Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
Aug 20, 2020, 12:26 pm
#8671
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,505
They didn't seem to specifically check whether the card was debit or credit before inserting, so they may not be doing that anymore. I was mainly going off of a lack of PIN prompt in concluding that the purchase went out over Visa (as I wasn't the one doing the purchase), though as mentioned, that's not a 100% guarantee anymore.
Aug 20, 2020, 12:45 pm
#8672
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: SEA/ATL
Posts: 61
My closest Daiso has had contactless disabled since the beginning of the year. At first, it had a software decline saying something like 'cless not allowed' when tapping. But last month, the green light was off and the word tap and the contactless icon were no longer displayed on the terminal screen.
Aug 20, 2020, 6:27 pm
#8673
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,505
Seems that California is thinking of rolling out some sort of statewide open loop payments system for transit: https://dot.ca.gov/-/media/dot-media/documents/cal-itp/final-cal-itp-market-sounding-market-response-summary-103119b-a11y.pdf:
However, there are barriers as well:
I didn't think the existing open loop systems actually used EMV for their own cards, though. EMV was mainly for the people who wanted to use their credit or debit cards without having to buy a card, unless I'm missing something?
BTW, some additional "soundings" on other aspects of transit are here (which includes the one linked above).
Assumption 4: Platforms should support open loop payments and allow customers to pay for a service with a mechanism that can be used anywhere payments are accepted.
● Open loop payment would allow for a more seamless journey between different systems.
● Open loop payment would be compatible with mobile solutions (e.g., mobile wallets such as Apple Pay, Google Pay or Samsung Pay).
Customers using open loop payments would be less reliant on fare vending machines to purchase or reload fare media.
● With open loop payments, new riders or visitors to California could use their own payment media, and the correct fare could be taken with no residual value left on a card or secondary account once a trip is complete.
● Open loop payment would be useful for agencies that do not already have a payment gateway.
● Open loop payment could be expanded to non-public transportation payments.
● Open loop payment would allow for a more seamless journey between different systems.
● Open loop payment would be compatible with mobile solutions (e.g., mobile wallets such as Apple Pay, Google Pay or Samsung Pay).
Customers using open loop payments would be less reliant on fare vending machines to purchase or reload fare media.
● With open loop payments, new riders or visitors to California could use their own payment media, and the correct fare could be taken with no residual value left on a card or secondary account once a trip is complete.
● Open loop payment would be useful for agencies that do not already have a payment gateway.
● Open loop payment could be expanded to non-public transportation payments.
5.3 Promote EMV as a technology approach for statewide interoperability
The contactless EMV standard allows for open loop payments in transit using customers’ regular credit, debit and prepaid cards (and mobile payments) as well as closed loop contactless EMV cards. Overall, the majority of respondents agreed that contactless EMV payments, on the mid-term, would be the most likely statewide common payment method, and that the contactless EMV technology stack underlying these bank cards could be leveraged to accept closed loop EMV-compliant cards. However, respondents with operational experience in open loop acceptance in transit do point out that there are currently several limiting factors to successfully deploying EMV technology statewide:
• The cost of processing financial payment transactions may increase due to the fixed dollar component in the interchange fees.
• The share of unbanked/underbanked transit patrons in most regions is very high, limiting the benefits of open loop payments to a limited
group of customers: those who do not currently use transit.
• There are licensing costs associated with deploying EMV-compatible cards, decreasing the apparent attractiveness of EMV-compatible
closed loop cards in relation to the existing closed loop card technologies.
The contactless EMV standard allows for open loop payments in transit using customers’ regular credit, debit and prepaid cards (and mobile payments) as well as closed loop contactless EMV cards. Overall, the majority of respondents agreed that contactless EMV payments, on the mid-term, would be the most likely statewide common payment method, and that the contactless EMV technology stack underlying these bank cards could be leveraged to accept closed loop EMV-compliant cards. However, respondents with operational experience in open loop acceptance in transit do point out that there are currently several limiting factors to successfully deploying EMV technology statewide:
• The cost of processing financial payment transactions may increase due to the fixed dollar component in the interchange fees.
