Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
Oct 24, 2017, 2:55 pm
#2431
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,592
Apple Pay (Debit MC) failed today at a coffee shop with a Clover Station and customer-facing Mini, error message “TRANSACTION FAILED.” I see the amount in Wallet since it’s EMV contactless, but nothing else. Chip worked fine, albeit as automatic No CVM on MC using the Common AID.
I suspect the problem is that they somehow tripped the anti-tamper sensors. The Mini said “Limited mode - PIN entry disabled” on the present card screen. Maybe PIN entry was required for Apple Pay?
I suspect the problem is that they somehow tripped the anti-tamper sensors. The Mini said “Limited mode - PIN entry disabled” on the present card screen. Maybe PIN entry was required for Apple Pay?
Oct 24, 2017, 2:56 pm
#2432
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
Apple Pay (Debit MC) failed today at a coffee shop with a Clover Station and customer-facing Mini, error message “TRANSACTION FAILED.” I see the amount in Wallet since it’s EMV contactless, but nothing else. Chip worked fine, albeit as automatic No CVM on MC using the Common AID.
I suspect the problem is that they somehow tripped the anti-tamper sensors. The Mini said “Limited mode - PIN entry disabled” on the present card screen. Maybe PIN entry was required for Apple Pay?
I suspect the problem is that they somehow tripped the anti-tamper sensors. The Mini said “Limited mode - PIN entry disabled” on the present card screen. Maybe PIN entry was required for Apple Pay?
Oct 24, 2017, 3:06 pm
#2433
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
Here’s that combination NFC/Qr code reader.
Maybe someone can look it up.
Maybe someone can look it up.
Oct 24, 2017, 3:25 pm
#2434
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,505
Oct 24, 2017, 5:18 pm
#2435
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Programs: Marriott Titanium Elite/Lifetime Titanium, Delta Platinum Medallion, Hertz #1 Gold
Posts: 722
Commuter Rail(LIRR/Metro North) to Subway Only.
I went back to mostly using paper tickets.
Oct 24, 2017, 5:34 pm
#2436
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
Pretty sure it's for this: https://www.amny.com/transit/mta-e-t...ers-1.12006907
Commuter Rail(LIRR/Metro North) to Subway Only.
I went back to mostly using paper tickets.
Commuter Rail(LIRR/Metro North) to Subway Only.
I went back to mostly using paper tickets.
Oct 24, 2017, 6:58 pm
#2437
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,592
Did the tap actually complete with the check mark, or did the phone say “Hold near reader”? If the latter, then that happens on just about any smartcard target.
Oct 25, 2017, 12:53 am
#2438
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,505
Interesting, I think the Chase notification for TfL is showing the (last?) tap-out time (10:10 EDT, aka 15:10 BST), not the actual charge time--despite the push notification being received when the charge actually got sent to them (attached). I figured that for a bank in a supposedly online-only country, they'd not bother looking at most stuff sent over with a payment authorization, but I guess not.
Also, my online account still isn't showing my travel history with the Apple Pay "card" despite supposedly only needing to add the physical card to it. I'll have to play with it some more.
Also, my online account still isn't showing my travel history with the Apple Pay "card" despite supposedly only needing to add the physical card to it. I'll have to play with it some more.
Oct 25, 2017, 1:49 am
#2439
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,537
Interesting, I think the Chase notification for TfL is showing the (last?) tap-out time (10:10 EDT, aka 15:10 BST), not the actual charge time--despite the push notification being received when the charge actually got sent to them (attached). I figured that for a bank in a supposedly online-only country, they'd not bother looking at most stuff sent over with a payment authorization, but I guess not.
Also, my online account still isn't showing my travel history with the Apple Pay "card" despite supposedly only needing to add the physical card to it. I'll have to play with it some more.
Also, my online account still isn't showing my travel history with the Apple Pay "card" despite supposedly only needing to add the physical card to it. I'll have to play with it some more.
Oct 25, 2017, 2:00 am
#2440
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,505
On another note, Pret a Manger says "Verified by Device PIN" on the receipt despite being under Ł30.
