Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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FAQ- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
#3513
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I had thought that the cash only was about fees, but having to keep track of tips makes sense. The fellow I prefer at Great Clips mentioned they are switching from theur non-EMV register to something vague about "tablets" soon. I find $20 for a two-minute buzz cut extortionate, so use them for $6 beard trim only; cash only place in another neighborhood for $12 buzz cuts when needed.
If Visa, Amex and MC go anywhere near universally No CVM as implied, I don't see contactless being much of a demand at all.
If Visa, Amex and MC go anywhere near universally No CVM as implied, I don't see contactless being much of a demand at all.
#3514
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It can come down to complexity of paying independent hairdressers (doesn't apply to a chain, obviously). My hairdresser takes cards but their website says cash-only. They have an iZettle reader and will happily take cards, and have for me a couple times, but they prefer not to. Why? The pain of sorting out who the money belongs to and taxes if card volume got high. For their tiny volume, it's manageable. If they started advertising they took cards, it'd be a mess.
I've been talking to them about a solution, and we may have found one... using Square and separate accounts for each hairdresser.
I've been talking to them about a solution, and we may have found one... using Square and separate accounts for each hairdresser.
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I had thought that the cash only was about fees, but having to keep track of tips makes sense. The fellow I prefer at Great Clips mentioned they are switching from theur non-EMV register to something vague about "tablets" soon. I find $20 for a two-minute buzz cut extortionate, so use them for $6 beard trim only; cash only place in another neighborhood for $12 buzz cuts when needed.
If Visa, Amex and MC go anywhere near universally No CVM as implied, I don't see contactless being much of a demand at all.
If Visa, Amex and MC go anywhere near universally No CVM as implied, I don't see contactless being much of a demand at all.
As for Americans not using contactless, they might not on their own, but may with the right encouragement. It's why rewards have been a huge thing with US issued credit cards for quite a while (otherwise I'm pretty sure the US would still be a mostly cash based country even in 2018).
#3516
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Meanwhile, contactless fraud has overtaken check fraud in the UK, though I'm not sure that really means much considering there aren't too many Western countries that still commonly use the latter.
#3517
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As for Americans not using contactless, they might not on their own, but may with the right encouragement. It's why rewards have been a huge thing with US issued credit cards for quite a while (otherwise I'm pretty sure the US would still be a mostly cash based country even in 2018).
Americans like to do things with the least amount of effort possible, so if online bill pay allows me to send a bill without writing a check, buying stamps, and buying/putting it in an envelope, I will keep my money in the bank. If my employer is able to direct deposit money into my bank, then I don't have to drive to the bank and cash the check. The same idea applies to mobile check deposits... If I don't have to drive to the bank by using mobile check deposit, I will keep my money liquidated because there's no way to receive cash from that transaction and it's pointless to drive there afterwards just to get cash out when I can use my card instead.
Technology like P2P payments has also lessened the need for cash... Do I need to pay someone? I'll just use Apple Pay or another P2P service like ACH or Pop Money.
Why would I want to carry $200 in cash around? So I can be robbed when my wallet is misplaced or stolen? A debit/credit card takes care of that problem.
Card usage has very little to do with rewards. If people used cards mostly because of the rewards, nobody would use a debit card anymore, and last I've checked, it's a payment method that's more popular than cash and checks combined.
Do I agree with actual credit card usage being popular because of rewards? I guess, but I would still use a credit card online, at restaurants, and at gas pumps for fraud prevention measures. The average consumer doesn't collect points, cash, or miles.
Last edited by mikesyr18; Feb 24, 2018 at 9:50 pm
#3518
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Staples now has EMV Contactless.
AID printed on receipt and App Label of Visa Credit.
No signature for $43 transaction. I think before it would have prompted over $25. Could be they went to a $50 signature window.
AID printed on receipt and App Label of Visa Credit.
No signature for $43 transaction. I think before it would have prompted over $25. Could be they went to a $50 signature window.
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Anyway, the point is that getting cash wasn't really a huge headache for most people, so it was no big deal to use it for smaller purchases since that was what was on hand (I doubt many people carried $200+ in cash all the time). The rewards encouraged people to try using cards more often for purchases instead, which eventually caused the new habit to "stick" and demand to increase. I know at least a couple of businesses around here that were cash-only all the way until they couldn't be anymore precisely due to that demand.
