Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
Aug 18, 2018, 10:43 pm
#4531
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Aug 19, 2018, 8:58 am
#4532
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 662
Looks like Samsung pay MST is not working at self check out at Home Depot. No issues at registers with cashiers.
Update went to a different Home Depot self checkout worked. Turned on NFC (should not make a difference) transaction completed. Here's a picture of the credit card machine.
Update went to a different Home Depot self checkout worked. Turned on NFC (should not make a difference) transaction completed. Here's a picture of the credit card machine.
Last edited by briang191; Aug 19, 2018 at 9:22 am
Aug 19, 2018, 4:57 pm
#4533
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Looks like Samsung pay MST is not working at self check out at Home Depot. No issues at registers with cashiers.
Update went to a different Home Depot self checkout worked. Turned on NFC (should not make a difference) transaction completed. Here's a picture of the credit card machine.
Update went to a different Home Depot self checkout worked. Turned on NFC (should not make a difference) transaction completed. Here's a picture of the credit card machine.
Aug 19, 2018, 10:41 pm
#4535
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Window Seat
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Went to a grocery store today with IBM/Toshiba and they were using Index with MX925s.
They had an option for e-mail receipts. I noticed today they had notices posted saying they no longer provide e-mail receipts because their payment processor made the decision to "stop providing payment processing services to the grocery industry" and their new processor does not allow for e-mail receipts at this time.
Upon paying I noticed the pinpads just had the generic Toshiba interface (same as they had pre-Index) with insert or swipe card. No indication that NFC worked. This grocer had been supporting NFC for the past few years pre-chip. I tried NFC and it still worked but I can't tell if it was MSD or EMV.
So this is pretty interesting if Index quit processing for grocery stores...
They had an option for e-mail receipts. I noticed today they had notices posted saying they no longer provide e-mail receipts because their payment processor made the decision to "stop providing payment processing services to the grocery industry" and their new processor does not allow for e-mail receipts at this time.
Upon paying I noticed the pinpads just had the generic Toshiba interface (same as they had pre-Index) with insert or swipe card. No indication that NFC worked. This grocer had been supporting NFC for the past few years pre-chip. I tried NFC and it still worked but I can't tell if it was MSD or EMV.
So this is pretty interesting if Index quit processing for grocery stores...
Aug 19, 2018, 11:19 pm
#4536
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
Went to a grocery store today with IBM/Toshiba and they were using Index with MX925s.
They had an option for e-mail receipts. I noticed today they had notices posted saying they no longer provide e-mail receipts because their payment processor made the decision to "stop providing payment processing services to the grocery industry" and their new processor does not allow for e-mail receipts at this time.
Upon paying I noticed the pinpads just had the generic Toshiba interface (same as they had pre-Index) with insert or swipe card. No indication that NFC worked. This grocer had been supporting NFC for the past few years pre-chip. I tried NFC and it still worked but I can't tell if it was MSD or EMV.
So this is pretty interesting if Index quit processing for grocery stores...
They had an option for e-mail receipts. I noticed today they had notices posted saying they no longer provide e-mail receipts because their payment processor made the decision to "stop providing payment processing services to the grocery industry" and their new processor does not allow for e-mail receipts at this time.
Upon paying I noticed the pinpads just had the generic Toshiba interface (same as they had pre-Index) with insert or swipe card. No indication that NFC worked. This grocer had been supporting NFC for the past few years pre-chip. I tried NFC and it still worked but I can't tell if it was MSD or EMV.
So this is pretty interesting if Index quit processing for grocery stores...
Aug 20, 2018, 2:02 am
#4537
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,722
Went to a grocery store today with IBM/Toshiba and they were using Index with MX925s.
They had an option for e-mail receipts. I noticed today they had notices posted saying they no longer provide e-mail receipts because their payment processor made the decision to "stop providing payment processing services to the grocery industry" and their new processor does not allow for e-mail receipts at this time.
Upon paying I noticed the pinpads just had the generic Toshiba interface (same as they had pre-Index) with insert or swipe card. No indication that NFC worked. This grocer had been supporting NFC for the past few years pre-chip. I tried NFC and it still worked but I can't tell if it was MSD or EMV.
