Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
Feb 22, 2018, 8:32 am
#3496
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Yeah, I'm not sure what the point of the three digit code thing is if you already can't go through the payment process without the GPS showing you're at a supported station.
Feb 22, 2018, 10:54 am
#3497
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
I think they’re doing that to mitigate the age old fraud tactic of “switching the nozzles” or accidentally activating the wrong pump.
Feb 22, 2018, 7:53 pm
#3498
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
I just used Chase Pay at a local merchant, and it worked pretty seamlessly! I went to Fired Pie, and saw the scanner was labeled levelUp, but Chase Pay still worked, as it stated in the app. Processed instantly, and very fast. Receipt just said "Mobile Payment"
Fired Pie uses Revel POS, and only offers this as mobile payment, but they tie some decent rewards with it. They still swipe cards otherwise, and they don't offer contactless. Ideally contactless would be nice, but this was OK, if you have chase.
Fired Pie uses Revel POS, and only offers this as mobile payment, but they tie some decent rewards with it. They still swipe cards otherwise, and they don't offer contactless. Ideally contactless would be nice, but this was OK, if you have chase.
Feb 22, 2018, 9:25 pm
#3499
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,592
I just used Chase Pay at a local merchant, and it worked pretty seamlessly! I went to Fired Pie, and saw the scanner was labeled levelUp, but Chase Pay still worked, as it stated in the app. Processed instantly, and very fast. Receipt just said "Mobile Payment"
Fired Pie uses Revel POS, and only offers this as mobile payment, but they tie some decent rewards with it. They still swipe cards otherwise, and they don't offer contactless. Ideally contactless would be nice, but this was OK, if you have chase.
Fired Pie uses Revel POS, and only offers this as mobile payment, but they tie some decent rewards with it. They still swipe cards otherwise, and they don't offer contactless. Ideally contactless would be nice, but this was OK, if you have chase.
LevelUp payment has always been fast in my experience. I wonder where Starbucks went wrong with their Chase Pay implementation, as it takes forever to process.
Contactless with Revel is a rarity around here.
Feb 22, 2018, 10:03 pm
#3500
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On that note, does anyone know how to clear the notification bubble for the Chase Pay app? I don't see any obvious way of doing so.
Feb 23, 2018, 1:03 am
#3501
Join Date: Mar 2017
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Posts: 2,035
In response to Redlight's post:
Swiping cards is getting a little ridiculous. I could understand during the time when there was an extreme backlog for certifications (end of 2015 through early 2017), that places were still using swipe only readers, but we are well past that point now. Really there's just no excuse for swiping credit cards at this point unless you're a stubborn, lazy merchant. We need to have a uniform payment system in this country instead of a fragmented one. Two and a half years is plenty of time to purchase readers and get the software certified. If the problem is with their processor, why don't merchants roast their vendors a bit more?
The liability shift has obviously not been enough of a push to get merchants to change, so the card networks should start taking more drastic measures, such as heavy fines and cardholder favoritism during charge backs. What's the merchant going to do about it? Stop taking cards? Good luck keeping half your business at that point.
Additionally, we should be seeing the card networks and banks balking at the way merchants want to forgo contactless acceptance in order to collect information on the cardholder's buying habits. It should never be acceptable to accept any security standard other than the highest possible. Perhaps some people in the two threads (EMV/contactless) are right... We may have been better off going directly to contactless and taken steps to phase out magnetic stripe.
Swiping cards is getting a little ridiculous. I could understand during the time when there was an extreme backlog for certifications (end of 2015 through early 2017), that places were still using swipe only readers, but we are well past that point now. Really there's just no excuse for swiping credit cards at this point unless you're a stubborn, lazy merchant. We need to have a uniform payment system in this country instead of a fragmented one. Two and a half years is plenty of time to purchase readers and get the software certified. If the problem is with their processor, why don't merchants roast their vendors a bit more?
The liability shift has obviously not been enough of a push to get merchants to change, so the card networks should start taking more drastic measures, such as heavy fines and cardholder favoritism during charge backs. What's the merchant going to do about it? Stop taking cards? Good luck keeping half your business at that point.
Additionally, we should be seeing the card networks and banks balking at the way merchants want to forgo contactless acceptance in order to collect information on the cardholder's buying habits. It should never be acceptable to accept any security standard other than the highest possible. Perhaps some people in the two threads (EMV/contactless) are right... We may have been better off going directly to contactless and taken steps to phase out magnetic stripe.
Last edited by mikesyr18; Feb 23, 2018 at 1:12 am
Feb 23, 2018, 1:11 pm
#3502
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Also, the liability shift is effectively suspended for small purchases until a few months from now. There really wasn't any reason for at least some to upgrade (or at least upgrade immediately). I'm actually surprised that there is as much adoption as there is, honestly.
Feb 23, 2018, 7:30 pm
#3503
Join Date: Mar 2017
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Feb 23, 2018, 8:56 pm
#3505
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It could be some of the places I frequent. For example, my local hair cutting place (that's a small business) still swipes cards, but Supercuts takes the chip; however, I prefer doing business with locals instead. Why pay $14 + tip for a hair cut when I can pay $7 + tip?
Feb 23, 2018, 9:10 pm
#3506
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My barbershop stopped cards altogether years ago.
Most significant hold out I run across would be a local Walgreen-ish chain that has had NFC for years, but still swipes.
Most significant hold out I run across would be a local Walgreen-ish chain that has had NFC for years, but still swipes.
Feb 23, 2018, 10:30 pm
#3507
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Feb 23, 2018, 10:34 pm
#3508
Join Date: Mar 2017
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I'm not sure why barbershops make a big deal about cards. Neither my locally owned barbershop or SuperCuts takes AMEX. My locally owned one takes Discover but doesn't advertise it (used to but doesn't anymore).
Surely a $14+ profit from each haircut should be enough to justify the minuscule extra fees AMEX charges, particularly at places like SuperCuts rather than a small business who may not have the volume to negotiate lower fees.
Surely a $14+ profit from each haircut should be enough to justify the minuscule extra fees AMEX charges, particularly at places like SuperCuts rather than a small business who may not have the volume to negotiate lower fees.
Feb 24, 2018, 2:44 am
#3509
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,537
I'm not sure why barbershops make a big deal about cards. Neither my locally owned barbershop or SuperCuts takes AMEX. My locally owned one takes Discover but doesn't advertise it (used to but doesn't anymore).
Surely a $14+ profit from each haircut should be enough to justify the minuscule extra fees AMEX charges, particularly at places like SuperCuts rather than a small business who may not have the volume to negotiate lower fees.
Surely a $14+ profit from each haircut should be enough to justify the minuscule extra fees AMEX charges, particularly at places like SuperCuts rather than a small business who may not have the volume to negotiate lower fees.
I've been talking to them about a solution, and we may have found one... using Square and separate accounts for each hairdresser.
Feb 24, 2018, 3:03 am
#3510
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It can come down to complexity of paying independent hairdressers (doesn't apply to a chain, obviously). My hairdresser takes cards but their website says cash-only. They have an iZettle reader and will happily take cards, and have for me a couple times, but they prefer not to. Why? The pain of sorting out who the money belongs to and taxes if card volume got high. For their tiny volume, it's manageable. If they started advertising they took cards, it'd be a mess.
I've been talking to them about a solution, and we may have found one... using Square and separate accounts for each hairdresser.
I've been talking to them about a solution, and we may have found one... using Square and separate accounts for each hairdresser.