Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
Apr 25, 2017, 9:02 am
#827
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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Location: San Diego, CA
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Apr 25, 2017, 9:06 am
#828
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,592
tmiw gave more detail, but it's basically QR code to charge your credit card directly. They're supposed to scan it as Credit tender, but I'm guessing the problems at Starbucks stem from most cashiers assuming you're using a Starbucks Card and choosing that instead. The guy had to scan his phone like three times before it went through. Then again, it was the same barista on the till that gave me hassle with Apple Pay.
Apr 25, 2017, 9:45 am
#829
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,537
tmiw gave more detail, but it's basically QR code to charge your credit card directly. They're supposed to scan it as Credit tender, but I'm guessing the problems at Starbucks stem from most cashiers assuming you're using a Starbucks Card and choosing that instead. The guy had to scan his phone like three times before it went through. Then again, it was the same barista on the till that gave me hassle with Apple Pay.
Apr 25, 2017, 9:54 am
#830
Join Date: Mar 2017
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Apple Pay was released almost 3 years ago and cashiers still don't know how to instruct a customer/know how to initiate that type of transaction. You would think this training would happen after the merchant turns on NFC.
Apr 25, 2017, 9:55 am
#831
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,059
No issues with Android Pay in San Jose, but I imagine cashiers are used to mobile payments around here. I've never seen Chase Pay in use in the wild, but I haven't been to a Best Buy in awhile, and, as you said, most people use a Starbucks Card when paying by phone. I could see the confusion as the cashier might assume anyone scanning a barcode with a phone is using a Starbucks Card.
Apr 25, 2017, 10:24 am
#832
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,592
It's Starbucks. I don't expect them to give their store employees enough training; either they try to charge me for literally a splash of almondmilk or they make me pay full price to refill my coffee. I just say $x reload, scan my Sbux Card, say credit, and tap. It's easy to ignore their remarks on Apple Pay as long as it doesn't impede the transaction, because I quite frankly don't care enough.
Last edited by emmanuel_t; Apr 25, 2017 at 10:34 am
Apr 25, 2017, 10:35 am
#833
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Bay Area
Programs: DL SM, UA MP.
Posts: 12,729
It was a few months ago. Nowadays, about half of them ask "is that 'iPay' or whatever?" but I don't really have trouble. A bigger issue, honestly, is rewards refills, with almost every other barista denying them and giving attitude. Aside from the policy explicitly allowing me to "refill" even a Frappuccino with tea or filter, it doesn't make sense for them to discourage me from spending more. My ultimate solution was to start drinking cold brew or filter almost exclusively instead of lattes. I have better things to do with my time than complain for every store where I meet a clueless and rude barista, and I show that by not giving Starbucks as much money per order since they can't maintain their end of the deal consistently.
It's Starbucks. I don't expect them to give their store employees enough training; either they try to charge me for literally a splash of almondmilk or they make me pay full price to refill my coffee. I just say $x reload, scan my Sbux Card, say credit, and tap. It's easy to ignore their remarks on Apple Pay as long as it doesn't impede the transaction, because I quite frankly don't care enough.
It's Starbucks. I don't expect them to give their store employees enough training; either they try to charge me for literally a splash of almondmilk or they make me pay full price to refill my coffee. I just say $x reload, scan my Sbux Card, say credit, and tap. It's easy to ignore their remarks on Apple Pay as long as it doesn't impede the transaction, because I quite frankly don't care enough.
Better coffee too.
Apr 25, 2017, 11:04 am
#835
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2006
Location: PMD
Programs: UA*G, NW, AA-G. WR-P, HH-G, IHG-S, ALL. TT-GE.
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Now I realize I can add my Ally debit (which is a MC) to Apple Pay. Would that work with TfL? Also, how many transactions would a day generate? (One? Multiple?) I can only have 6 a month, and i'll probably use the ATM a couple times already.
Apr 25, 2017, 1:07 pm
#836
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 489
Everything about Panera bread is bleh. Avoid them and go to Boudin instead. Way better food and bread and the price is about the same.
Apr 25, 2017, 1:19 pm
#837
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,592
It would work. However, I would recommend just buying an Oyster (transit card) with your credit card and getting the remaining balance refunded if you wish.
Last edited by emmanuel_t; Apr 25, 2017 at 2:01 pm
Apr 25, 2017, 1:23 pm
#838
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
Went to a locally owned burger shop. He hands the terminal over for PINs, and contactless was no problem. Still not ideal, but better than them not knowing how to do it. They use the FD410 wireless terminal.
They also do debit.
They also do debit.
Apr 25, 2017, 1:33 pm
#839
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
I'm almost definitely sure using the physical contactless card results in faster transaction times than Apple Pay with AmEx now. Tried using Apple Pay at IKEA today and their FD130 took something like 5 seconds to start printing the receipt. (Haven't tried the physical card there yet.) Thoughts?
Apr 25, 2017, 5:53 pm
#840
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: NJ, USA
Posts: 470
A new grocery store (Sprout Marketplace) opened recently nearby and despite having the contactless symbol on the terminal screen it's disabled and doesn't work 
Normally it's the other way around - ShopRite accepts contactless but doesn't advertise the fact at all.
Normally it's the other way around - ShopRite accepts contactless but doesn't advertise the fact at all.