Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
May 8, 2017, 9:11 am
#991
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 600
This kind of makes sense. CVS may be able to program to put up "not allowed" message for contactless payment. But MST (e.g., Samsung pay) works because a phone generates intensified magnetic pulse containing a credit card information and penetrates it through the card reader aperture. So for the card reader perspective, it just receives the magnetic pulse of the credit card in the same way a person swipes the credit card.
I wonder how CVS is able to distinguish between true card swipe and Samsung pay. To the card reader, both are the same and if CVS turns off the magnetic strip reader capability of the card reader, then it means nobody can use a credit card to purchase items at CVS.
May 8, 2017, 9:32 am
#992
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SAN
Posts: 1,171
My reading of this discussion is that they don't distinguish. Because CVS has the NFC function enabled, the Samsung phone senses that and tries to use NFC rather than MST. If you could force the phone to use MST then it should go through at CVS.
May 8, 2017, 9:35 am
#993
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
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You have to disable NFC, and I've read mixed reports of it working/not working. It also depends where you are. The cashiers in the Bay Area are all ready to pounce on you for attempting a contactless payment. "We don't accept Apple Pay!"
A colleague with Samsung Pay tried and wasn't able to get the payment to go through, but our most recent data point was from a year ago.
A colleague with Samsung Pay tried and wasn't able to get the payment to go through, but our most recent data point was from a year ago.
May 8, 2017, 10:13 am
#994
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 600
This makes more sense now. Thank you for clarifying this up. Now it is a matter of disabling NFC function on Samsung phone such that it does not disturb a MST function of a Samsung phone.
why doesn't CVS eliminate an NFC reader if they don't intent to accept contactless payments? such an annoying company.
May 8, 2017, 10:24 am
#995
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,592
This makes more sense now. Thank you for clarifying this up. Now it is a matter of disabling NFC function on Samsung phone such that it does not disturb a MST function of a Samsung phone.
why doesn't CVS eliminate an NFC reader if they don't intent to accept contactless payments? such an annoying company.
why doesn't CVS eliminate an NFC reader if they don't intent to accept contactless payments? such an annoying company.
May 8, 2017, 12:39 pm
#996
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,537
This makes more sense now. Thank you for clarifying this up. Now it is a matter of disabling NFC function on Samsung phone such that it does not disturb a MST function of a Samsung phone.
why doesn't CVS eliminate an NFC reader if they don't intent to accept contactless payments? such an annoying company.
why doesn't CVS eliminate an NFC reader if they don't intent to accept contactless payments? such an annoying company.
May 8, 2017, 12:46 pm
#997
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,592
Verizon upgraded to MX925 from MX860 CL. The idle screen is an advert for Android Pay. Speaking of which, their kiosks (with unattended-style card readers and PIN entry) still don't have contactless enabled. They have the contactless terminal installed, but nothing lights up after choosing tender.
May 8, 2017, 2:33 pm
#998
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Isn't this against the card network rules, though?
May 8, 2017, 2:48 pm
#999
Join Date: Mar 2017
Programs: HHonors, TrueBlue, Delta SkyMiles, Hyatt Discoverist, Starwood Preferred Guest, American Airlines.
Posts: 2,035
This kind of makes sense. CVS may be able to program to put up "not allowed" message for contactless payment. But MST (e.g., Samsung pay) works because a phone generates intensified magnetic pulse containing a credit card information and penetrates it through the card reader aperture. So for the card reader perspective, it just receives the magnetic pulse of the credit card in the same way a person swipes the credit card.
I wonder how CVS is able to distinguish between true card swipe and Samsung pay. To the card reader, both are the same and if CVS turns off the magnetic strip reader capability of the card reader, then it means nobody can use a credit card to purchase items at CVS.
I wonder how CVS is able to distinguish between true card swipe and Samsung pay. To the card reader, both are the same and if CVS turns off the magnetic strip reader capability of the card reader, then it means nobody can use a credit card to purchase items at CVS.
If CVS did turn off magstripe and some buffoon tried to swipe their non-chipped card, I wouldn't feel sorry for them in the slightest. Perhaps it would be a wakeup call to upgrade their card. It takes 5 minutes to do it either online or over the phone... Five minutes in the year and 7 months ago the liability shift happened.
Last edited by mikesyr18; May 8, 2017 at 2:56 pm
May 8, 2017, 2:50 pm
#1000
Join Date: Mar 2017
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Posts: 2,035
All one has to do is put the phone near the magstripe reader instead of near the NFC detector. I've used McDonald's terminals via MST rather than NFC before.
May 8, 2017, 2:52 pm
#1001
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,592
You already mentioned that, and that it was with an external-contactless device. With integrated contactless, the NFC signal will be in range even if using MST, and the phone will prefer NFC over MST.
May 8, 2017, 2:57 pm
#1002
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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Actually, would it be possible for Samsung to implement some geolocation based stuff in software to prevent NFC from being used if the phone/watch is at a location that's "problematic" (such as CVS)? Or maybe even not bother using NFC at all depending on the country the phone's operating in.
May 8, 2017, 3:17 pm
#1003
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
Normal people could still use their card, because they have a chip in theirs.
If CVS did turn off magstripe and some buffoon tried to swipe their non-chipped card, I wouldn't feel sorry for them in the slightest. Perhaps it would be a wakeup call to upgrade their card. It takes 5 minutes to do it either online or over the phone... Five minutes in the year and 7 months ago the liability shift happened.
If CVS did turn off magstripe and some buffoon tried to swipe their non-chipped card, I wouldn't feel sorry for them in the slightest. Perhaps it would be a wakeup call to upgrade their card. It takes 5 minutes to do it either online or over the phone... Five minutes in the year and 7 months ago the liability shift happened.
May 8, 2017, 3:25 pm
#1004
Join Date: Mar 2017
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Incorrect. The very first time I used Samsung Pay I had some nervous reaction because the NFC wasn't being picked up as I liked. I used MST instead and it was near instant. This was on a VeriFone Mx925 at Wegmans, but before they turned on chip... Their NFC is much faster now, almost instant.
May 8, 2017, 3:27 pm
#1005
Join Date: Mar 2017
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