• The share of unbanked/underbanked transit patrons in most regions is very high, limiting the benefits of open loop payments to a limited
group of customers: those who do not currently use transit.
• There are licensing costs associated with deploying EMV-compatible cards, decreasing the apparent attractiveness of EMV-compatible
closed loop cards in relation to the existing closed loop card technologies.
BTW, some additional "soundings" on other aspects of transit are here (which includes the one linked above).
Aug 22, 2020, 9:51 am
#8674
Join Date: Oct 2007
Programs: AA, WN, UA, Bonvoy, Hertz
Posts: 2,491
BofA update
I did get an email recently for a one click invitation to request a contactless card for my credit card with them. I had never asked for one prior, and my current card doesn't expire anytime soon. However, I do use a mobile wallet, so they can see that aspect.
The good news is we are finally beyond the initial regions where it was offered. So, watch for an email.
The good news is we are finally beyond the initial regions where it was offered. So, watch for an email.
Aug 22, 2020, 1:16 pm
#8675
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Livonia, MI
Posts: 197
I did get an email recently for a one click invitation to request a contactless card for my credit card with them. I had never asked for one prior, and my current card doesn't expire anytime soon. However, I do use a mobile wallet, so they can see that aspect.
The good news is we are finally beyond the initial regions where it was offered. So, watch for an email.
The good news is we are finally beyond the initial regions where it was offered. So, watch for an email.
Aug 22, 2020, 4:21 pm
#8676
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,505
I did get an email recently for a one click invitation to request a contactless card for my credit card with them. I had never asked for one prior, and my current card doesn't expire anytime soon. However, I do use a mobile wallet, so they can see that aspect.
The good news is we are finally beyond the initial regions where it was offered. So, watch for an email.
The good news is we are finally beyond the initial regions where it was offered. So, watch for an email.
Aug 22, 2020, 8:05 pm
#8677
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,505
My local Trader Joe's now has new NCR registers. Consequently the receipt changed to no longer show anything remotely resembling EMV info:
Might need to go back and confirm they're still running contactless as EMV.
Might need to go back and confirm they're still running contactless as EMV.
Aug 22, 2020, 11:15 pm
#8678
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Window Seat
Programs: National Executive, HHonors Gold, IHG Platinum, Hyatt Visitor
Posts: 2,495
I finally found a Maverik with EMV at the pump. This Maverik has Wayne pumps and previously had an in-pump NFC reader and the typical Wayne EMV reader (like Kroger/Safeway use). Now the pump tore that stuff out and installed a MAGTEK card reader, keypad which is like an angled keyboard, and MAGTEK NFC reader. I have not seen this gas pump equipment before.
Oddly the other area Maveriks all use Gilbarco pumps and have just recently torn the guts out of the card readers and installed new Verifone EMV readers and Verifone NFC readers. So not sure why this site went with MAGTEK. I have not been to this MAGTEK site in over a year so I have no clue how long they've been running this system maybe it has been in place a while.
The EMV reads the card quickly, after about 3 seconds, and goes into a different font/background while doing so on the screen. Then it releases the card. Then it goes back to the screen's standard (idle) font and background and asks for loyalty card. Then it asks for zip code. So again Maverik has gone around the typical EMV process and patched on a zip code prompt at the end after the EMV process is done. Pathetic and should be ended.
The EMV Contactless works the same as the old MSD Contactless worked (no zip code prompt).
Receipts show only AID and no other EMV information.
Oddly the other area Maveriks all use Gilbarco pumps and have just recently torn the guts out of the card readers and installed new Verifone EMV readers and Verifone NFC readers. So not sure why this site went with MAGTEK. I have not been to this MAGTEK site in over a year so I have no clue how long they've been running this system maybe it has been in place a while.
