Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
May 11, 2018, 10:48 pm
#3991
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,722
So this place uses L5300's with Toshiba hardware with EMV and contactless: https://imgur.com/YCWoj01 does anyone know what grocery pos system this is? Before EMV was enabled the nfc did not work just declined but it works now. Here is an odd gas station pos I think it uses Wincor Nixdorf software: https://imgur.com/kJBSKd4 Can anyone confirm that is the pos' name as well? It said chip was coming soon but they only have one MX915 where nfc does work MX860 for the other two registers.
Here is VP Express Commander with EMV and NFC: https://imgur.com/yV8tB8d notice the dots this is what BP with EMV looks like now. Super C retro fitted an old Gilbarco pump with Flex Pay IV: https://imgur.com/EmKMd3B but the software is still not available for the pump for the last year and a half and EMV and nfc is disabled inside too. The Commander Super C's do support both EMV and nfc though. I then found a Gulf Oil station with Flex Pay IV with the contactless readers but nfc is not enabled as you can see here: https://imgur.com/I9dEutb
Here is VP Express Commander with EMV and NFC: https://imgur.com/yV8tB8d notice the dots this is what BP with EMV looks like now. Super C retro fitted an old Gilbarco pump with Flex Pay IV: https://imgur.com/EmKMd3B but the software is still not available for the pump for the last year and a half and EMV and nfc is disabled inside too. The Commander Super C's do support both EMV and nfc though. I then found a Gulf Oil station with Flex Pay IV with the contactless readers but nfc is not enabled as you can see here: https://imgur.com/I9dEutb
May 12, 2018, 12:13 am
#3992
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
So this place uses L5300's with Toshiba hardware with EMV and contactless: https://imgur.com/YCWoj01 does anyone know what grocery pos system this is? Before EMV was enabled the nfc did not work just declined but it works now. Here is an odd gas station pos I think it uses Wincor Nixdorf software: https://imgur.com/kJBSKd4 Can anyone confirm that is the pos' name as well? It said chip was coming soon but they only have one MX915 where nfc does work MX860 for the other two registers.
Here is VP Express Commander with EMV and NFC: https://imgur.com/yV8tB8d notice the dots this is what BP with EMV looks like now. Super C retro fitted an old Gilbarco pump with Flex Pay IV: https://imgur.com/EmKMd3B but the software is still not available for the pump for the last year and a half and EMV and nfc is disabled inside too. The Commander Super C's do support both EMV and nfc though. I then found a Gulf Oil station with Flex Pay IV with the contactless readers but nfc is not enabled as you can see here: https://imgur.com/I9dEutb
Here is VP Express Commander with EMV and NFC: https://imgur.com/yV8tB8d notice the dots this is what BP with EMV looks like now. Super C retro fitted an old Gilbarco pump with Flex Pay IV: https://imgur.com/EmKMd3B but the software is still not available for the pump for the last year and a half and EMV and nfc is disabled inside too. The Commander Super C's do support both EMV and nfc though. I then found a Gulf Oil station with Flex Pay IV with the contactless readers but nfc is not enabled as you can see here: https://imgur.com/I9dEutb
May 12, 2018, 12:25 am
#3993
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,722
Yeah 2 or 3 Super C's just straight upgraded to the newest pumps but that one retrofitted them for some reason. None have the darn software so contactless just says 'Please see Cashier' but a Sinclair with Passport now has working contactless at the pump as it failed to work previously. Oh and I was able to use Google Pay Visa(I'm sure Apple Pay Visa would fail) on the old Hypercom L4250's it works just fine and it says Retalix on the screen but no EMV obviously. That Hypercom is fairly rare now as most people upgraded to MX915's by now.
May 12, 2018, 1:32 am
#3994
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Window Seat
Programs: National Executive, HHonors Gold, IHG Platinum, Hyatt Visitor
Posts: 2,495
So this place uses L5300's with Toshiba hardware with EMV and contactless: https://imgur.com/YCWoj01 does anyone know what grocery pos system this is? Before EMV was enabled the nfc did not work just declined but it works now. Here is an odd gas station pos I think it uses Wincor Nixdorf software: https://imgur.com/kJBSKd4 Can anyone confirm that is the pos' name as well? It said chip was coming soon but they only have one MX915 where nfc does work MX860 for the other two registers.
