because people are pulling out checkbooks and the checkers are having to stamp them several times, check photo ID, etc.
Oct 14, 2018, 9:07 pm
#4843
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Well they can stop taking Visa and other credit cards whose networks they object to and see what happens to their business.
Yeah go right back to lines stagnating because people are pulling out checkbooks and the checkers are having to stamp them several times, check photo ID, etc.
Yeah go right back to lines stagnating because people are pulling out checkbooks and the checkers are having to stamp them several times, check photo ID, etc.
Oct 14, 2018, 9:10 pm
#4844
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Some but not all.
credit card issuers are marketing bonus points for cash back for grocery transactions.
presumably they wouldn’t be doing so if customers aren’t responding to it.
does anyone know if there are more debit or credit card transactions at supermarkets?
credit card issuers are marketing bonus points for cash back for grocery transactions.
presumably they wouldn’t be doing so if customers aren’t responding to it.
does anyone know if there are more debit or credit card transactions at supermarkets?
Oct 14, 2018, 9:34 pm
#4845
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