The EMV reads the card quickly, after about 3 seconds, and goes into a different font/background while doing so on the screen. Then it releases the card. Then it goes back to the screen's standard (idle) font and background and asks for loyalty card. Then it asks for zip code. So again Maverik has gone around the typical EMV process and patched on a zip code prompt at the end after the EMV process is done. Pathetic and should be ended.
The EMV Contactless works the same as the old MSD Contactless worked (no zip code prompt).
Receipts show only AID and no other EMV information.
Aug 23, 2020, 10:20 pm
#8679
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,722
I finally found a Maverik with EMV at the pump. This Maverik has Wayne pumps and previously had an in-pump NFC reader and the typical Wayne EMV reader (like Kroger/Safeway use). Now the pump tore that stuff out and installed a MAGTEK card reader, keypad which is like an angled keyboard, and MAGTEK NFC reader. I have not seen this gas pump equipment before.
Oddly the other area Maveriks all use Gilbarco pumps and have just recently torn the guts out of the card readers and installed new Verifone EMV readers and Verifone NFC readers. So not sure why this site went with MAGTEK. I have not been to this MAGTEK site in over a year so I have no clue how long they've been running this system maybe it has been in place a while.
The EMV reads the card quickly, after about 3 seconds, and goes into a different font/background while doing so on the screen. Then it releases the card. Then it goes back to the screen's standard (idle) font and background and asks for loyalty card. Then it asks for zip code. So again Maverik has gone around the typical EMV process and patched on a zip code prompt at the end after the EMV process is done. Pathetic and should be ended.
The EMV Contactless works the same as the old MSD Contactless worked (no zip code prompt).
Receipts show only AID and no other EMV information.
Oddly the other area Maveriks all use Gilbarco pumps and have just recently torn the guts out of the card readers and installed new Verifone EMV readers and Verifone NFC readers. So not sure why this site went with MAGTEK. I have not been to this MAGTEK site in over a year so I have no clue how long they've been running this system maybe it has been in place a while.
The EMV reads the card quickly, after about 3 seconds, and goes into a different font/background while doing so on the screen. Then it releases the card. Then it goes back to the screen's standard (idle) font and background and asks for loyalty card. Then it asks for zip code. So again Maverik has gone around the typical EMV process and patched on a zip code prompt at the end after the EMV process is done. Pathetic and should be ended.
The EMV Contactless works the same as the old MSD Contactless worked (no zip code prompt).
Receipts show only AID and no other EMV information.
Aug 24, 2020, 2:21 pm
#8680
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
Well I’m starting to see some progress with tap to pay at shell stations. All the ones in my area now have this sticker.
also I wanted to add my Panda Expresses all have Apple Pay now. MX915
also I wanted to add my Panda Expresses all have Apple Pay now. MX915
Last edited by RedLight2015; Aug 24, 2020 at 2:36 pm
Aug 24, 2020, 2:45 pm
#8681
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,722
I wonder if Panda Express has finally started to add EMV and contactless to all locations? I have asked them on Twitter as they have responded before.
Aug 24, 2020, 3:57 pm
#8682
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,505
Aug 25, 2020, 4:04 am
#8683
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,056
I went to another Taco Bell location that is still handling the payment card. The cashier handed the food, and everything was like normal with the exception of the sticker to seal the paper bag. Only one location nearby uses the plastic bins to hand the food over to the driver.
Aug 25, 2020, 2:27 pm
#8684
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 137
I went to another Taco Bell location that is still handling the payment card. The cashier handed the food, and everything was like normal with the exception of the sticker to seal the paper bag. Only one location nearby uses the plastic bins to hand the food over to the driver.
Aug 25, 2020, 6:16 pm
#8685
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,722
From post #5381 (mine) where I shared the internal update memo:
So, PIN bypass is not allowed at all regardless of the buttons pressed.
So, PIN bypass is not allowed at all regardless of the buttons pressed.
I tested a Visa debit card via Google Pay at Safeway today and it said enter pin or press enter for credit. I pressed enter so pin bypass is now allowed.
Last edited by scibot; Aug 25, 2020 at 6:44 pm