So this is pretty interesting if Index quit processing for grocery stores...
They had an option for e-mail receipts. I noticed today they had notices posted saying they no longer provide e-mail receipts because their payment processor made the decision to "stop providing payment processing services to the grocery industry" and their new processor does not allow for e-mail receipts at this time.
Upon paying I noticed the pinpads just had the generic Toshiba interface (same as they had pre-Index) with insert or swipe card. No indication that NFC worked. This grocer had been supporting NFC for the past few years pre-chip. I tried NFC and it still worked but I can't tell if it was MSD or EMV.
So this is pretty interesting if Index quit processing for grocery stores...
Aug 20, 2018, 9:15 am
#4538
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
Went to a grocery store today with IBM/Toshiba and they were using Index with MX925s.
They had an option for e-mail receipts. I noticed today they had notices posted saying they no longer provide e-mail receipts because their payment processor made the decision to "stop providing payment processing services to the grocery industry" and their new processor does not allow for e-mail receipts at this time.
Upon paying I noticed the pinpads just had the generic Toshiba interface (same as they had pre-Index) with insert or swipe card. No indication that NFC worked. This grocer had been supporting NFC for the past few years pre-chip. I tried NFC and it still worked but I can't tell if it was MSD or EMV.
So this is pretty interesting if Index quit processing for grocery stores...
They had an option for e-mail receipts. I noticed today they had notices posted saying they no longer provide e-mail receipts because their payment processor made the decision to "stop providing payment processing services to the grocery industry" and their new processor does not allow for e-mail receipts at this time.
Upon paying I noticed the pinpads just had the generic Toshiba interface (same as they had pre-Index) with insert or swipe card. No indication that NFC worked. This grocer had been supporting NFC for the past few years pre-chip. I tried NFC and it still worked but I can't tell if it was MSD or EMV.
So this is pretty interesting if Index quit processing for grocery stores...
Aug 20, 2018, 12:13 pm
#4539
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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Location: San Diego, CA
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An implementation of Quick Chip isn't actually worth the cost to some merchants/processors? I'm kinda surprised considering how many complaints there have been about EMV being slow.
Aug 20, 2018, 12:37 pm
#4540
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
QuickChip itself is free (but some processors may charge for its implementation). Index can cost a bunch of money because they do other things such as terminal management etc.
Aug 20, 2018, 1:58 pm
#4541
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,133
According to MacRumors, all Costco stores should now have NFC
https://www.macrumors.com/2018/08/20...pts-apple-pay/
https://www.macrumors.com/2018/08/20...pts-apple-pay/
Aug 20, 2018, 3:02 pm
#4542
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I'm curious--do the merchants with the standalone VIVOpay contactless readers (e.g. Jamba Juice) have any plans to go to something that can do contact EMV? Or are they going to skip that entirely and just enable EMV contactless to satisfy Visa's upcoming requirements? I'm expecting vending machines to not bother in any case, though I don't really have anything concrete to base that on.
Aug 20, 2018, 3:36 pm
#4543
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
I'm curious--do the merchants with the standalone VIVOpay contactless readers (e.g. Jamba Juice) have any plans to go to something that can do contact EMV? Or are they going to skip that entirely and just enable EMV contactless to satisfy Visa's upcoming requirements? I'm expecting vending machines to not bother in any case, though I don't really have anything concrete to base that on.
Same can be said about Wendy’s.
Vending Machines I’m just not sure. They’re a whole different animal and we don’t deal with them
Aug 20, 2018, 4:11 pm
#4544
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I’m sure EMV is coming. There were businesses I never expected to get EMV (Torrid) and I was making fun of them as we were walking in the store, and saw MX915s randomly. I thought they were very late to the game and here they are.
Same can be said about Wendy’s.
Vending Machines I’m just not sure. They’re a whole different animal and we don’t deal with them
Same can be said about Wendy’s.
Vending Machines I’m just not sure. They’re a whole different animal and we don’t deal with them
* "Cash discount", but IMO there's no difference.
Aug 20, 2018, 8:00 pm
#4545
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BTW, I think the MC site updated. I just saw a Torrid on there but I don't recall if it was already there before.