The same sort of parallel is there for contactless. Using a physical card isn't really a huge deal for most people (even if places like reddit seem to make it appear otherwise), so there's not much of a point in using something else. With rewards, there will be. In fact, people using mobile payments 3x as often with the Altitude Reserve compared to other US Bank cards seems to bear that out.
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Can't conclude that unless we see what happens when a card's inserted. It's very possible they're just supporting CDCVM (and also possible they've gotten rid of the signature prompt entirely a few months early).
#3521
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Anyway, it's funny seeing shops about to go out of business do stuff like this... Though it makes sense. The IT team keeps working until they're laid off.
Hopefully Staples manages to hang on somehow in the US, it can be handy. Here in the UK they got bought and the company that's bought lots of other failing businesses (Hilco) has rebranded them as Office Outlet. That said, I doubt those will last long either. They're in the business of taking what's profitable and shutting down the rest (though they have kept some HMVs open).
In the US, I know Staples is rapidly downsizing to avoid this fate. Missoula, MT went from two large Staples to one mini Staples. But is that enough to save a concept that's outdated?
#3522
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Hearsay doesn't do much when you're trying to make a point.
The same sort of parallel is there for contactless... With rewards, there will be. In fact, people using mobile payments 3x as often with the Altitude Reserve compared to other US Bank cards seems to bear that out.
#3523
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I tend to assume that a mobile wallet is used if a US card is used with contactless simply because the feature is still relatively uncommon.
I think Staples mostly hangs on due to purchase agreements with various companies. I know we were required to buy certain things from there for a while, for example.
From here:
Of course, that in itself doesn't say why credit's become the most popular but the study also says that the credit number's the "highest seen since 2007".
It could easily be something as simple as "use a mobile wallet X number of times and get your checking account fees waived". The rewards don't have to be cash back per se, though it works out to an extra $y per month for the person who doesn't have much in their account.
Hopefully Staples manages to hang on somehow in the US, it can be handy. Here in the UK they got bought and the company that's bought lots of other failing businesses (Hilco) has rebranded them as Office Outlet. That said, I doubt those will last long either. They're in the business of taking what's profitable and shutting down the rest (though they have kept some HMVs open).
In the US, I know Staples is rapidly downsizing to avoid this fate. Missoula, MT went from two large Staples to one mini Staples. But is that enough to save a concept that's outdated?
In the US, I know Staples is rapidly downsizing to avoid this fate. Missoula, MT went from two large Staples to one mini Staples. But is that enough to save a concept that's outdated?
I doubt it, especially with the younger generations. Yes, debit cards used to have rewards (a few still do such as Paypal, Discover, and USAA) but if people were really using them for the rewards, they would have stopped using them shorty after Durbin and Dodd-Frank went into law.
When presented with the question: “When given a choice, what payment form do you prefer?”, 40 percent selected credit, while 35 percent selected debit and 11 percent selected cash.
As long as interchange fees on debit cards remain too low to realistically support rewards for the larger financial institutions and credit unions, I don't see that type of incentive to push contactless use in the U.S. It works with credit cards because the interchange fees are higher so they can support giving a bonus for contactless use.
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I received a message from Chase saying that they're moving away from access codes for card free ATM access. Instead, one will use the mobile payments app with NFC to enable card free ATM access. Do you think Chase might start issuing physical cards with contactless due to this change?
#3525
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1) Direct deposits totaling $500 or more - ensures it's more difficult to move your money away from Chase, for example, without incurring fees or the stress of dealing with your employer to change the direct deposit over, bill pay, ach transactions, checks, etc. Otherwise, it's $12 because they can't invest your deposits.
2) $1,500 minimum balance - is so Chase can make money from your checking account, and they assume $1,500 will let them make up for the amount of money it costs to keep your account open.
Waiving that $12 fee by using "x" amount of mobile wallet purchases doesn't help their profit numbers, but may cause the profits to drop; thus, the stock prices go down.
I received a message from Chase saying that they're moving away from access codes for card free ATM access. Instead, one will use the mobile payments app with NFC to enable card free ATM access. Do you think Chase might start issuing physical cards with contactless due to this change?