Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
Aug 16, 2018, 7:41 pm
#4501
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,722
Well Nebraska Furniture Mart now supports contactless payments and they still use Elavon for payments: https://imgur.com/yprFFvU really bland UI with no nfc lights just the logo and tap card.
Also my local Trader Joe's reverted to MSD contactless for some odd reason, hmmm.
Also my local Trader Joe's reverted to MSD contactless for some odd reason, hmmm.
Aug 16, 2018, 9:47 pm
#4502
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
Well Nebraska Furniture Mart now supports contactless payments and they still use Elavon for payments: https://imgur.com/yprFFvU really bland UI with no nfc lights just the logo and tap card.
Also my local Trader Joe's reverted to MSD contactless for some odd reason, hmmm.
Also my local Trader Joe's reverted to MSD contactless for some odd reason, hmmm.
Aug 17, 2018, 9:22 am
#4503
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: TYS/BNA/ATL
Programs: UR, TYP, MR, C1, AA, UA, WN, BA, AS, AV, AC, Choice, Hyatt, IHG, Hilton, Wyndham, Marriott
Posts: 1,973
Those are the new Buzztime tablets, nice and yes iPP350's for the cashier stations but they also use iSC250's up front and everything is enabled on everything. You can have them use your cards at the iPP350's or walk up front to pay on the iSC250's. Here is a video of 7-Eleven ctls: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHCtObzJg6o and yeah I see the Apple Pay logo in the left bottom corner so the location I went did not have it yet it seems.
Aug 17, 2018, 11:49 am
#4505
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
When your solution is basically a clever hack to support outdated terminals, stuff like this is bound to happen.
On that note, my cards haven't been wiped from my S3 since last week. However, it's too early to tell if that means that the latest software update fixed the issue or if I finally found a workaround (power cycling both the phone and watch once a week).
Last edited by tmiw; Aug 17, 2018 at 11:57 am
Aug 17, 2018, 11:53 am
#4506
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: TYS/BNA/ATL
Programs: UR, TYP, MR, C1, AA, UA, WN, BA, AS, AV, AC, Choice, Hyatt, IHG, Hilton, Wyndham, Marriott
Posts: 1,973
Aug 17, 2018, 11:57 am
#4507
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: TYS/BNA/ATL
Programs: UR, TYP, MR, C1, AA, UA, WN, BA, AS, AV, AC, Choice, Hyatt, IHG, Hilton, Wyndham, Marriott
Posts: 1,973
Google Pay definitely works at 7-Eleven in my experience. I'm not sure why only MST works there with Samsung Pay though, but the clerk this morning apparently knew enough to suggest that I tapped the side of the terminal.
When your solution is basically a clever hack to support outdated terminals, stuff like this is bound to happen.
On that note, my cards haven't been wiped from my S3 since last week. However, it's too early to tell if that means that the latest software update fixed the issue or if I finally found a workaround (power cycling both the phone and watch once a week).
When your solution is basically a clever hack to support outdated terminals, stuff like this is bound to happen.
On that note, my cards haven't been wiped from my S3 since last week. However, it's too early to tell if that means that the latest software update fixed the issue or if I finally found a workaround (power cycling both the phone and watch once a week).
Aug 17, 2018, 12:11 pm
#4508
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Canada
Programs: BA Gold (OWE), Star Alliance Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,194
Aug 17, 2018, 12:16 pm
#4509
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
Mine were wiped out on 11th, but I updated both Gear App (now called Wear), and the OS on the watch to the latest. The watch also started to overheat when charging, and was not fully charging. This update fixed it. Regarding cards wipe-out, it happened to me 7 times since June. It happens every 10-12 days. So I will need to wait at least till 21st for the next wipe-out.
Aug 17, 2018, 12:41 pm
#4510
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: TYS/BNA/ATL
Programs: UR, TYP, MR, C1, AA, UA, WN, BA, AS, AV, AC, Choice, Hyatt, IHG, Hilton, Wyndham, Marriott
Posts: 1,973
NFC on the watch works for me most of the time. Just returned from a trip to Europe, where I used it a lot (mostly with USB Altitude Reserve card), and it worked in most places. In many places they didn't even have a magnetic stripe reader, but NFC was available everywhere, where CCs were accepted.
Aug 17, 2018, 1:02 pm
#4511
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Canada
Programs: BA Gold (OWE), Star Alliance Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,194
NFC on the watch works for me most of the time. Just returned from a trip to Europe, where I used it a lot (mostly with USB Altitude Reserve card), and it worked in most places. In many places they didn't even have a magnetic stripe reader, but NFC was available everywhere, where CCs were accepted.
Aug 17, 2018, 2:59 pm
#4512
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
There's some irony in there being a cash tip jar at a place that doesn't accept cash for payment (Tender Greens).
Anyway, Samsung Pay worked there but I didn't get any notification from the app until something like 15-20 seconds after opening it. Another indication that my cards will be wiped soon?
Anyway, Samsung Pay worked there but I didn't get any notification from the app until something like 15-20 seconds after opening it. Another indication that my cards will be wiped soon?
Aug 17, 2018, 3:54 pm
#4513
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
Google Pay definitely works at 7-Eleven in my experience. I'm not sure why only MST works there with Samsung Pay though, but the clerk this morning apparently knew enough to suggest that I tap the side of the terminal.
When your solution is basically a clever hack to support outdated terminals, stuff like this is bound to happen.
On that note, my cards haven't been wiped from my S3 since last week. However, it's too early to tell if that means that the latest software update fixed the issue or if I finally found a workaround (power cycling both the phone and watch once a week).
When your solution is basically a clever hack to support outdated terminals, stuff like this is bound to happen.
On that note, my cards haven't been wiped from my S3 since last week. However, it's too early to tell if that means that the latest software update fixed the issue or if I finally found a workaround (power cycling both the phone and watch once a week).
Aug 17, 2018, 8:51 pm
#4514
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: TYS/BNA/ATL
Programs: UR, TYP, MR, C1, AA, UA, WN, BA, AS, AV, AC, Choice, Hyatt, IHG, Hilton, Wyndham, Marriott
Posts: 1,973
Today i tried Google pay at 7-11, and it didn't work as well, said phone moved too quickly. Tried few times, then switched to Samsung pay, which worked right away.
Aug 17, 2018, 9:14 pm
#4515
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
Phone moved too quickly is the terminology we’re going with? Great. Gah supposed to be “Card” removed too quickly!! Beggars can’t be choosers at least they have Contactless lol!