Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
May 8, 2017, 3:57 pm
#1007
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* "Far" future because I still see new businesses opening around here that only support swiping. I don't think we can start thinking about the magstripe going away until 100% of new businesses get at least EMV from the start.
May 8, 2017, 5:16 pm
#1008
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,537
Actually, would it be possible for Samsung to implement some geolocation based stuff in software to prevent NFC from being used if the phone/watch is at a location that's "problematic" (such as CVS)? Or maybe even not bother using NFC at all depending on the country the phone's operating in.
May 9, 2017, 9:15 am
#1009
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,592
I saw the same person use Chase Pay at Starbucks again. The processing status actually shows on the PIN pad after scanning the Chase Pay barcode. I wonder if the PIN pad is talking to the scanner directly.
May 9, 2017, 9:35 am
#1010
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,250
Chase Pay and other QR Code systems such as Walmart Pay all still make use and depend on the PIN pad to do the processing. Which is why they can still "tout them as secure"....still not ideal however.
May 9, 2017, 9:41 am
#1011
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Speaking of QR codes, Alipay's rolling out in the US: https://www.bloomberg.com/gadfly/art...ust-help-apple
May 9, 2017, 9:58 am
#1012
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,592
The difference between [Merchant] Pay and Chase Pay is that Chase Pay is somewhat open-loop. IIRC, it's like EMV contactless as a barcode. The card number, expiry, and whatnot are all there. At least with CVS Pay, there's no interaction with the PIN pad. After the cashier scans your extracare+Pay barcode from the CVS app, your phone prompts you for card selection and Touch ID/PIN. Admittedly, I don't know if the PIN pad receives a card token from the back end or what, but I think it may have to do partly with integrated vs. semi-integrated payments.
May 10, 2017, 3:29 am
#1013
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The difference between [Merchant] Pay and Chase Pay is that Chase Pay is somewhat open-loop. IIRC, it's like EMV contactless as a barcode. The card number, expiry, and whatnot are all there. At least with CVS Pay, there's no interaction with the PIN pad. After the cashier scans your extracare+Pay barcode from the CVS app, your phone prompts you for card selection and Touch ID/PIN. Admittedly, I don't know if the PIN pad receives a card token from the back end or what, but I think it may have to do partly with integrated vs. semi-integrated payments.
May 10, 2017, 7:25 pm
#1014
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,722
Alright today I went to a former Commander Mobil station today now called Super C is same station where I first saw Flex Pay IV with NFC. But these former Mobil's with Commander are different from the regular Super C's as they don't use Passport without chip or nfc enabled or use Encore 700 S pumps. What makes these former Mobil stations interesting is that Super C bought it from the previous owners upgraded the MX860 to MX915 and added chip to the Commander system and yes NFC(MSD only) is still enabled of course, but only these locations support either. I also went to a Mobil Station with Commander and Visa Android Pay worked great and did not ask for the last digits of the card and chip was enabled which worked as well. I then went to a Sinclair with Gilbarco Passport with EMV and NFC enabled inside also msd only but they have FlexPay IV with the NFC reader but it said this: http://imgur.com/cMeRVSR and here is the full pic of the pump: http://imgur.com/OCY2thb The cashier said that she would tell the tech guy to take a look at it. Though they even had all the Apple/Android Pay stickers on the door and on the iSC250's. ^
May 10, 2017, 9:32 pm
#1015
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,250
Alright today I went to a former Commander Mobil station today now called Super C is same station where I first saw Flex Pay IV with NFC. But these former Mobil's with Commander are different from the regular Super C's as they don't use Passport without chip or nfc enabled or use Encore 700 S pumps. What makes these former Mobil stations interesting is that Super C bought it from the previous owners upgraded the MX860 to MX915 and added chip to the Commander system and yes NFC(MSD only) is still enabled of course, but only these locations support either. I also went to a Mobil Station with Commander and Visa Android Pay worked great and did not ask for the last digits of the card and chip was enabled which worked as well. I then went to a Sinclair with Gilbarco Passport with EMV and NFC enabled inside also msd only but they have FlexPay IV with the NFC reader but it said this: http://imgur.com/cMeRVSR and here is the full pic of the pump: http://imgur.com/OCY2thb The cashier said that she would tell the tech guy to take a look at it. Though they even had all the Apple/Android Pay stickers on the door and on the iSC250's. ^
May 10, 2017, 10:54 pm
#1016
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Barons Market doesn't like physical AmEx contactless very much on their L5300s; it declined my card after the credit/debit/EBT prompt. Swiping worked, however. No EMV, unlike Jimbo's Naturally (which uses the same equipment).
Also, Sprouts still doesn't have EMV contactless.
Not sure that means much. I don't remember the green light appearing though.
Also, Sprouts still doesn't have EMV contactless.
Not sure that means much. I don't remember the green light appearing though.
May 11, 2017, 5:04 am
#1017
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,592
Barons Market doesn't like physical AmEx contactless very much on their L5300s; it declined my card after the credit/debit/EBT prompt. Swiping worked, however. No EMV, unlike Jimbo's Naturally (which uses the same equipment).
Also, Sprouts still doesn't have EMV contactless.
Not sure that means much. I don't remember the green light appearing though.
Also, Sprouts still doesn't have EMV contactless.
Not sure that means much. I don't remember the green light appearing though.
I recall seeing an EMV card on-screen at the pump once, but it didn't mean anything. EMV software won't be out for some time anyway.
May 11, 2017, 1:33 pm
#1018
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Here's a receipt from another business with the elo/iCMP combo. The "other" bit is interesting due to actually having used Apple Pay. (MSD only, unfortunately, even with Visa.)
I've also been observing other people paying while I have been waiting for my order and apparently the iCMP seems pretty unreliable. I even saw one person attempt to use EMV but switched to cash. Maybe they should have gone with one of the wired terminals instead?
I've also been observing other people paying while I have been waiting for my order and apparently the iCMP seems pretty unreliable. I even saw one person attempt to use EMV but switched to cash. Maybe they should have gone with one of the wired terminals instead?
May 11, 2017, 3:38 pm
#1019
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,250
Here's a receipt from another business with the elo/iCMP combo. The "other" bit is interesting due to actually having used Apple Pay. (MSD only, unfortunately, even with Visa.)
I've also been observing other people paying while I have been waiting for my order and apparently the iCMP seems pretty unreliable. I even saw one person attempt to use EMV but switched to cash. Maybe they should have gone with one of the wired terminals instead?
I've also been observing other people paying while I have been waiting for my order and apparently the iCMP seems pretty unreliable. I even saw one person attempt to use EMV but switched to cash. Maybe they should have gone with one of the wired terminals instead?
May 11, 2017, 5:39 pm
#1020
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