Here is VP Express Commander with EMV and NFC: https://imgur.com/yV8tB8d notice the dots this is what BP with EMV looks like now. Super C retro fitted an old Gilbarco pump with Flex Pay IV: https://imgur.com/EmKMd3B but the software is still not available for the pump for the last year and a half and EMV and nfc is disabled inside too. The Commander Super C's do support both EMV and nfc though. I then found a Gulf Oil station with Flex Pay IV with the contactless readers but nfc is not enabled as you can see here: https://imgur.com/I9dEutb
Here is VP Express Commander with EMV and NFC: https://imgur.com/yV8tB8d notice the dots this is what BP with EMV looks like now. Super C retro fitted an old Gilbarco pump with Flex Pay IV: https://imgur.com/EmKMd3B but the software is still not available for the pump for the last year and a half and EMV and nfc is disabled inside too. The Commander Super C's do support both EMV and nfc though. I then found a Gulf Oil station with Flex Pay IV with the contactless readers but nfc is not enabled as you can see here: https://imgur.com/I9dEutb
In Kanab, UT I came across an unbranded station a year or so ago that had just gotten new pumps and still had that old Nucleus (the in-store receipt was identical to your EZ Go receipt; no chip, but had Contactless). The new pumps had working Contactless as well and worked on every card I tried and also on Android Pay. It was a really good system.
There is a 76 near me that still has a working IBM Nucleus system. It just got MX915s and now has Contactless enabled. No Chip.
May 12, 2018, 1:57 am
#3995
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,722
That EZ GO Receipt is the IBM Nucleus system - unbranded. Chevrons use it with a Wayne/Fujistu POS but everywhere else I ever saw it used it with IBM POS (or Toshiba for the few newer deployments of it). Most have gone off that system because a couple years ago they had no EMV solution and as a result Gilbarco was able to convert many of the chains that used to use it and get them to install Passport. Some very large operators in the west previously used Nucleus including corporate owned Chevrons, Pacific Convenience and Fuels (76 primarily), Terrible Herbst (Chevrons and unbrandeds), Holiday Oil-clown logo in Utah (Chevrons and Sinclairs), but they have all switched to the Gilbarco Passport. Passport is a clunky little system to say the least (love how many still have to ask "debit or credit" as if it is 1995, takes forever to look up items on the item menu, and the stupid noises it makes when they scan items are just odd) and I expect some of these big chains will go back to Nucleus eventually. One big issue is Shell does not support Nucleus...
In Kanab, UT I came across an unbranded station a year or so ago that had just gotten new pumps and still had that old Nucleus (the in-store receipt was identical to your EZ Go receipt; no chip, but had Contactless). The new pumps had working Contactless as well and worked on every card I tried and also on Android Pay. It was a really good system.
There is a 76 near me that still has a working IBM Nucleus system. It just got MX915s and now has Contactless enabled. No Chip.
In Kanab, UT I came across an unbranded station a year or so ago that had just gotten new pumps and still had that old Nucleus (the in-store receipt was identical to your EZ Go receipt; no chip, but had Contactless). The new pumps had working Contactless as well and worked on every card I tried and also on Android Pay. It was a really good system.
There is a 76 near me that still has a working IBM Nucleus system. It just got MX915s and now has Contactless enabled. No Chip.
May 12, 2018, 8:39 am
#3996
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
May 12, 2018, 10:59 am
#3997
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: RSW
Programs: Delta - Silver; UA - Silver; HHonors - Diamond; IHG - Spire Ambassador; Marriott Bonvoy - Titanium
Posts: 14,185
The few places in London that didn't take contactless were actually rather snippy about it: "You can't use that here!" (when brandishing my phone). A waiter and a cab driver were rather aggressive about contactless tipping (more or less: "Don't skip the tip!") Sometimes there were tip screens, sometimes not. No DCC the couple of times I inserted.
I did witness someone's phone failure at the Tube gates once; I used my Amex card itself as Oyster.
