Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
Feb 3, 2018, 9:36 am
#3406
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
There was a delay of of 2-4 months when contactless did not work at many McD's after chip was enabled. It was being tested at some locations though as I had used it a a certain far away location. Remember it would say "Insert Card" when you tapped. Five Below had a similar wait with EMV being enabled then a few months later Visa EMV contactless worked and it took over a year to get MC EMV contactless working there. Certification seems to take so long especially with EMV mode contactless.
As for certification, there are something like 6 or 7 different kernels that you have to support (assuming acceptance of all major card brands). It's no surprise EMV contactless certification takes a lot longer.
Feb 3, 2018, 9:53 am
#3407
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,592
Exactly what I was thinking. Isn't Clover Mini supposed to be stationary? A bulky device like that shouldn't be moved around carelessly.
At Five Below, Discover is still MSD. I'll have to try Amex, but that's a long delay if I've ever seen one.
There was a delay of of 2-4 months when contactless did not work at many McD's after chip was enabled. It was being tested at some locations though as I had used it a a certain far away location. Remember it would say "Insert Card" when you tapped. Five Below had a similar wait with EMV being enabled then a few months later Visa EMV contactless worked and it took over a year to get MC EMV contactless working there. Certification seems to take so long especially with EMV mode contactless.
Feb 3, 2018, 11:13 am
#3408
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: RSW
Programs: Delta - Silver; UA - Silver; HHonors - Diamond; IHG - Spire Ambassador; Marriott Bonvoy - Titanium
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A local Indian joint carries Clover Mini to the table, which doesn't seem at all bulky. The last time, the waiter was familiar with Apple Pay, but blown away by my "wifi card" (as he called it). I explained Amex cards were being issued with tap feature now.
Feb 3, 2018, 11:53 am
#3409
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
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The problem isn't so much the size of the Clover devices so much as the fact that the one that's actually intended to be brought to the table (Clover Mobile) also seems to be intended for the cashier/employee to hold for the customer. That can be awkward in situations that require tipping.
Feb 3, 2018, 11:53 am
#3410
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,592
Feb 3, 2018, 12:09 pm
#3411
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: RSW
Programs: Delta - Silver; UA - Silver; HHonors - Diamond; IHG - Spire Ambassador; Marriott Bonvoy - Titanium
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Probably was a clover mobile. The tipping issue wasn't all that awkward while he waited, as there are radio buttons for common options, and leaving an odd amount to round the bill to an even dollar amount wasn't at all awkward. The previous visit, server entered base amount, leaving me to tip "in private" instead. The tipping thing is over-rated unless one is either very easily flustered, or hell-bent on under-tipping. My mom would love this over struggling with doing the math herself on a slip!
This time the party of six next over had separate checks with the Clover Mobile. As it was a buffet charge each to enter, and the kids seemed savvy, not at all time consuming
This time the party of six next over had separate checks with the Clover Mobile. As it was a buffet charge each to enter, and the kids seemed savvy, not at all time consuming
Feb 3, 2018, 9:07 pm
#3412
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
Safeway's contactless is so flaky. 
It worked today at another Vons but didn't during a visit to one in Portland last weekend nor does it work more than 50% of the time at the Vons closest to me.
Anyway, a few things I discovered today:
It worked today at another Vons but didn't during a visit to one in Portland last weekend nor does it work more than 50% of the time at the Vons closest to me.Anyway, a few things I discovered today:
- Napa Auto Parts' official system appears to consist of MX915s with similar UI to what I've seen at Noodles & Company among other places. The Wallet app decided to claim that Apple Pay was "updating"
, so I had to insert my physical card. No EMV info on the receipt. - A Wienerschnitzel location I went to uses Oracle/Micros registers with S300s. Everything worked, but also no EMV info on the receipt I got. (It's possible that another receipt printed out with that info but I never received it.) No idea if this is the official setup or if it's something that depends on the franchisee.
Feb 3, 2018, 11:44 pm
#3413
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Window Seat
Programs: National Executive, HHonors Gold, IHG Platinum, Hyatt Visitor
Posts: 2,495
Safeway's contactless is so flaky. It worked today at another Vons but didn't during a visit to one in Portland last weekend nor does it work more than 50% of the time at the Vons closest to me.
Anyway, a few things I discovered today:
It worked today at another Vons but didn't during a visit to one in Portland last weekend nor does it work more than 50% of the time at the Vons closest to me.Anyway, a few things I discovered today:
- Napa Auto Parts' official system appears to consist of MX915s with similar UI to what I've seen at Noodles & Company among other places. The Wallet app decided to claim that Apple Pay was "updating" , so I had to insert my physical card. No EMV info on the receipt.
