Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
Nov 3, 2017, 6:36 pm
#2521
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
Speaking of which has contactless gotten better with physical contactless cards and Mx915s? I’ve always had trouble with physical contactless cards and MX915s whereas Apple Pay works fine. I think the signal emitting from an Mx915 can be quite weak, but the phone sends a strong enough signal.
Nov 3, 2017, 6:44 pm
#2522
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: SFO
Programs: *G^2, Bonvoyed, NEXUS
Posts: 3,511
Speaking of which has contactless gotten better with physical contactless cards and Mx915s? I’ve always had trouble with physical contactless cards and MX915s whereas Apple Pay works fine. I think the signal emitting from an Mx915 can be quite weak, but the phone sends a strong enough signal.
Nov 3, 2017, 6:48 pm
#2523
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: SFO
Programs: *G^2, Bonvoyed, NEXUS
Posts: 3,511
And even if you assume once per day settlement, travelling pretty much anywhere overseas from North America results in you being 'ahead' in time so when batch settlement is occurring, it might be making whatever daily deadline your issuer has for posting, so you see the transactions quicker.
Nov 3, 2017, 7:22 pm
#2524
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,132
Dick's Sporting Goods has Apple Pay logos at the registers. Didn't get a chance to try though.
Nov 3, 2017, 10:43 pm
#2526
Join Date: Mar 2017
Programs: HHonors, TrueBlue, Delta SkyMiles, Hyatt Discoverist, Starwood Preferred Guest, American Airlines.
Posts: 2,035
Yes and the contactless logo isn't hidden on the backside of the card in the corner. Perhaps AMEX should redesign most of their cards and put them in a logical spot. Contactless on a card should be a well known feature, right in the front center or slightly to the right. The last Hilton I stayed at didn't have customer facing readers but just those swipe ones attached to the monitor, so I wonder if Hilton specifically requested these, or if AMEX will be rolling out contactless as default on re-designed cards.
Nov 4, 2017, 12:16 am
#2527
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Window Seat
Programs: National Executive, HHonors Gold, IHG Platinum, Hyatt Visitor
Posts: 2,495
Speaking of which has contactless gotten better with physical contactless cards and Mx915s? I’ve always had trouble with physical contactless cards and MX915s whereas Apple Pay works fine. I think the signal emitting from an Mx915 can be quite weak, but the phone sends a strong enough signal.
I don't want to be too hard on NCR/Retalix since they have managed to get virtually all of the stores that use their systems, to accept Contactless... unlike IBM/Toshiba...
Since those same grocery stores have upgraded to EMV, this is no longer a problem and the MX915 picks up the Contactless card beautifully on the first pass attempt.
Rite Aid is one that still seems to struggle a bit to pick up the Contactless card but eventually it does.
Nov 4, 2017, 4:08 am
#2528
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
Yes and the contactless logo isn't hidden on the backside of the card in the corner. Perhaps AMEX should redesign most of their cards and put them in a logical spot. Contactless on a card should be a well known feature, right in the front center or slightly to the right. The last Hilton I stayed at didn't have customer facing readers but just those swipe ones attached to the monitor, so I wonder if Hilton specifically requested these, or if AMEX will be rolling out contactless as default on re-designed cards.
Also, I'm not sure contactless is a huge priority for hotels. Even Marriott, who claimed they were rolling out Apple Pay support in the US, doesn't support contactless in the UK (at least at the two that I stayed at recently). Never mind that they apparently haven't moved beyond their pilot hotels in the US.
Nov 4, 2017, 4:20 am
#2529
Join Date: Mar 2017
Programs: HHonors, TrueBlue, Delta SkyMiles, Hyatt Discoverist, Starwood Preferred Guest, American Airlines.
Posts: 2,035
But I'm questioning whether Hilton requested that AMEX issue contactless cards as standard, or if AMEX did it on their own.
Nov 4, 2017, 8:55 am
#2530
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
We don't know for sure what they said to AmEx but in Marriott's case, the Canadian version of their card does have contactless (yet they don't seem to support it at their hotels). That's why I was thinking that it's not too likely that Hilton asked for it.
Nov 4, 2017, 9:04 am
#2531
Join Date: Mar 2017
Programs: HHonors, TrueBlue, Delta SkyMiles, Hyatt Discoverist, Starwood Preferred Guest, American Airlines.
Posts: 2,035
Nov 4, 2017, 10:22 am
#2532
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Canada
Programs: BA Gold (OWE), Star Alliance Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,194
Hilton seem to have contactless enabled in many of their bars/restaurants outside the US though. Many SPG hotels are similar.
Nov 4, 2017, 11:11 am
#2533
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
There's also the whole press release Capital One put out. If they were that afraid of it, I would think that they would have just added it quietly without the fanfare (or just not bothered with contactless cards at all).
Yeah, I didn't get a chance to try eating at the hotel bar/restaurant at either of the Marriotts I went to so they very well could have had contactless too. Maybe next time I stay at one overseas. (Though honestly, I'm kinda warming up to the whole Airbnb idea so I dunno.)
I’m not sure the Canadian version of the card having contactless means much either way. Pretty much every card is contactless in Canada, it would almost be like the card not having a chip.
Hilton seem to have contactless enabled in many of their bars/restaurants outside the US though. Many SPG hotels are similar.
Hilton seem to have contactless enabled in many of their bars/restaurants outside the US though. Many SPG hotels are similar.
Nov 4, 2017, 11:35 am
#2534
Join Date: Mar 2017
Programs: HHonors, TrueBlue, Delta SkyMiles, Hyatt Discoverist, Starwood Preferred Guest, American Airlines.
Posts: 2,035
Capital One's contactless implementation was cowardly. Logo on the back of the card and no mention of it with the card's advertisement, just some lame piece of paper that nobody reads that explains the the logo on the back means it has contactless, but like I've said, I bet most people don't see or read it anyway. It's like they don't want people to know it actually has contactless until after they're approved for it, and then perhaps they hope customers may forget the feature exists because nobody looks at the back of the card unless they're reading the numbers off of it.
I shouldn't really single out C.O, though, AMEX does the same stuff, at least it'll be the case until the new Hilton cards are rolled out. The contactless logo should be visible and advertised where you look at the card most.
Nov 4, 2017, 11:58 am
#2535
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Canada
Programs: BA Gold (OWE), Star Alliance Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,194
There's also the whole press release Capital One put out. If they were that afraid of it, I would think that they would have just added it quietly without the fanfare (or just not bothered with contactless cards at all).
Yeah, I didn't get a chance to try eating at the hotel bar/restaurant at either of the Marriotts I went to so they very well could have had contactless too. Maybe next time I stay at one overseas. (Though honestly, I'm kinda warming up to the whole Airbnb idea so I dunno.)
Yeah, I didn't get a chance to try eating at the hotel bar/restaurant at either of the Marriotts I went to so they very well could have had contactless too. Maybe next time I stay at one overseas. (Though honestly, I'm kinda warming up to the whole Airbnb idea so I dunno.)