Oct 25, 2017, 8:11 am
#2441
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 237
CSR on my Apple Watch works flawlessly on Tfl. But accidentally touched with wrong card when touching out, it's surprisingly easy to swipe the card and change it on the screen.
TFL can't see the Apple Pay version of the card when I wanted to request a refund for the max fare charge, so I have to send them my actual bill and the journeys I took. A pain but oh well, then they needed my SWIFT details to send me the money which is a pain because my bank charges a $30 incoming fee.
TFL can't see the Apple Pay version of the card when I wanted to request a refund for the max fare charge, so I have to send them my actual bill and the journeys I took. A pain but oh well, then they needed my SWIFT details to send me the money which is a pain because my bank charges a $30 incoming fee.
Oct 25, 2017, 8:15 am
#2442
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,505
CSR on my Apple Watch works flawlessly on Tfl. But accidentally touched with wrong card when touching out, it's surprisingly easy to swipe the card and change it on the screen.
TFL can't see the Apple Pay version of the card when I wanted to request a refund for the max fare charge, so I have to send them my actual bill and the journeys I took. A pain but oh well, then they needed my SWIFT details to send me the money which is a pain because my bank charges a $30 incoming fee.
TFL can't see the Apple Pay version of the card when I wanted to request a refund for the max fare charge, so I have to send them my actual bill and the journeys I took. A pain but oh well, then they needed my SWIFT details to send me the money which is a pain because my bank charges a $30 incoming fee.
Also, I wonder if the refund issue means that we should still recommend physical contactless cards/Oyster over AP for Americans when possible.
Oct 25, 2017, 10:30 am
#2443
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Programs: Marriott Titanium Elite/Lifetime Titanium, Delta Platinum Medallion, Hertz #1 Gold
Posts: 722
Interesting, I think the Chase notification for TfL is showing the (last?) tap-out time (10:10 EDT, aka 15:10 BST), not the actual charge time--despite the push notification being received when the charge actually got sent to them (attached). I figured that for a bank in a supposedly online-only country, they'd not bother looking at most stuff sent over with a payment authorization, but I guess not.
Also, my online account still isn't showing my travel history with the Apple Pay "card" despite supposedly only needing to add the physical card to it. I'll have to play with it some more.
Also, my online account still isn't showing my travel history with the Apple Pay "card" despite supposedly only needing to add the physical card to it. I'll have to play with it some more.
I got a "Seek Assistance" error on one reader today while tapping out, but another worked okay. I'm not sure if that's a fluke or if I should be concerned.
Also, I wonder if the refund issue means that we should still recommend physical contactless cards/Oyster over AP for Americans when possible.
Also, I wonder if the refund issue means that we should still recommend physical contactless cards/Oyster over AP for Americans when possible.
I wonder if the added US Visa Card support was a hack to resolve the issue with american cards? Last time I was in London(exactly a year ago) I was using my capital one 360 debit card(mastercard) in apple pay. No issues with the Journey history on the TFL site.
Oct 25, 2017, 10:32 am
#2444
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Programs: Marriott Titanium Elite/Lifetime Titanium, Delta Platinum Medallion, Hertz #1 Gold
Posts: 722
Interesting, I think the Chase notification for TfL is showing the (last?) tap-out time (10:10 EDT, aka 15:10 BST), not the actual charge time--despite the push notification being received when the charge actually got sent to them (attached). I figured that for a bank in a supposedly online-only country, they'd not bother looking at most stuff sent over with a payment authorization, but I guess not.
Also, my online account still isn't showing my travel history with the Apple Pay "card" despite supposedly only needing to add the physical card to it. I'll have to play with it some more.
Also, my online account still isn't showing my travel history with the Apple Pay "card" despite supposedly only needing to add the physical card to it. I'll have to play with it some more.
Oct 25, 2017, 10:58 am
#2445
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 237
I got a "Seek Assistance" error on one reader today while tapping out, but another worked okay. I'm not sure if that's a fluke or if I should be concerned.
Also, I wonder if the refund issue means that we should still recommend physical contactless cards/Oyster over AP for Americans when possible.
Also, I wonder if the refund issue means that we should still recommend physical contactless cards/Oyster over AP for Americans when possible.