I did witness someone's phone failure at the Tube gates once; I used my Amex card itself as Oyster.
May 12, 2018, 11:05 am
#3998
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Bay Area
Programs: DL SM, UA MP.
Posts: 12,729
The few places in London that didn't take contactless were actually rather snippy about it: "You can't use that here!" (when brandishing my phone). A waiter and a cab driver were rather aggressive about contactless tipping (more or less: "Don't skip the tip!") Sometimes there were tip screens, sometimes not. No DCC the couple of times I inserted.
I did witness someone's phone failure at the Tube gates once; I used my Amex card itself as Oyster.
I did witness someone's phone failure at the Tube gates once; I used my Amex card itself as Oyster.
May 12, 2018, 11:36 am
#3999
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: RSW
Programs: Delta - Silver; UA - Silver; HHonors - Diamond; IHG - Spire Ambassador; Marriott Bonvoy - Titanium
Posts: 14,185
I didn't find the service charge that common, though when they had it, fairly obvious on the bill/menu; when not sure, I asked.
At a bookstore, I notice Verified by Device on their store copy of the receipt, which wasn't on mine.
At a bookstore, I notice Verified by Device on their store copy of the receipt, which wasn't on mine.
May 12, 2018, 12:09 pm
#4000
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,060
"
May 12, 2018, 3:18 pm
#4001
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,722
Well yes I thought there is something different about Visa on Android/Google Pay vs Visa in Apple Pay that allows it to work on those old terminals, but MC Apple Pay will still work. I remember trying Visa previously at a different location with L4250's and it failed to work so maybe they updated the software to allow it to work. The receipt looks pretty close to other older NCR places RXXX and it has two pieces paper for the receipt.
May 12, 2018, 5:08 pm
#4002
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
Well yes I thought there is something different about Visa on Android/Google Pay vs Visa in Apple Pay that allows it to work on those old terminals, but MC Apple Pay will still work. I remember trying Visa previously at a different location with L4250's and it failed to work so maybe they updated the software to allow it to work. The receipt looks pretty close to other older NCR places RXXX and it has two pieces paper for the receipt.
BTW, Circle K in Mexico uses VX820s. I used cash so I'm not sure how well contactless works but the one location I went to was at least customer-facing.
May 13, 2018, 2:35 pm
#4003
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,592
At Staples, using Apple Pay:
* Capital One 360 Debit Mastercard - Common AID selected, PIN required with no bypass allowed
* Apple Pay Cash (Discover Debit) - Discover Global AID selected, No CVM for $2-ish, partial auth not supported
In both cases, it took a very long time for the transaction to approve, about 12 seconds. I don’t think it was the store’s connection, as this happened at two different stores.
* Capital One 360 Debit Mastercard - Common AID selected, PIN required with no bypass allowed
* Apple Pay Cash (Discover Debit) - Discover Global AID selected, No CVM for $2-ish, partial auth not supported
In both cases, it took a very long time for the transaction to approve, about 12 seconds. I don’t think it was the store’s connection, as this happened at two different stores.
May 13, 2018, 5:49 pm
#4004
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,722
At Staples, using Apple Pay:
* Capital One 360 Debit Mastercard - Common AID selected, PIN required with no bypass allowed
* Apple Pay Cash (Discover Debit) - Discover Global AID selected, No CVM for $2-ish, partial auth not supported
In both cases, it took a very long time for the transaction to approve, about 12 seconds. I don’t think it was the store’s connection, as this happened at two different stores.
* Capital One 360 Debit Mastercard - Common AID selected, PIN required with no bypass allowed
* Apple Pay Cash (Discover Debit) - Discover Global AID selected, No CVM for $2-ish, partial auth not supported
In both cases, it took a very long time for the transaction to approve, about 12 seconds. I don’t think it was the store’s connection, as this happened at two different stores.
May 13, 2018, 5:49 pm
#4005
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
When I tried Google Pay Visa Debit at Staples it said another form of payment was required but Google Pay MC worked in full mode EMV contactless but yes it was also very slow and said "Please Keep Card Inserted" on the screen. IIRC I saw something similar flash at Noodles & Company after using Google Pay so they might also be EMV contactless.