- A Wienerschnitzel location I went to uses Oracle/Micros registers with S300s. Everything worked, but also no EMV info on the receipt I got. (It's possible that another receipt printed out with that info but I never received it.) No idea if this is the official setup or if it's something that depends on the franchisee.
Feb 4, 2018, 2:54 pm
#3414
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: New England
Programs: American Gold, Marriott Gold, Hilton Silver
Posts: 5,640
I don't think that they will fix it until after the end of September/October since it still sort of works. (Or if they do, they won't push the update until after then). There are lots of new hardware installations going on in the company, and they don't want the risk of unforeseen issues at stores that get the new hardware. The company has moved away from division-based rollouts in favor of full company standardization (which is in progress and is slated to be complete by the end of October)
Feb 4, 2018, 6:50 pm
#3415
Join Date: May 2005
Location: SEA
Programs: AS; Hyatt Globalist; Hilton Gold; NEXUS
Posts: 979
The Shell station in Waimea, HI (Big Island, not Kauai) has contactless installed at the pump. It's the typical Verifone setup. It failed to work, however, with my iPhone. It read the signal, then the screen read that magnetic strip was not permitted at this time. Swiping the physical card worked fine - EMV was not enabled on the reader.
Feb 4, 2018, 8:47 pm
#3416
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,722
The Shell station in Waimea, HI (Big Island, not Kauai) has contactless installed at the pump. It's the typical Verifone setup. It failed to work, however, with my iPhone. It read the signal, then the screen read that magnetic strip was not permitted at this time. Swiping the physical card worked fine - EMV was not enabled on the reader.
Feb 5, 2018, 12:58 am
#3417
Join Date: May 2005
Location: SEA
Programs: AS; Hyatt Globalist; Hilton Gold; NEXUS
Posts: 979
It was a Visa. Didn't know Shell was having issue with Visa, that's too bad. I don't have a MC, I only carry Visa and AMEX.
Feb 5, 2018, 1:06 am
#3418
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,722
Well only at the pump Visa ctls currently does not work while inside supports all networks as I've only tried 3 of them, V, MC and Amex all work. But I've heard it declines Visa while it sounds like msd cards are disabled at the pump? Shell only supports contactless MSD so that message is really odd, but Amex should work outside as well. It could just be a software issue as the backend supports Visa ctls fine but if the software on the pump is not ready it won't work. I had a BP with Flex Pay IV and nfc declined with a normal "See The Cashier" message which means the software is not up to date enough yet.
Feb 5, 2018, 6:29 pm
#3419
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: NYC
Posts: 557
Just tried using a Chase Visa through Apple Pay at a KFC and got "TAP ERROR, INSERT CARD". The weird part was that the terminal wouldn't let me tap a different card or try again - it just removed the contactless logo from the screen and forced me to insert a card instead.
The transaction was MSD, because there was no notification in Apple Pay for the transaction, so I can't imagine what sort of "error" could have occurred to make the transaction fail before attempting to auth. I've been so disappointed in the utility of contactless unless I go to a place I know I've used it at before. Trying it at new places is a frustrating crapshoot.
The transaction was MSD, because there was no notification in Apple Pay for the transaction, so I can't imagine what sort of "error" could have occurred to make the transaction fail before attempting to auth. I've been so disappointed in the utility of contactless unless I go to a place I know I've used it at before. Trying it at new places is a frustrating crapshoot.
Feb 5, 2018, 7:02 pm
#3420
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,722
Just tried using a Chase Visa through Apple Pay at a KFC and got "TAP ERROR, INSERT CARD". The weird part was that the terminal wouldn't let me tap a different card or try again - it just removed the contactless logo from the screen and forced me to insert a card instead.
The transaction was MSD, because there was no notification in Apple Pay for the transaction, so I can't imagine what sort of "error" could have occurred to make the transaction fail before attempting to auth. I've been so disappointed in the utility of contactless unless I go to a place I know I've used it at before. Trying it at new places is a frustrating crapshoot.
The transaction was MSD, because there was no notification in Apple Pay for the transaction, so I can't imagine what sort of "error" could have occurred to make the transaction fail before attempting to auth. I've been so disappointed in the utility of contactless unless I go to a place I know I've used it at before. Trying it at new places is a frustrating crapshoot.
Kroger Sells C-Stores to U.K.-Based EG Group | CSP Daily News Does this mean these soon to be formally Kroger owned c-stores will soon support both emv and contactless? Currently they are swipe only on NCR Radiant without contactless because of Kroger.